TRS22 PE the ecstasy and agony

amigacooke said:
When a new retail version came out, I used to feel the pressure to get hold of the latest and greatest (at least at the point of release). Now it appears it's N3V policy to hold back a feature back from the retail version (in this case HD terrain) to differentiate that product from Trainz+. So that pressure is largely gone. My immediate reaction is to wait, either for a discounted retail version, or a regional TRS22 PE version (also ideally discounted) :)

As a retail version buyer I can at no time keep up with the front runners, so why bother to try. Like Weevil, I'm disincentivized.
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See my post above. Why bother scrambling any more. It's not worth it because maybe in the future we'll see the new-old features.
 
JCitron said:
It does, but then again maybe it'll force some necessary changes. Honestly, I feel the product line break out is not only just confusing, but also is like a class-structure. I'm lucky I can afford Plus right now, but what happens in the future should my government decide that us retirees and disabled aren't worth a penny and cut our benefits? I won't be able to afford the luxury and will lose any work I've done on my routes while using Plus. I'm not being sarcastic here; I'm serious. With inflation and the winter fuel prices skyrocketing, that extra bit we come up with annually or monthly can add up pretty quick and be better put elsewhere where it's needed. Priorities are priorities especially when it comes to living.

The code base they use has all the features embedded so that based on subscription level it's your user account that turns these on. Instead of doing that, N3V should offer either a subscription version or a full version of everything to everyone. The price may be high, but it is what it is since most games these days are in the same ballpark. Instead of turning on the features based on subscription, the user can pick and choose which features he/she wants by choosing the level of the program.

There could be an "Easy Mode". This has Classic Surveyor only, access to the DLS and everything else.
"Advance Mode" has all features enabled just like Plus does, and finally there's Driver-only mode.

Driver-only mode. There can be a simple session editor and access to the DLS but nothing complex as we have now. This is great for beginners and for those who just want to drive trains. There are many new users who come into the forums thoroughly confused and overwhelmed. Unlike the rest of us who have weathered the advancements since the early days, these people in many instances are walking into a minefield of advanced features. We see this day in and day out with posts with "Help! I don't know how to do this, or all I wanted to do is drive trains." People shouldn't need a Bachelor's or Master's degree in Computer Science and Engineering to run a train simulator. Games are supposed to be fun and not work.

The advantages of this are there are fewer support requests from users, the product skew is easier to manage and overall, less confusion even from long time users.
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Good post John. Totally agree.
 
Hi All
Just to confirm a few things.

1) TrainzPlus/TrainzPlus Gold have, since the gold subscription was first announced, these receive new features/functions before they are included in a retail version of Trainz. As in, subscribers get early access to features that would be included in a retail release later on. Previously, these would simply not have been accessible till the next retail release.

2) In regards to HD Terrain, the 'TrainzPlus beta' patch stream is not necessary. This feature is now fully released, and is included in the latest TrainzPlus official update, on the 'TrainzPlus' stream. The 'TrainzPlus Beta' stream is, as the name suggests, used to access beta test versions of TrainzPlus, the current beta test beingfor the next TrainzPlus update with the Trainz Living Railroad feature.

3) We have 4 'current' versions of Trainz available right now, including betas.

Trainz Railroad Simulator 2022
Trainz Railroad Simulator 2022 Platinum Edition
TrainzPlus
TrainzPlus Beta (the latest beta being for the Trainz Living Railroad feature).

Regards
 
Good Afternoon @JAGG
Routes/content are fully compatible between all 3 release versions (TRS22, TRS22PE, and TrainzPlus).

HD Terrain routes can be loaded in TRS22 and TRS22PE, however would need to be converted back to 5m or 10m grid for terrain and ground textures to be able to be edited in these versions. Other Surveyor tools can still be used on these routes (ie moving/adding buildings, etc).

As always, routes created in the latest beta test version aren't guaranteed to work in previous versions.

Regards
 
JCitron said:
It does, but then again maybe it'll force some necessary changes. Honestly, I feel the product line break out is not only just confusing, but also is like a class-structure. I'm lucky I can afford Plus right now, but what happens in the future should my government decide that us retirees and disabled aren't worth a penny and cut our benefits? I won't be able to afford the luxury and will lose any work I've done on my routes while using Plus. I'm not being sarcastic here; I'm serious. With inflation and the winter fuel prices skyrocketing, that extra bit we come up with annually or monthly can add up pretty quick and be better put elsewhere where it's needed. Priorities are priorities especially when it comes to living.

The code base they use has all the features embedded so that based on subscription level it's your user account that turns these on. Instead of doing that, N3V should offer either a subscription version or a full version of everything to everyone. The price may be high, but it is what it is since most games these days are in the same ballpark. Instead of turning on the features based on subscription, the user can pick and choose which features he/she wants by choosing the level of the program.

There could be an "Easy Mode". This has Classic Surveyor only, access to the DLS and everything else.
"Advance Mode" has all features enabled just like Plus does, and finally there's Driver-only mode.

Driver-only mode. There can be a simple session editor and access to the DLS but nothing complex as we have now. This is great for beginners and for those who just want to drive trains. There are many new users who come into the forums thoroughly confused and overwhelmed. Unlike the rest of us who have weathered the advancements since the early days, these people in many instances are walking into a minefield of advanced features. We see this day in and day out with posts with "Help! I don't know how to do this, or all I wanted to do is drive trains." People shouldn't need a Bachelor's or Master's degree in Computer Science and Engineering to run a train simulator. Games are supposed to be fun and not work.

The advantages of this are there are fewer support requests from users, the product skew is easier to manage and overall, less confusion even from long time users.
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As a pensioner, this describes my situation to a T. After a little over a year I've cancelled my Trainz+ subscription and gone back to TRS19 Standard. Inflation is putting a serious dent into my gaming life. And I only play 2 games.
 
The problem with waiting until the next big feature is included in the retail version is that you'll be waiting forever. There will always be the a next and then another next. Of course once you've tried the latest new in a demo or pre-release, it's hard to go back. Great marketing but hard on the user.
 
No offense, But these memberships are not all that expensive. Keep in mind Trainz is still a business and we wouldn't have HD or TLR in beta without it. Allot of games are going to subscriptions or micro transactions to have steady income. I am happy to pay the subscription rather than a bunch of micro transactions. That's just my opinion. If you sign up for the yearly subscription, I think it's for a year, You get trainz 22 Ultimate. So you are getting something out of it. I think Trainz Has been pretty generous over the years.
 
martinvk said:
The problem with waiting until the next big feature is included in the retail version is that you'll be waiting forever. There will always be the a next and then another next. Of course once you've tried the latest new in a demo or pre-release, it's hard to go back. Great marketing but hard on the user.
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Martin, everyone is waiting for the next new feature. Some of us just look at subscriptions as paying to wait. For example, I bought a annual subscription in December of 2021 as part of the special offer of buy a subscription and get a "forever" version of TRS22. It seemed like a good deal at the time. But here is the reality, TRS22 was an early access version that still had many problems yet to be fixed and those fixes would take 6 months until May 2022 when the official release date happened. Meanwhile, no new major features were added to Trainz Plus in those 6 months. Thousands of bug fixes were done and features in Surveyor 2.0 that didn't work as they should were improved but no real new features. In the last half of my subscription, it appears the main programming effort was on the "secret" features of HD terrain and Trainz Living Railroad which I never saw in my subscription period. So from my viewpoint the subscription would have been a waste of money absence the fact I got TRS22 and a FCT for my $70. So I dropped my subscription. Seven months later TP finally gets HD terrain and two months later a very early version of TLR is available. So I turned on my subscription for a couple of months to try them out. Not a bad deal considering I get a FTC each month as well so having access to TP is really $2 a month after the cost of a 30 day FCT is deducted. But I find myself not really downloading that much any more so I now question the value of the FCT.

I'm not persuaded by the funding the future of Trainz argument either as is often said Trainz is a business. And businesses have to provide value for the money they ask customers to hand over. At times, N3V resembles a family restaurant that you want to help survive by eating lunch there everyday, but the truth is the food isn't that good.
 
nugget2225 said:
No offense, But these memberships are not all that expensive. Keep in mind Trainz is still a business and we wouldn't have HD or TLR in beta without it. Allot of games are going to subscriptions or micro transactions to have steady income. I am happy to pay the subscription rather than a bunch of micro transactions. That's just my opinion. If you sign up for the yearly subscription, I think it's for a year, You get trainz 22 Ultimate. So you are getting something out of it. I think Trainz Has been pretty generous over the years.
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As you say, this is a business transaction, we're not supporting a charity.
 
martinvk said:
Depending on your feature -price point, it could happen tomorrow or you could be waiting a long time. Everyone has to make their own calculation.
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Or if N3V continue to downgrade retail version customers it could be never. All scenarios are possible, though me taking a subscription is probably the least likely.
 
amigacooke said:
Or if N3V continue to downgrade retail version customers it could be never.
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22PE isn't a downgrade. There is this weird idea that they should provide every feature that exists in Plus as it is currently, to the retail version. This is not going to happen. It has been said over and over again, how they do things with plus vs retail, so I'm not sure why the heartache about not getting all the features. Nobody is being forced to buy anything. if it makes you happy, wait ten years to buy anything. Whatever floats your boat.
 
capdiamont said:
22PE isn't a downgrade. There is this weird idea that they should provide every feature that exists in Plus as it is currently, to the retail version. This is not going to happen. It has been said over and over again, how they do things with plus vs retail, so I'm not sure why the heartache about not getting all the features. Nobody is being forced to buy anything. if it makes you happy, wait ten years to buy anything. Whatever floats your boat.
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Everyone has their own way of looking at things. Personally, paying the same price as a year's subscription for a product that contains less features feels like a downgrade to me, and clearly I'm not alone.
 
capdiamont said:
22PE isn't a downgrade. There is this weird idea that they should provide every feature that exists in Plus as it is currently, to the retail version. This is not going to happen. It has been said over and over again, how they do things with plus vs retail, so I'm not sure why the heartache about not getting all the features. Nobody is being forced to buy anything. if it makes you happy, wait ten years to buy anything. Whatever floats your boat.
Click to expand...
When the subscriptions were introduced, Tony was at pains to point out that it was an alternative rather than a superior product. The retail version was a snapshot of the Trainz+ version, though of course that changed as soon as the next + update arrived. That was the deal at the time and a certain Star Wars meme involving changing deals comes to mind.
 
amigacooke said:
When the subscriptions were introduced, Tony was at pains to point out that it was an alternative rather than a superior product. The retail version was a snapshot of the Trainz+ version, though of course that changed as soon as the next + update arrived. That was the deal at the time and a certain Star Wars meme involving changing deals comes to mind.
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I wouldn't say Plus is a superior product. Plus has different features, plus people who pay more, and form a stable income, should get more. Otherwise what is the point? That model is done with many businesses. YouTuber's do it. It is a common model. Some would say superior product is one that is more stable. That case the retail version is the more stable one, next Plus stable branch, and last plus beta. I try to steer people away from the beta stuff for normal usage as that has the highest bugs and should not be used for normal stuff.

I think it is clear from the beginning, that this is probably a false thread.

As far as complaining PE doesn't have the same features as plus, you buy one, you get the other right now, so you can get all the features if you like. Or not. Whatever.
 
Exactly, Lets compare:
TRS22 - MPS has a limited feature set which restricts the user to just playing on small set of N3V chosen routes.
TRS22PE - Same as above.
TP - Full featured version of MPS. Users can create and control access to their own routes
 
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