SP1 =New Poll= What is your favorite version of Trainz -An Honest Poll SP1

The issue with TANE Surveyor and graphics card is the apparent poor optimisation for ATI cards, generally accepted not a problem on Nvidia graphics. Even my old laptop which has the ATI GPU should be able to cope with TANE running in TS12 low detail mode but temperatures still rise steadily with a thermal shutdown if you don't kill the program. This has been documented ad nauseum but it is up to N3V to address why ATI cards do not work so well as Nvidia assuming they have the technical expertise left to figure out why or indeed any interest in doing so now we are moving on to NEXT.

The longer term solution is to buy a newer Nvidia laptop for route building but that is rather low priority vs major decorating and laminate floor campaign throughout the house this year and I'm loath to replace an otherwise perfectly serviceable machine to run one piece of crummy software.
 
Regardless of those who, in their "infinite wisdom", skewed this poll, one thing is quite clear.
The 70% that we were told about from the official poll seems very unlikely.

"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable."
- Mark Twain

Smiley.
 
We like to believe that computers are equivalent at some levels but what if that is not true? Just like some cars seem to win F1 races more often, some trucks are used more often in some occupations, what if some GPU cards are just better at running T:ANE that others?
 
To be honest, then ....

For me, I can't really say, because the truth is each has something new and different that stands out!

Before Trainz 1.3, there was something call Trainz 1.1 ... and 1.2 ... I see these as the foundations of Trainz 1.3 and so forth ...

Well, let met break it down!

Trainz 1.3
UTC--- took forever to launch after you install contents.
Trainz 2004 - made this easier to install contents, and launch + ... And intro the connection to the DLS to download in bulks!

From Tr 2006 to Tr 12 -- In between the classic series and Builders ... improves, but not leaps, like with previous version.

TANE is a leap ... I guess TANE is my fav ... No Taddeamon issue ... no framerate issue -- it runs smooth! Loads super quick, which is important to me!

Ish
 
The issue with TANE Surveyor and graphics card is the apparent poor optimisation for ATI cards, generally accepted not a problem on Nvidia graphics. Even my old laptop which has the ATI GPU should be able to cope with TANE running in TS12 low detail mode but temperatures still rise steadily with a thermal shutdown if you don't kill the program. This has been documented ad nauseum but it is up to N3V to address why ATI cards do not work so well as Nvidia assuming they have the technical expertise left to figure out why or indeed any interest in doing so now we are moving on to NEXT.

The longer term solution is to buy a newer Nvidia laptop for route building but that is rather low priority vs major decorating and laminate floor campaign throughout the house this year and I'm loath to replace an otherwise perfectly serviceable machine to run one piece of crummy software.

I hear you on the renovations... They seem to go on forever and ever. We just finished the kitchen and started on the living room again. I swear rooms get renovation envy between each other. I'm lucky I don't have a wife... They don't help matters I found out when it comes to stuff like this. :) I too wouldn't buy a machine just to run one program unless I needed to do that for a living.

Anyway, have you tried some of the driver changes that our dear forumite PC-Ace has offered up? These seem like reasonable things to try.

Also why would you want to stick with a laptop, or perhaps you should consider a gaming machine such as an ASUS-ROG or Alienware which has the heat dissipation and proper cooling overall. Remember the heat on your video card is only a piece of the bigger puzzle here, and perhaps your current laptop doesn't have the overall cooling to dissipate the heat and causing other problems. Way back in my tech days, I did some heat testing for an R&D group I worked with. I used a thermal recorder and we logged temperatures of the machines under various conditions to determine the component failure temps versus optimum operating temperature and humidity ranges. It was quite interesting and I learned a lot about this. Later on I used some of the same principles for designing a computer room and kept the same principles in use while building home desktop computers.

John
 
Regardless of those who, in their "infinite wisdom", skewed this poll, one thing is quite clear.
The 70% that we were told about from the official poll seems very unlikely.
[/B][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]Smiley.

That poll was open to manipulation unfortunately, as was proved. Oh and I also openly mentioned to remove one or both of the votes. Can't get more upfront than that.
Is easy to make assumptions but raw proof is more palatable.

I think part of the problem is that those up-voting TANE are not the ones who have tried to build routes in it. The new CMP is more reliable than in TS12 61388, for sure, but running it at the same time as TANE, or trying to run TANE without a re-boot afterwards is asking for trouble. When you sit there with your GPU spiking to 100C and waiting a thermal shutdown, it's not amusing or entertaining. Didn't experience the particular issue related above but plenty of odd behavior with splines, particularly spline points suddenly appearing where there were none, spline height as measured with the grab tool several 100m difference to the terrain height at the same location etc. Oh and the orphaned rulers, too.

Have you submitted a bug report in relation to your issues?

So far with my Geforce GTX 770 the top temp has reached 79c when in Quickdrive this summer. In surveyor normally sits between 72-76c. The pc is not in a large room and air flow movement from the case is not the best as it only has a side vent and the two out the back (includes the power supply vent). So one of the sides is off during the warmer and hot months. A pedestal fan rotates to "try' to keep myself and my partner coolish while we are on the pc's. The hardware and fans are regularly air dusted and the cable connections checked to make sure they are still solid.
Graphics cards are meant to work and work hard if it is required. That is what they are there for - to take the load of the cpu.

With my older wip route I have 8 locos, a bus, 2 horse and riders and a buggy on the move. On a particulary hot day last week I let it run in quick drive (with AI) continuous for four hours. The graphics card hummed along spiking at 79c - nothing at all to get worried about. Although the room did get very warm even with the fan going. Did not have one ctd.

The one time I have had a ctd was approx fours weeks ago, when working in surveyor and proceeded to go into quickdrive but saw my desktop instead. I submitted the crashdump.

Like with any game or simulator, settings within the game need to be set realistically for the pc specs. My card is mid range and along with the 16 gig ram runs between 32 fps up to 59 fps - depending on how much content is about. With the latest sp1, I now run T:ANE with pp on high. Shadows resolution now 4096 but still on low. AA x 2, texture detail - normal, tree detail normal, scenery - low. Draw distance 3500. The sim still looks fine. Even if I had a much higher spec graphics card, I would still be hesitant about putting all the settings to ultra. Definitely would tinker to get the best performance, depending also on the other hardware.

Though I have had a huge amount of enjoyment working in ts12 over the years, I much prefer to work in T:ANE now. Yes there definitely have been big and little bumps along the way with T:ANE causing teeth gritting moments, and yes there are still some glitches happening, but the persistence and patience is paying off.
 
Have you submitted a bug report in relation to your issues?

What's the point? N3V are quite aware of the issue as it has been discussed pretty much since the CE came out last May. Besides they will just say the hardware is below spec (even though running at lesser graphics settings than TS12 which performs fine) or, "What steps caused it to occur?" (Which seems to be the latest mantra out of Brisbane). Other than noting I started Surveyor, laid a few sections of track and station spline, maybe painted a bit of terrain nothing specific, just normal everyday procedures in Surveyor.
 
That's where I disagree, never used favourites or keywords when in surveyor, I pretty much know what I need and shove it in the picklist. . .

Of course. You basically custom created almost the entire set of content for the whole project so I'm sure you had no problem knowing what you needed and what it was called. :D That's an amazing achievement and it shows in the end result. My hat is off to you, but honestly, I can't possibly remember the names of everything I might want to use or have used in the past on a project.

For example, one thing I like to do once I get about a third of the route substantially finished is to add the route name as a keyword to each asset I've used. This then becomes my principle set of assets for the rest of the route and I try to re-use the same basic set of content as much as possible through to the finish. This helps to stop the number of dependencies becoming too bloated.

Anyway, I'm sure there are as many different ways of route building as there are route builders and I for one find the extra asset management filters, keywords and ratings to be a big help. Tony indicated that they are on the list so I am hopeful.

Stuart
 
What's the point? N3V are quite aware of the issue as it has been discussed pretty much since the CE came out last May. Besides they will just say the hardware is below spec (even though running at lesser graphics settings than TS12 which performs fine) or, "What steps caused it to occur?" (Which seems to be the latest mantra out of Brisbane). Other than noting I started Surveyor, laid a few sections of track and station spline, maybe painted a bit of terrain nothing specific, just normal everyday procedures in Surveyor.

Hmm, you do not have a chrome page running in the background at the same time as running T:ANE in surveyor? I have done this a few times when in surveyor and decided to check emails or look on the dls for a particular content without closing surveyor. I get the odd random thing happening. eg. the smooth spline tool would work fine near a tunnel then after a time the same action would "collapse" the tunnel.
A newly piece of curved track would be fine, then go into quick drive and the curve had turned a bit "z" (but not quite that bad).
If a chrome page is not open these quirks did not seem to happen. But in fairness, I do need to test more in case chrome is innocent and some other illusive gremlin maybe the possible culprit.
Bottom line is though, I will not have a chrome page open now while working in surveyor - just to be on the safe side. :)
 
Interesting comments and poll results so far - shame a few chose to try and break it.

My vote - TS12 for stability and smoothness. Sure TANE looks pretty and yes, it can do some things better than TS12, but IMO, its not reliable, nor does it run smooth enough. However, do this poll again in 6 months time once TANE SP1 has had a thorough work out, and it may be different (as far as reliability goes).
 
I don't use Chrome!

That rules that idea out.
With the overheating perhaps the cooling paste has got too dry on the gpu chipset and needs replacing. My partner replaced the original thermal paste on one of our video cards last year when it seemed to be overly warm when running. The original paste was very dry and a bit flaky. Anyway it was replaced with Artic Silver thermal paste. Worked a treat. We use the same for the cpu's.
 
I see my GPU at pretty steady 72C after many hours of running a session. According to Tom's Hardware, it is designed to run between 70 and 80 so no worries here. If your GPU is spiking beyond it's design specs, it sounds like it is being asked to do things it can't.
 
Same here.

And I will second or third my vote for T:ANE after sitting through yet another validation of 48,000-plus assets again with TS12 because it can. I have none of that in T:ANE...

John



I think it depends on how big and ugly you computer is. If its big enough and ugly enough then TANE if it ain't then TS12 looks good.

Cheerio John
 
Just voted on the site and can see that at on the 18th Feb 2016 at 14:52 PM the TS12 product is just ahead winning.
My pick Trainz Simulator 12 (build 61388).
 
Well guys after an apathetically watched poll, much drinking, some arsehats deciding to waste their time trying to screw with a poll, me being drunk and screwing off to do other things for several weeks past the end of the poll, we now have a winner. That winner is Trainz 2012. *cue the confetti*

What does this mean? Absolutely NOTHING. Because it is an opinion based poll that really doesn't matter in the first place, just like the official N3V poll that was only taken if you payed attention to Newsletters that tend to be ignored. Essentially polls don't really matter, but it was still fun to see what the opinions of trainzers were based on the forums rather than the newsletter. And now back to lurking and sporatically opening the game, playing it for a bit, finding something aggravating and closing it again.
 
It's also interesting that TRS2004 only comes in at a measly 3%. Remember when it was first dethroned by the then next version, all sorts of people swore that they would stay with it, how it was the best ever, etc. That was then, this is now. Wait a while and soon TS12 will also be a memory as people praise T:ANE for being wonderful compared to some future version.
 
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