the curse of packaged routes.

[ricomon35]

This texture limitation B.S., has now permanently put me off buying TRS22. In my current MRR layout, I have 58 fine blended textures, all PBR. My last, the Rio Grande layout, 108. Sissiboo Logging, has 240, Petersdorf 90, KleinStadt 45.

I only build super detailed layouts, with lot's of fine blending of terrain textures. Heavy terrain modeling, and gobs of clutter detail. All are less than one baseboard in size. If this is a permanent feature of the HD terrain, then I am permanently out man.

No way I'm going to build at a lower level of detail and realism than I do. I pretty much JUST build layouts and model scenery assets. All of the new features, like living Trainz, really don't appeal as much to me as the HD terrain and Surveyor 2.0 features.


I have always been a proponent of the Trainz way of railroad simming, but now man? Pfft. I am slowly saving around 1200 USD for a new Mobo,CPU, RAM and a new RTX GPU, this WAS mainly for TRS22, and future versions and the idea of working live on layouts with Dangavel and maybe others. But after this B.S., it's going to be for going back to Cities: Skylines V2,finishing map releases and collaborating with MrMiyagi again.


Rico

 

[pware]

This texture limitation B.S., has now permanently put me off buying TRS22. In my current MRR layout, I have 58 fine blended textures, all PBR. My last, the Rio Grande layout, 108. Sissiboo Logging, has 240, Petersdorf 90, KleinStadt 45.

But after this B.S., it's going to be for going back to Cities: Skylines V2,finishing map releases and collaborating with MrMiyagi again.

Rico, I am not sure if you have really understood this. In my latest project, with (uncounted) hundreds of baseboards, I have 53 PBR textures and when I did a trial run of the "Upgrade" to HD not one baseboard failed the 16 texture limit requirement. The important point here is that the limit is 16 textures per baseboard, not 16 textures per route. Each baseboards can have a completely different selection of up to 16 different textures from its neighbouring baseboards. On another route, with around 40 different textures, only one baseboard exceeded the 16 texture limit and the upgrade automatically replaced that extra texture with one already used in that baseboard. When I examined that baseboard (the upgrade report gave me its co-ordinates) I could not see what had changed.

I had no trouble limiting my texture choices to 16 or under per baseboard without even realising that I was doing it. If that limit is too onerous then you always have the option of not using HD. I have made that decision, not because of the texture limit, but because a HD Grid route has a .cdp file 5 times or more larger than a 10m Grid route and that makes my very large routes far to big to manage.

As Zec has posted in other threads, this 16 texture limit is a hardware limitation and not "something they plucked out of the air" just to annoy users.

My thoughts.

 

[H222]

This texture limitation B.S., has now permanently put me off buying TRS22. In my current MRR layout, I have 58 fine blended textures, all PBR. My last, the Rio Grande layout, 108. Sissiboo Logging, has 240, Petersdorf 90, KleinStadt 45.

I only build super detailed layouts, with lot's of fine blending of terrain textures. Heavy terrain modeling, and gobs of clutter detail. All are less than one baseboard in size. If this is a permanent feature of the HD terrain, then I am permanently out man.

No way I'm going to build at a lower level of detail and realism than I do. I pretty much JUST build layouts and model scenery assets. All of the new features, like living Trainz, really don't appeal as much to me as the HD terrain and Surveyor 2.0 features.


I have always been a proponent of the Trainz way of railroad simming, but now man? Pfft. I am slowly saving around 1200 USD for a new Mobo,CPU, RAM and a new RTX GPU, this WAS mainly for TRS22, and future versions and the idea of working live on layouts with Dangavel and maybe others. But after this B.S., it's going to be for going back to Cities: Skylines V2,finishing map releases and collaborating with MrMiyagi again.


Rico

Rico, it sounds like you haven't really paid attention to what has been said at all.

You can continue using Surveyor 1. You can continue using Surveyor 2 with 5m terrain with infinite texture options. If you really think 16 is too much of a limitation PER BASEBOARD with effectively infinite colour tinting (allowing 1 grass texture to look different in every inch of it), then don't use it.

Jamie

 

[ricomon35]

Rico, it sounds like you haven't really paid attention to what has been said at all.

You can continue using Surveyor 1. You can continue using Surveyor 2 with 5m terrain with infinite texture options. If you really think 16 is too much of a limitation PER BASEBOARD with effectively infinite colour tinting (allowing 1 grass texture to look different in every inch of it), then don't use it.

Jamie

Wow, nice answer man. If you're trying to convince me of something, you're going about it the wrong way.
You know here you can take your condescending attitude?

Yeah, There...

Rico

 

[H222]

Wow, nice answer man. If you're trying to convince me of something, you're going about it the wrong way.
You know here you can take your condescending attitude?

Yeah, There...

Rico

Condescending? I'm genuinely confused - the way your opinion was so aggressively formulated it sounded like you thought that only HD Terrain and only Surveyor 2 were going to be usable in any new version

 

[ricomon35]

Rico, I am not sure if you have really understood this. In my latest project, with (uncounted) hundreds of baseboards, I have 53 PBR textures and when I did a trial run of the "Upgrade" to HD not one baseboard failed the 16 texture limit requirement. The important point here is that the limit is 16 textures per baseboard, not 16 textures per route. Each baseboards can have a completely different selection of up to 16 different textures from its neighbouring baseboards. On another route, with around 40 different textures, only one baseboard exceeded the 16 texture limit and the upgrade automatically replaced that extra texture with one already used in that baseboard. When I examined that baseboard (the upgrade report gave me its co-ordinates) I could not see what had changed.

I had no trouble limiting my texture choices to 16 or under per baseboard without even realising that I was doing it. If that limit is too onerous then you always have the option of not using HD. I have made that decision, not because of the texture limit, but because a HD Grid route has a .cdp file 5 times or more larger than a 10m Grid route and that makes my very large routes far to big to manage.

As Zec has posted in other threads, this 16 texture limit is a hardware limitation and not "something they plucked out of the air" just to annoy users.

My thoughts.

Thanks for the reply. I do understand I think. When I stated my texture counts, those are per baseboard. My builds are all MRR layouts, and fit in a single baseboard, with maybe one of my larger unfinished layouts fitting in two baseboards, so yes. 16 per baseboard is a limitation, since I have 45-240 PBR textures per each single baseboard layout. I don't build 1:1 scale routes like most other Trainzers, I'm strictly MRR.

 

[ricomon35]

Condescending? I'm genuinely confused - the way your opinion was so aggressively formulated it sounded like you thought that only HD Terrain and only Surveyor 2 were going to be usable in any new version

Ok, fine, I apologize. Please remove attitude from rear area.... It sounds like were both assuming incorrect attitudes. I'm not being aggressive, but I am somewhat pissed and annoyed about the 16 texture limit. It will affect the quality of my work, since I work in one to two baseboard sized layouts.

I very much want to work in S2, with HD terrain as I need the ability to make finely detailed terrain AND be able to texture in the sub 5m brush sizes constantly. I've been map building in Cities: Skylines for a few years already, where we do have pretty good terrain modeling ability. I'm happy to see it implemented in Trainz.

I spend so much of my time modeling cliff splines to make up for the lack of HD terrain in TRS2019, so having that (terrain) tool in TRS22 is of course exactly what I want, but 16 textures per baseboard isn't enough for my purposes, since, like I posted before I use 45-240 unique textures in my layouts, which are for the most part mountainous, with many vertical complex cliffs, deep ravines, narrow creeks with fast rapids, and steep grades.

Like these pics illustrate, many custom spline cliffs, custom buildings, scenery clutter models, rock formations and gobs of texture blending, in a small area.

Sorry Dangavel, for hijacking your thread, you already know about all of this, LOL.


Rico

 

[pware]

Like these pics illustrate, many custom spline cliffs, custom buildings, scenery clutter models, rock formations and gobs of texture blending, in a small area.

Very nice pics.

 

[Forester1]

Wow! That is a gorgeous route!

 

[ricomon35]

Wow! That is a gorgeous route!

Thanks Forester. It's nearing completion. I'm modeling gobs of clutter scenery for the various scenes. That's taking forever, LOL. It's the Hangman Creek Lumber Company layout. Search that on Youtube, and facebook for pics of the original layout. Mine is very close to the original. I'm also still making stuff for Dangavel's DSP&P. Getting a bit burned out on all this work, LOL.

@pware>Thank you !


Rico

 

[dangavel]

Here we go again, used Vinnybarbs Imperial Hotel Pub Oz yesterday in my Willunga Route, today, its not only become packaged, but its also faulty, and its showing no errors, also, I can't delete it either. Now, after a database rebuild and using delete missing objects and a restart, its returned, but since yesterday, for some reason, its become packaged.
Honestly, there are times that this accursed just app makes me annoyed, not a lot of enjoyment to be had . All of EMT hemlocks have become faulty in ts2022 for some reason, its never ending !

 

[pware]

Vinnybarbs Imperial Hotel Pub Oz yesterday in my Willunga Route, today, its not only become packaged, but its also faulty, and its showing no errors, also, I can't delete it either

<kuid2:184151:274:2> Hotel-Imperial-Pub-Oz by Vinnybarb is showing as "Available for Download" in my CM. I just downloaded it. It is now showing as "Installed from DLS" with no errors.

Packaged assets can only be deleted by Uninstalling the DLC package they came in.

 

[dangavel]

<kuid2:184151:274:2> Hotel-Imperial-Pub-Oz by Vinnybarb is showing as "Available for Download" in my CM. I just downloaded it. It is now showing as "Installed from DLS" with no errors.

Packaged assets can only be deleted by Uninstalling the DLC package they came in.

I know, but yesterday, it WASNT packaged as I was looking at the config file to see if Vinnybarb allowed reskins, , I KNOW it wasn't packaged as I don't bother to open them up if they are. I havent installed any packaged routes since yesterday either. its still packaged in my install, so go figure. I could try a complete database repair which might sort it out I suppose.

 

[Forester1]

OT I suppose, but thanks for bumping the thread. I am reminded to download Sissiboo and Petersburg. I already have and enjoy Rio Grande and Kleinstadt by Ricomon35!

 

[frogpipe]

Funny to see this today, as I've been grappling with this very issue.

It would be nice to see official word from N3V about what is a goof and what is intended.

As I see it, they take any asset that was used in a DLC they start selling and "upversion" it. No other changes, just make its KUID end in :x+1.

If a creator happens to have that DLC then a legitimate DLS asset gets upversioned on their route too.

Later if they want to release their route, its loaded with DLC dependencies for no reason (this is where I am now) - so I've uninstalled DLC - then checked for missing assets, downloaded the previous identical version from the DLS and thru a complicated process replaced these items with the freely available identical items that are available on the DLS.

Either someone didn't think this thru, or they "whoopsied" to push DLC sales and discourage freeware distribution.

 

[dangavel]

At this moment, after both a database repair and extended database repair the Imperial hotel is STILL packaged, even though its not faulty. This is in 2019 sp4, now why in merry hell would this not be packaged in one build and packaged in another ? its enough to try the patience of a saint and i certainly am not one of those.

 

[frogpipe]

Right click it and choose show dependants.

Then with it highlighted, go to the... Developer (I think) tab up top and click the bottom item which is about what packages the asset is installed from.

Tell us what it says.

 

[Forester1]

It shows as packaged for me, from
<kuid2:169264:100532:15> Warwick - Wallangarra
<kuid2:1854:1:12> Healesville - 1913-1920
both payware routes.

 

[dangavel]

Right click it and choose show dependants.

Then with it highlighted, go to the... Developer (I think) tab up top and click the bottom item which is about what packages the asset is installed from.

Tell us what it says.

well Frogpipe, thanks for indicating how to identify what package its part of, as its made life a bit easier at least, Its part of Healesviille and Warwick to Wallangarra , so why wasnt it showing as packaged previously and why isnt it showing as such for Peter ? Also, some of the assets contained within these packages dont show as packaged , they arent Auran items yet they seem to have a charmed life, existing as installed from DLS , within the sea of DLC content. I still fail to see the point of all this DLC , I really do .

 

[Forester1]

I notice version :1 shows as available for download, obsolete. If that is a DLS version, then someone might have been able to update it to the newest version and still have it show as installed from DLS? Dunno.