Trainz Plus Beta update - PC# 121380 & Mac# 121370

[n3v_laurence]

I have encountered a strange issue sometimes when laying new ground textures close to track and its ballast texture. The ballast textures under the track will raise up and partially cover the track in some places - not evenly but in random heights. Smoothing the ground under the track will not correct the problem. I have the shader quality set to standard. Undoing the last texture "add" will correct the problem with the track and the ballast.

Anyone else seeing this issue?

This is likely the displacement geometry of the PBR textures in HD, seen by the dimple like effects in Post 74. Some of the textures are more pronounced than others, which will give the texture varying height even while applied to flat ground. A good example of this is <kuid2:661281:85046:3> PBR Sand 2 - Seasonal which has many little dunes. The peaks of these dunes will show up through the sleepers of track.

A smooth ground under will not change this as the ground is already flat, and it is the material settings used in the texture itself causing the height difference. The solution here will most likely be to use a texture that doesn't have an extreme heightmap.

The other possibility is that it could be the lossy compression coming into play when using HD edits very close by the track. Though this should not impact track height, unless you were using a scrapbook entry that also included a ground height edit.

If you submit a bug report and list the assets used for the issue, QA can have a closer look and then dev can figure out the best solution.

 

[BN1970]

Another problem seems to have reared it's ugly head...all ATLS Controllers TRS19 are appearing to be null...see below:
- <kuid2:76656:500010:21> : File controller.gs, Line 491, ER_NullReference
; <kuid2:76656:500010:21> : Script class: controller
; <kuid2:76656:500010:21> : MeshObject: <kuid2:76656:500010:21> "ATLS CONTROLLER TRS19"
; <kuid2:76656:500010:21> : Script callstack
; <kuid2:76656:500010:21> : function $void@controller::TramHandler(Message), line 467

I am submitting a bug report on this as it was still working in the previous Alpha build.

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

There will be lots of changes still to come, including performance options (trading graphics detail for performance). The current beta has a significant performance hit on some hardware with Clutter turned on, for example.

 

[Paul_Bert]

When completed the HD terrain function will bring a new dimension to building a route as far as visuals are concerned.

A comment and questions

Many of us have spent years building our routes. Some of mine actually originated in TRS2004. I have taken one of my favorite routes and converted it to the HD terrain mode. I have added some HD terrain features and found that it adds a lot to the route. However, I am realizing that this process is going to take a lot of time just on this route. Will the time spent be worth it? Time will tell. Will it be worth the time investment to upgrade my other 10 routes plus upgrading several routes I have from other talented builders.

So, my question is this. Is there any benefit to upgrading a route to HD other than the ability to add HD terrain. Will a converted route look any different or have any features that a non-converted route have. Will the draw distance be improved? Will any of the existing textures be changed? The bottom line is there any advantage to converting a route to the HD mode if there is no intent to add HD texture?

Any thoughts or viewpoints.

 

[pware]

Will a converted route look any different or have any features that a non-converted route have. Will the draw distance be improved? Will any of the existing textures be changed? The bottom line is there any advantage to converting a route to the HD mode if there is no intent to add HD texture?

My trial conversion was from a T:ANE route (no PBR textures, no Effect Layers) to HD. There were no changes to the existing textures, I don't know about the draw distance (it was already at max). Apart from the issues noted above, I did see an improvement in appearance. For example, in the screenshot I posted pointing out a "tear" in the terrain (a known issue) I noticed that HD "dimples" in the terrain under and near a siding track actually added to the realism in the scene.

Despite the teething problems (it is a beta version) I am impressed even with a simple conversion of an older existing route. Starting a brand new route entirely in HD will obviously be a learning curve (as is Surveyor 2.0 and was the UDS, Effect Layers, PBR textures, layers, sessions, and all new features in Trainz over the past two decades) but I am expecting great things to eventuate.

My thoughts.

 

[PC_Ace]

Paul_Bert - Older routes can still enjoy the greater draw distance (claimed 30km) available by visiting Trainz settings - though I found it only rendered to 22000m in non-HD-converted routes.
Immediately noticeable with converted routes, however, will be the removal of the 'walls' at the edges of your map. Where you might have seen the vertical walls of truncated mountainous terrain before, now you will see sky...
In most cases, this looks way better/ more realistic in the far distance...
Regarding conversion of older routes and the time it takes to make any full-scale terrain amendments - I have resolved to convert just one or two of my older existing most-used route creations only.
This is because it will take a huge amount of time simply to fully utilise and apply the greater granularity benefits and features of the new HD world-building tools, time that would be perhaps be better spent on new route creation from scratch.
You also need to factor in the learning curve investment of time for Surveyor 2.0 route-creation, as HD terrain cannot be edited successfully in Classic Surveyor.
Once the bugs are ironed out from this beta, any new route I build from here on in will certainly be started in full HD glory!

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

There's no doubt that the ability to add more detail doesn't mean that you'll want to add that detail everywhere. But having 30km draw distance with no extra detail will be a great start. (There is very little performance penalty now for adding more baseboards. There is about 1MB disk space required per extra baseboard, so widening your route by a few boards either side won't impact things too much.)

 

[Yorkshire]

In an earlier post, I mentioned a problem with accessing the properties of certain track objects in this beta. Working on a new layout, I have discovered the same kind of issue with Enhanced Interlocking Towers. I have installed one into a new layout, however I can't actually access the menu to set up the arrival paths for a station. Searched the menus in both classic & S2.0 but to no avail! Does anyone know how to do this or is it a beta issue yet to be resolved?

Thanks

 

[pware]

I was attempting to replicate your problem but there was not enough information. Could you please post the kuid of the object you have installed and are trying to access?

 

[G.M.]

Baseboard walls gone, no problem, but would prefer if it was a setting you can turn on/off
Humans can normally only see 20km, so if the cap would be there it might be enough
in settings the slider shows [0-------10000], it could be changed to [0-------20000]
then the override draw distance [v] could allow the 30km for those that have superhuman eyes


After conversion of this swiss route, I got this spline issue,
the S2 eyedropper refused to show me the item and could not select it



Then went to my build 100240 with my own s1.1 interface

and found it

 

[PC_Ace]

G.M. -

Humans can normally only see 20km

You undersell us mere mortals!
If you can see the Andromeda Galaxy (M31) with Mark I eyeballs in clear dark skies, then you can see 788.9 kpc (kiloparsecs) - or 2.573 million ly (light years) - or 2.434×10^19 km (kilometers).
Whilst best viewed from the Northern Hemisphere, we can observe this galaxy in the clear, dark skies of Aotearoa NZ for a considerable part of each year, albeit low on the horizon.

Terrestrial view distances depend more on air clarity, height above sea level (or plains) and weather conditions. From the hills above Wellington, I can typically see the mountains surrounding Kaikoura in the South Island (around 150Km away) during fine weather and clear skies (which is frequent, but not always guaranteed). There's very little air pollution to contend with here...

 

[G.M.]

Love to visit NZ one day (now I'm restricted to watching LOTR)
ofc. we can see far away stars (although we actually look ages in the past)


But this is a trainsimulator, simulating on earth visibility
Love everyone to have unlimited view distances but it always comes at a cost
that's why the proposal 0--20000 in settings with an optional 30k when drawcap lifted.


and again, whenever something basic changes in game, the interfaces should also be adjusted.

 

[Paul_Bert]

I converted another of my old routes to HD. The conversion went OK. I did a drive around to look at the result. I came to one section of the routes which was totally submerged in water - maybe 1/4 of a baseboard. I went into map view to look around and then when I went back to the normal driving view the water had disappeared. When I closed the route and reopened it and did another drive around everything seemed to be fine.

 

[Paul_Bert]

I've converted two of my routes now. A common problem of the converted routes in both cases is that sections of roads and track have texture appearing through them. Using the smoothing tool fixes all these issues, but it takes a while to fix this stuff before I can really start the real work on the route. There is no consistency on when the roads or track get covered up. The underlying textures all appear to be the same for both the affected and unaffected areas.

 

[pware]

I came to one section of the routes which was totally submerged in water - maybe 1/4 of a baseboard. I went into map view to look around and then when I went back to the normal driving view the water had disappeared. When I closed the route and reopened it and did another drive around everything seemed to be fine.

At a guess, perhaps the data caching process had not been completed for the upgraded route - the upgrade to HD does increase the route data size by about 5x.

A common problem of the converted routes in both cases is that sections of roads and track have texture appearing through them. Using the smoothing tool fixes all these issues, but it takes a while to fix this stuff before I can really start the real work on the route.

A known issue that is covered in an earlier post by Tony.

I wouldn't be too concerned about tidying things up at this stage as it's likely the bug fix will resolve smoothing out these areas automatically.

 

[Yorkshire]

I was attempting to replicate your problem but there was not enough information. Could you please post the kuid of the object you have installed and are trying to access?

Hi Thanks, The object is "Enhanced TRC3 Invisible Interlocking Tower" by PGuy

Kuid is kuid2:61392:8101.78

 

[capdiamont]

Installed fresh copy, with seperate data folder as this version has performance issues. No issues installing. 1st time for menu was extremely slow, after that, better but slower than normal.

Tried downloading Kickstarter Country, crashed to the first menu. Got back in, no sessions for kickstarter country. Rebuilt database, and sessions show up. Ran Fossil Fuel session, other than performance, everything seemed normal. Between driving under the overpass to almost the town, the world turns black and objects are drastically reduced. Rebuilding database didn't help. Ran the session several times with same result. Submitted bug report.

Bug report wanted to know if bug was reproduceable in test map. Used surveyor 2, created 3x3 map, no hills or other scenery, and a loop. Tried fixing wonky track, Survey 2 crashed back to first menu. Got back in, didn't see my map. Put loop on single baseboard. Put locomotive on track. Went to drive, asked me if I wanted to save. Saved route, and it crashed after saving. Got back in, found route, edited and drove it. No problems driving. I need to see if can reproduce Surveyor bugs before submitting bug reports. Haven't tested HD terrain features yet.

Trainz doesn't always want to quit, so I have to force quit. I need to see if I can reproduce this before submitting.

 

[pware]

Hi Thanks, The object is "Enhanced TRC3 Invisible Interlocking Tower" by PGuy

Kuid is kuid2:61392:8101.78

Thanks. I have now downloaded and installed that asset into Trainz Plus beta.

I was able to add the asset to a layout and open its menu - after placing in the layout, select the asset with the Free Move Tool or Fine Adjustment Tool then either click on its Context Icon (a track and arrow icon in a black circle) OR press the "T" key.

The last item in the popup menu is Edit Properties. Click this to open the properties of the Interlocking Tower. This will give you access to its scheduling and other controls.

At least that is how it worked for me.

Is this the issue you are having?

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Trainz doesn't always want to quit, so I have to force quit.

Generally (but not always) waiting longer will result in the game quitting. It sounds like the force quit will be leaving something ion the wrong state, so a db repair should run automatically, and if it doesn't a manual repair is advised.

 

[Yorkshire]

I was able to add the asset to a layout and open its menu - after placing in the layout, select the asset with the Free Move Tool or Fine Adjustment Tool then either click on its Context Icon (a track and arrow icon in a black circle) OR press the "T" key.

Thank you very much for trying this out for me, yes, that is the issue I am having. That is the procedure I am following. When I open the properties box, all I get is a large black box titled 'Properties - Interlocking Tower 1902', two smaller options below this 'Script Properties' & 'Activity Log', neither of which can be opened, and 'Save Changes/Cancel' at the bottom. The expected menu to set paths as used to happen does not appear for me. When I go into Classic Surveyor, the same dialogue box appears. I wonder if something has possibly been corrupted in the download process but everything else works as expected. When I find time, I might download a new copy of Trainz22+ on to my laptop and see if the same happens! Oh the trials & tribulations of Trainz at times! Thanks again so much for testing it out and your response. I shall persevere!

Yorkshire