the curse of packaged routes.

[frogpipe]

well Frogpipe, thanks for indicating how to identify what package its part of, as its made life a bit easier at least, Its part of Healesviille and Warwick to Wallangarra , so why wasnt it showing as packaged previously and why isnt it showing as such for Peter ? Also, some of the assets contained within these packages dont show as packaged , they arent Auran items yet they seem to have a charmed life, existing as installed from DLS , within the sea of DLC content. I still fail to see the point of all this DLC , I really do .

Its not at all uncommon now to have KUID:12345:10011 and KUID2:12345:10011:1 on the DLS, and then have the IDENTICAL asset KUID2:12345:10011:2 not on the DLS and marked Packaged as it was rolled into a DLC.

Thats what I was speaking of above.

The question is what exactly are the KUIDs of your asset and his. Are they the same? Bet they arent.

Why did it chamge status for you? Either it got updated or some bug caused it to appear mis-labeled I'd guess.

If a lower revision is on the DLC and you want that one specificed for your route, do a bulk replacement and switch it to something not used anywhere else on your route.

Then ununstall healesville.

Download the asset from the DLS.

Then do a final bulk replace to switch the placeholder you used back to the asset you actually want.

Save your route and never install healesville again.

 

[dangavel]

Its not at all uncommon now to have KUID:12345:10011 and KUID2:12345:10011:1 on the DLS, and then have the IDENTICAL asset KUID2:12345:10011:2 not on the DLS and marked Packaged as it was rolled into a DLC.

Thats what I was speaking of above.

The question is what exactly are the KUIDs of your asset and his. Are they the same? Bet they arent.

Why did it chamge status for you? Either it got updated or some bug caused it to appear mis-labeled I'd guess.

If a lower revision is on the DLC and you want that one specificed for your route, do a bulk replacement and switch it to something not used anywhere else on your route.

Then ununstall healesville.

Download the asset from the DLS.

Then do a final bulk replace to switch the placeholder you used back to the asset you actually want.

Save your route and never install healesville again.

its exactly the same as peters version <kuid2:184151:274:2> Hotel-Imperial-Pub-Oz by Vinnybarb
I just downloaded it to trainz sp1 on my mac and its not showing as packaged, its 'installed from DLS " !!!!
Anyway, its no longer an issue , as long as it is visible in the route . I've given up trying to totally eliminate DLC stuff from my routes, as its constantly changing status all the time. I coulod upload a route one day, no problems and the next it could show missing or defective assets. There are other installed Healesville assets in other routes in my DB , some of which I use. not that simple to uninstall it as I fix one issue then another rears its head.

 

[JCitron]

its exactly the same as peters version <kuid2:184151:274:2> Hotel-Imperial-Pub-Oz by Vinnybarb
I just downloaded it to trainz sp1 on my mac and its not showing as packaged, its 'installed from DLS " !!!!
Anyway, its no longer an issue , as long as it is visible in the route . I've given up trying to totally eliminate DLC stuff from my routes, as its constantly changing status all the time. I coulod upload a route one day, no problems and the next it could show missing or defective assets. There are other installed Healesville assets in other routes in my DB , some of which I use. not that simple to uninstall it as I fix one issue then another rears its head.

It's this exact issue that causes us great angst when we install a non-DLS route from a backup that references a :1 asset that no longer exists because a DLC package has turned that into a :2, for example, causing that asset to become a missing dependency.

My fix is to clone an older one on the DLS and make it a :3 version. I will say that 99.999999% of the time the asset on the DLS is exactly the same as the one that's been munged into a packaged DLC version and there's no difference anywhere. All that was done was the asset was up-versioned when it was packaged which is total BS.

Again, I reported the missing dependency issue back in T: ANE beta days and then again in TRS19, and I was told I was blowing smoke out of my hat figuratively as I was given the "clueless" we don't know what you're talking about statements from the QA team.

Then you wonder why I'm reluctant to beta test any longer...

 

[frogpipe]

Thats not quite right.

If your "non DLS route" references a :1 and you have a :2 it just uses the :2

If your "non DLS route" references :2 (because the creator had a DLC) and all the Download Station had is :1, then you're in trouble. Unless you have that same DLC.

In that situation, your "make a :3" will absolutely work. I do that too.

And it is total BS - AFAIK it was done because of people having to download assets for bought routes from N3V - and them being stuck at slow download speed unless the paid MORE for a 1st Class Ticket.

So far, so reasonable. But how and why this upversioning garbage became the solution is beyond me, and I've never seen N3V address it (except maybe they said what I just did, but basically also said "thats why it is what it is, and you'll just have to deal with it" too)

 

[JCitron]

The route installed is from a backup CDP and not one on the DLS. DLS routes will pick up the difference fine but for some reason non-DLS routes such as the backed-up route, ignore the new version and still look for the original KUID.

To give credit where credit is due, N3V has been on a campaign though to ensure that all non-proprietary assets are on the DLS as well. If there is anything that's not on the DLS and is in a DLC route notify N3V and they will upload the asset.

It's still BS and shouldn't have happened in the first place but it did due to things not being thought out carefully without looking at the possible impact that can occur in various scenarios.

 

[frogpipe]

> If there is anything that's not on the DLS and is in a DLC route notify N3V and they will upload the asset.

Well that's ridiculous, they have access to the data for what they  did it shouldnt be on the end users to sort it out.

 

[G.M.]

Example which gives unneeded kuid hunting/missing, reported this to N3v, no action seen sofar.
<kuid:523:19723450> DriverNicolaas and <kuid:523:19723449> Nicolaas are built-in in TRS19(Eu version) and not in TRS22 or Plus or DLS

 

[pware]

A few observations based on my experiences and the comments on this issue in other threads.

1. DLS assets that are included in a DLC package are more highly compressed, specifically their image files are converted to .texture files, to reduce the download time. This means that they are given an updated kuid (a :1 or a :x+1) so that they should not overwrite any earlier "Installed from DLS" version of that asset but the earlier installed version will now be labelled as "Obsolete"
2. The creator of a DLC package decides what will be included in the package. If they use an updated version of an asset (such as a building) that they have created then they can decide whether or not the update will also be available on the DLS or not.
   • In some cases, that omission has been unintended. A polite PM to the creator has sometimes resolved the issue.
   • In some cases that omission is an error in the system. Contacting N3V will usually resolve the issue.
   • In a few cases the omission is deliberate - the package creator has the right to make that decision.

 

[Forester1]

A side topic annoyance for me is "Packaged, Newer version available". but no, it's not. I have <kuid2:506034:455619:2> CN GP9 phase II (zebra) (among others, about half a dozen). If I "List Asset Versions, I see <kuid2:506034:455619:2> CN GP9 phase II (zebra) which is "Payware, not active". Version :1 I got as part of the JR Loco Package, but now the new version is payware? It already was and I paid for it! And yet if I right-click and list dependents, it lists the same JR loco package.

The same for <kuid:523:19721020> LMS Princess Coronation Blue. It is part of <kuid:523:19721055> LMS Coronation Scot, and the same thing is listed for <kuid2:523:19721020:1> LMS Princess Coronation Blue. At one point they just said they were going to make it so we would not see them, but I still see them, and am still very annoyed.

 

[pware]

A side topic annoyance for me is "Packaged, Newer version available". but no, it's not.

I currently have 4 assets labelled as "Packaged, Newer version available" and, as you noted, no newer version is available on the DLS. Until recently that list was 7 assets but 3 of them eventually (after many months) had the updates appear on the DLS. I do not know for certain what was the cause of the delay. None of the asset creators are Auran/N3V.

 

[rwk]

I sometimes have the problem of a faulty asset that is marked payware and the error is faulty textures and the PEV tool can’t convert them to .tgas. It happens when I search for non-DLS dependencies for a route and an asset is a marked payware one and has .texture files. This is happening in 19. So, the asset is useless because it is broken but can’t be fixed and no easy way to replace faulty assets in a route. One route has a faulty JR track with that type of error and I don’t know how to replace it with a working track and I have no idea where the track is on the route. I didn’t see any dotted white dashes.

 

[Forester1]

I have seen that too, rwk. Somehow older assets that N3V uses don't have to meet the rules the other assets have to, until there is a problem, and it actually causes an error, and then you can't fix it. I think if they are going to require the rest of us to change .texture files to .tga and .texture.txt then ALL of the assets N3V uses should meet the same standards instead of skating.

 

[JCitron]

The .texture files in the packaged assets are highly compressed differently than other assets and can't be converted using PEV's Images2TGA.

Assets like the track that's missing, I search "other sites" that can't be listed here otherwise we get in trouble for them. I don't search directly on my PC and use a virtual machine for that and then transfer the content over just in case that part of the internet has icky stuff in it.

 

[frogpipe]

Meh, I use that land all the time as a last resort. No issues.

As far as .texture files go, some can be converted by pevtools. The ones that can't I assumed were encrypted, tho maybe they are some more advanced version that image2TGA can't digest - those tools are getting long in the tooth.

 

[JCitron]

Peter did create an updated Images2TGA tool that works with the T: ANE and up versions, but yeah those encrypted or highly compressed versions are beyond what can be done and I agree the tools are getting a bit old. I'll continue to use them though until the wheels fall off and the springs poke through the seats.

 

[frogpipe]

Ditto. It seems at tho no good analogs are coming so unless and until they do...

 

[ZecMurphy]

Just to confirm all DLC packs package assets, including DLS assets. This ensures that players have a 1 click install process for DLC packs.

If an asset is installed from the DLS, and you install a DLC pack that includes that asset, then it may still show as installed from DLS until a database repair updates this status (or you edit and submit the asset). In some cases the status may update immediately, but not always.

That said, you can always check if the asset itself is available from the DLS by checking the upload date. IF the asset shows an upload date, then it is available from the DLS, even if it is marked as packaged

If a packaged asset (or payware asset) is ever shown as faulty, then you can generally resolve this by right clicking on it, then click on 'revert to original'. If it still shows as faulty, then right click on it and click on 'view errors and warnings'; if it shows no errors (warnings can be ignored in this specific case), then right click on it, go to 'open...' then click on 'preview asset'. The Preview Asset tool will force Trainz to re-check the status of the asset, and display it's appropriate status (ie if it has not errors, it will preview and will clear the 'faulty' status).

Regards

 

[HPL]

A side topic annoyance for me is "Packaged, Newer version available". but no, it's not. I have. ../... (among others, about half a dozen).

You are a lucky man! I have 26 of those...

 

[frogpipe]

Just to confirm all DLC packs package assets, including DLS assets. This ensures that players have a 1 click install process for DLC packs.

If an asset is installed from the DLS, and you install a DLC pack that includes that asset, then it may still show as installed from DLS until a database repair updates this status (or you edit and submit the asset). In some cases the status may update immediately, but not always.

That said, you can always check if the asset itself is available from the DLS by checking the upload date. IF the asset shows an upload date, then it is available from the DLS, even if it is marked as packaged

If a packaged asset (or payware asset) is ever shown as faulty, then you can generally resolve this by right clicking on it, then click on 'revert to original'. If it still shows as faulty, then right click on it and click on 'view errors and warnings'; if it shows no errors (warnings can be ignored in this specific case), then right click on it, go to 'open...' then click on 'preview asset'. The Preview Asset tool will force Trainz to re-check the status of the asset, and display it's appropriate status (ie if it has not errors, it will preview and will clear the 'faulty' status).

Regards

Not so if you're building a route, then the specced asset will be the DLC revision which won't be on the DLS and then you're SOL.

 

[Forester1]

Zec, so what does it mean when your current asset is "Packaged" and the newer version is "Payware, (Inactive)? Does it mean that asset has been updated but has to be paid for again? Or it has been updated but now part of a route that has to be purchased?