This is why as I've said before, N3V should have drawn a line under TRS19 or even TANE for those who want the older content, while starting work on a new version of the game that throws off the shackles of the past. I mean let's face it, most updates have broken at least some old stuff particularly where scripting is concerned. So long as N3V cling to the past we will never get things like timetable operation, decent despatcher/signaller, real improvements to what we can do in the route editor etc.
TRS22 Confirmed
- Thread starter BNSF1995
- Start date
I am just hoping they will optimize the graphics somehow by default. I have a powerful system and can set things all to ultra if I want, but I have never had the graphics look as realistic as the advertising, or as some people have managed to set it. Trs19 was a disappointment because I wanted it to look better than Tane, but it really hasn't. And Tane never looked as good as some people's posts. It should not be arcane knowledge to get these great graphics, and it is very disappointing not to get them out of the box. If 22 turns out the same way it will be a big let down.
Driver_Col
Active member
So which No.9 bus do you think you will get on?
I must confess to vacillating on this issue. When Trainz was originally released it came with a host of built in assets, most (if not all) created by professional graphic designers. Those creators were largely paid as part of a Federal Govt grant to Auran as a startup games developer. I seem to recall, but I could be wrong, that the total grant was in the order of $AU1 million (or more) but how much went to pay for the "artwork" I have no idea. To buy the talent to create sufficient graphic assets that would match the much more exacting standards of TRS19 today, with LOD, PBR, etc, would, I suspect, cost considerably more. The development time at the very least would be considerably longer than it was for Trainz v1.
The last time I can recall that this topic was discussed, about a year after T:ANE was released, I did a survey of uploaded DLS assets that met the minimum standard for T:ANE (build 3.9+) and it was pitifully few.
The effect of "drawing the line", and I agree this would have many advantages, could be the loss of sales and revenue at least in the short term (hopefully not terminal) and, very probably, lots of complaints from users about their fav. assets from TRS2004 (or, horror of horrors, even earlier!), not working in the latest version.
My thoughts.
All at the risk of breaking many, many routes that use those "old" assets. When placed off in the distance, who cares if they are "sub" par by today's standards. Is this "drawing of lines" a hard cut-off as in impossible to use old assets or a warning, "you are about to use old and possibly sub-standard assets!"
I might go along with a warning. This can already be done with filters to limit assets to a minimum build number so complain to the builders who insist on still using those old assets.
One thing that is really great about Trainz is that the user is free to do pretty much anything they want, unlike some sims that put in so many restrictions.
I might go along with a warning. This can already be done with filters to limit assets to a minimum build number so complain to the builders who insist on still using those old assets.
One thing that is really great about Trainz is that the user is free to do pretty much anything they want, unlike some sims that put in so many restrictions.
Why is old buildings working in Trainz somehow deterring decent timetable operation or signal ops?
And if you actually look at Trainz+ or 19 at some of the routes coming out in the TCCP with heaps of new assets, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an asset dump at some point. Bairnsdale to Orbost came with a number of amazing looking street lights (that didn’t include a full set, I think it started at 8, meaning there’s plenty of others to come) and some gorgeous cliff and building assets.
Driver_Col
Active member
Yup ......... you're right. Better to simply wait for the No.54!
So, when was the last time you took the MBTA bus from Haymarket Square to Lechmere? They also operate their trams the same way, It's particularly horrible standing on the street-side waiting for what seems like a non-existent tram with the miserable cold winter wind blowing straight at you. Then just as your car arrives, there's about another half dozen behind it.
There is a technical reason for that. The first tram driver is the only one of the 6 who knows the route
Well something must be holding the code back. I can’t believe no one at N3V has looked at what the modern sims like TSW2 are offering and in return how do we get that in Trainz? Even leaving timetable modes aside, why by now is there no integrated despatcher and intelligent routing for the player train, not to mention all the improvements we are still waiting for in the route building scene. Yes it looks like Surveyor 2.0 may start to address some of that, but it’s still tickling around the edges.Why is old buildings working in Trainz somehow deterring decent timetable operation or signal ops?
And if you actually look at Trainz+ or 19 at some of the routes coming out in the TCCP with heaps of new assets, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an asset dump at some point. Bairnsdale to Orbost came with a number of amazing looking street lights (that didn’t include a full set, I think it started at 8, meaning there’s plenty of others to come) and some gorgeous cliff and building assets.
DTG are successful because they have a reasonably solid core and can fund future development through DLC sales. The TSW2 German routes and most of the UK ones are very good. However I am completely disinclined to buy any similar DLC for Trainz simply because the driving experience is so dire.
KotangaGirl
Pre-Grouping Railways Nut
So which No.9 bus do you think you will get on?
I will be buying the new TRS22 version when it comes available Col since now that I've got 4.9 SP4 working properly I can see that N3V are doing their best to go in the right direction. It's just that after everything being fairly quiet for so long new builds are popping up before the paint is dry on the previous one.
As far as i can see the question of the use of PBR in asset creation somehow equalling quality is somewhat moot as a poorly made asset doesn't stop being a poorly made asset just because it's now been 'updated' to PBR materials. That said some of the small group of creators who are presently working with PBR are absolute magicians and are doing wonderful things with it. As for myself I continue to use certain legacy assets simply because in some cases there is no useful post-build 3.7 substitute and secondly because the legacy asset happens to have stood the test of time and is still a good one.
I fear the effect of 'drawing a line' would be even more substantial than that. If we started every version of trainz with a completely new engine, to take care of all the new wonderfully detailed assets etc. Then we would be looking at a more restricted game because every asset would have to be re-created for every version of the game. So what would happen to any DLC we paid for, I'm pretty sure we would have to pay again for it to cover its' redevelopment costs. No, to maintain an active userbase and an active 3rd party content supply line Trainz must adapt to, not break existing content which it does reasonably well now. There will always be content that uses older standards that will eventually fail by being non compliant with the latest standards but the fact that you can still get assets that were created for early versions of the game to work in TRS19 for example is another major strength of this simulator.
We don't yet know what the requirements of build 5.0 are going to be, to speculate would be futile, we just need to wait. But as it a development of TRS19 I can't see it breaking anything perhaps just adding to the capabilities of new content.
Martyn
We don't yet know what the requirements of build 5.0 are going to be, to speculate would be futile, we just need to wait. But as it a development of TRS19 I can't see it breaking anything perhaps just adding to the capabilities of new content.
Martyn
My previous post may have been worded poorly, but I'm not asking trainz to replace the library overnight, or start blank. I would, however, like to see N3V start making some progress towards replacing these massive library of older assets that just keep appearing in every new trainz version, and dont ever seem to be updated. I'm not talking about going to each content creator and asking them to replacing their built in 3rd party content. I'm talking about N3V slowing building up a library of their own of high quality consistent assets (which they already have, to a small degree) that would slowly replace old assets. N3Vs current progress at doing that is, imo, a bit too slow. I would like to be able to create an entire route out of high quality built in content only without having to search across the DLS or the internet for content. The inconsistency with content quality has always been an issue for me.
Also, I'm not asking N3V to replace all trainz assets, but only the built-in ones, which only represent a small fraction all all trainz content. I personally think this is doable.
Also, I'm not asking N3V to replace all trainz assets, but only the built-in ones, which only represent a small fraction all all trainz content. I personally think this is doable.
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Driver_Col
Active member
Hi Annie - As you know, I am still using T-ANE as my current sim of choice having put TRS19 in the "major disappointment" bin. Shall look forward to hearing your opinion on "22" when you take that plunge because even T-ANE was a bit of a disaster when it was initially introduced, but the N3V folk eventually got it into a workable shape. Cannot say as they had the same success with TRS19, but I am optimistic that "22" will be very interesting. My biggest problem (and it is my problem and not N3V's) is that I have six Routes which form my staple for playing, modifying etc. If "22" is not receptive to importing those Routes, then I think that I will be at the "end of the road" with the sim. I cannot imagine putting another 200-300 hours into each Route just because of a new Trainz version. Please keep me posted. Regards. Colin.
I guess you're not in the "draw-a-line" camp that wants to dump backwards compatibility and start over with easy new version.
I also think it's a dumb idea to force a limit in the choice of assets that a route creator wants to use in their routes. If someone else doesn't like it, don't download it or do a bulk replace.Interesting that is not the song being sung on various DTG fora where TSW2 is regularly being panned for all its short comings.
Driver_Col
Active member
Whereas guaranteed backwards compatibility is an unrealistic concept for the technology and it's development, it would be nice to see "life-spans" of assets expire progressively and relative to the sim enhancements. Putting that another way, to create a new version of Trainz which negates all assets prior to a designated Build number (e.g. 2.9 ... or later) would be ludicrous from my perspective. Of course it is not "my perspective" that is keeping Trainz running is it!I guess you're not in the "draw-a-line" camp that wants to dump backwards compatibility and start over with easy new version.
Regards. Colin.Oh definitely not all rosy, the West Cornwall route and the Class 150 from Rivet Games turned out to be a disaster. But there is some great stuff in there. I mentioned the UK and German routes but I'm also thoroughly enjoying the MBTA Boston route which came with the Rush Hour update.
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