the curse of packaged routes.

[wreeder]

To that point, it does seem odd that even the simplest assets in payware are forever frozen from other use, but my question above was more technical, as "Packaged" is an actual field in the database, and I assume assets are records with the given fields. At least that's how it looks in CM. If so, I don't see how an asset could be "packaged" in one version and still "payware" in another version if the status field is a database attribute of the asset itself.

I'm not sure what form the trainz database is stored in but in general most databases support fields that can be dynamically changed based upon a formula that looks at other fields to determine the value for the field. Think of a field that indicates whether a membership is still active or non-active. You write a formula for that field that examines the the date of the last purchase and if that date is older than 365 days ago then the field indicates non-active. When a new purchase is made then it changes to active without user intervention.

My guess is that packaged just indicates that the most recent version of the asset exists in a tzarc or scxxx package in the packages folder and the database knows that is where to find it. The database is keeping track of assets in different folders all over your local data folder. For example, you download an asset from the DLS and it gets installed in your local folder. You want to edit it so you open it for edit and the database moves it to the editing folder. When you're done you commit it and it gets moved back to the local folder. The database is tracking its location at all times and updating the status field from installed from DLS to open for edit to modified.

 

[ZecMurphy]

OK, but it seems from a database perspective that the ASSET should have the status tag, so why should that be version specific? If the "Status" tag for an asset changes from "payware" to "packaged", shouldn't it change in every version?

Effectively the status is a part of the asset in the package.

The issue here is that the original DLC system (pre TCCP2.0) simply marked assets payware if it did not see them as being on the DLS. This applied to freeware content from 3rd party websites, and to 'updates' to DLS assets where the update wasn't at that time on the DLS. This was automated at that time.

TCCP2.0 has solved this by having the package creator specify exactly which assets should be payware encrypted (and hence tagged/flagged as payware).

However until an older package is remade using TCCP2.0, it will be configured/packaged as it was for the earlier versions of Trainz. So this does mean that for older (ie made more than 3 years ago) DLC packs, items may show as 'payware' if they were simply not on the DLS at the time it was packaged. This won't magically change, it will require them to be rebuilt using TCCP2.0, which at the current time is likely to only occur when the creator submits an update for that DLC pack through TCCP2.0.

As to availability of assets, nothing has been removed or changed for content on the DLS. We of course cannot guarantee that 3rd party websites will maintain availability as that is outside of our control.

However if an asset is on the DLS, it is still on the DLS, irrespective of it being included in a DLC pack. This means that if you share a route that uses those assets, and the end-user does not have the required DLC pack(s) installed, they would need to source the assets from their source locations; be it the DLS or other websites. The same as it always would be.

As noted however, TCCP2.0 only works for TRS19 SP5 and newer at this point in time (initially it only supported TRS19 SP2); this means that quite simply the DLC packs in TANE itself won't be updated, any updates would only be for newer versions of Trainz.

Regards

 

[weevil]

Zec and others have made posts on this issue ever since the "Packaged" assets appeared so they clearly do have an interest
We must wait several years at the current rate. Furthermore the explantion of the process by Zec (I have forgotten which post this was from) involves getting permission from the original asset creator.

Quite ironic really when you consider that they didn't feel the need to ask anybody's permission before making the changes that created the problem in the first place.

 

[weevil]

Unfortunately as TANE is no longer actively supported by us, DLC packs in TANE won't be updated; any updates would be for TRS19 or TRS22 (depending on which version the creator is using to create/submit the update).

Regards
Zec

Nice. You create a problem then use the excuse that an older version is "no longer supported" to get out of having to fix it.

So just procrastinate another year or two and then TRS19 will no longer be supported either and you won't have to do anything about it at all.

In case you're interested, this is why I've basically stopped using Trainz and just limit myself to a month's subscription every year or two to see what's new.
Generally speaking what's new is often interesting but always comes with caveats. The big problem are all the old issues that never get addressed.

 

[JCitron]

The big problem are all the old issues that never get addressed.

I made a post regarding this elsewhere. The products are never completed with many things left half done. A good example is the main menu. It's been the same since TRS19 when we were told it's WIP. There are many things with bugs that need fixing but are never updated but a new thing is added.

I referred to it in so many words as being like an old house someone bought that's forever under renovation. The house has a new pool but the roof needs replacing and is left as is while the kitchen is half done while the parlor has been recently painted except for the moldings and trim around the windows and doors.

 

[dangavel]

Nice. You create a problem then use the excuse that an older version is "no longer supported" to get out of having to fix it.

So just procrastinate another year or two and then TRS19 will no longer be supported either and you won't have to do anything about it at all.

In case you're interested, this is why I've basically stopped using Trainz and just limit myself to a month's subscription every year or two to see what's new.
Generally speaking what's new is often interesting but always comes with caveats. The big problem are all the old issues that never get addressed.

They dont even support TRS 2019 SP1 , when my copy was acting up about a year ago, I was told to use a later version, however a later version would not install on my Mac os high sierra and whilst I could have updated to a later verison of the OS I would have lost the use of all of my 32 bit Adobe CS suite apps . I think this was unfair as the app worked on high sierra when I purchased it , it worked well ( far better then sp4 which i'm currently using on my Pc) but even a reinstall would not work, for some reason environmental controls had ceased to function, but NV3 offered me no support whatsover.

 

[FootplatePhil]

I would prefer that they use my subscription money to fix existing issues (eg TRS21019's marketing gimmick - TurfFX) instead of splashing it on HD terrain, which I can't use due to its limitations. BTW, who did ask for that?

 

[weevil]

BTW, who did ask for that?

To be fair, I think lots of people did over the years. Fine control over terrain in specific situations (switchback tracks on steep gradients, tunnel entrances, rail embankments with bridges crossing farm tracks etc.,) is massively useful. Additionally, the ability to reduce or eliminate the texture "jaggies" is definitely one I can remember being brought up almost weekly.

edit: we're getting way off topic here btw.

 

[FootplatePhil]

To be fair, I think lots of people did over the years. Fine control over terrain in specific situations (switchback tracks on steep gradients, tunnel entrances, rail embankments with bridges crossing farm tracks etc.,) is massively useful. Additionally, the ability to reduce or eliminate the texture "jaggies" is definitely one I can remember being brought up almost weekly.

But 16 textures? There is a whole discussion here, but I've gone off topic. I do look forward to seeing how some of our clever creators use it.

Edit. Just read the latest (excellent!) newsletter. It seems that TurFX may be superseded by Clutter Effect Layer enhancements.

 

[weevil]

But 16 textures?

Indeed. Pretty sure no-one asked for that.

 

[johnarran]

Nice. You create a problem then use the excuse that an older version is "no longer supported" to get out of having to fix it.

So just procrastinate another year or two and then TRS19 will no longer be supported either and you won't have to do anything about it at all.

In case you're interested, this is why I've basically stopped using Trainz and just limit myself to a month's subscription every year or two to see what's new.
Generally speaking what's new is often interesting but always comes with caveats. The big problem are all the old issues that never get addressed.

And while the public keep buying so called new products/versions and/or Trainz plus the old problems never will get fixed. We're taken for mugs!

 

[capdiamont]

I’m sure 16 textures per baseboard isn’t what they wanted. Problem is HD Terrain requires a large amount of data and current limitations of computers have to be taken into account. More textures also means more storage space is needed. There is complaints about how large it is now and yet complain about not having more textures.

Today’s newsletter says they are working on the main menu.

 

[johnarran]

I’m sure 16 textures per baseboard isn’t what they wanted. Problem is HD Terrain requires a large amount of data and current limitations of computers have to be taken into account. More textures also means more storage space is needed. There is complaints about how large it is now and yet complain about not having more textures.

Today’s newsletter says they are working on the main menu.

Indeed, but check out the minimum specs for TRS22 PE. They haven't changed since TANE and I believe herein lies the problem. Trying to cover a bigger potential user base.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

My old potato pc runs TRS22 Plus at all settings at max, except shadows. So that tells you much has not changed.
Still want to know when we will get proper pitch black tunnels. Most of them are brighter inside than outside daylight. Been banging on about that for over 20 years.

 

[FootplatePhil]

Back to eat my words! I've spent a couple of days playing with HD (just importing and converting my route, then running its sessions). The 16 texture limit is not as bad as I thought it would be, and I like the HD look and performance. If NV3 were to allow for larger .cdp files I would consider upgrading my route.

 

[pware]

In the two large TRS19 routes I tested the "Upgrade" conversion on, only one reported a problem with a single baseboard (one of many hundreds) exceeding the 16 texture limit. On close inspection I could not see a texture problem with that baseboard. That particular route had a total of 39 different textures in use. The other, which had no problem at all, had over 50 different textures in use. I have always tried to limit the number of different textures I use in the same baseboard, a hangover from the early days when system resources were low.

 

[johnarran]

In the two large TRS19 routes I tested the "Upgrade" conversion on, only one reported a problem with a single baseboard (one of many hundreds) exceeding the 16 texture limit. On close inspection I could not see a texture problem with that baseboard. That particular route had a total of 39 different textures in use. The other, which had no problem at all, had over 50 different textures in use. I have always tried to limit the number of different textures I use in the same baseboard, a hangover from the early days when system resources were low.

Hi Peter, how do know how many textures you have on a baseboard? Did you manually count them or can the total be found somewhere?

Curious

John

 

[pware]

As far as I know there is no way of determining the number of ground textures used in a single baseboard, just the number in an entire route. Manually counting or "guess-timating" is the best you can do for a single baseboard.

For the total textures in a route, use CM to:-

1. Select the route
2. List dependencies
3. Add the filter line Category = Texture-Environmental

 

[FootplatePhil]

As part of my PBR facelift project I have culled the number of textures I use cross my entire route from well over a hundred down to 44. When I run the HD upgrade on a route with many hundreds of baseboards only a dozen generate the excess textures message. And when I go to those boards (using the tip provided by pware above) it is not obvious to me which texture the HD upgrade tool has replaced. It would be usefull if the tool could report the affected texture, thus allowing me to make my own selection of a substitute in advance of rerunning the tool.

Apologies for taking the thread off topic.

 

[pware]

Apologies for taking the thread off topic.

The journey is often more interesting than the destination.