Ongoing Investigation: SP6 Route Performance & Redraw Issues

[Sanek17]

Yes, I have a feeling that they don’t turn it on at all, their game

 

[paulper]

I don’t claim to be an expert with this topic, but why if my route uses under 16GB of my 32GB of memory, and a lesser proportion of available GPU memory, are there memory issues or a need to restrict memory use?

 

[AV3]

Okay, I have to ask. Is it the memory in the RAM sticks that's being limited or is it the GPU VRAM that's being limited?

 

[constar261]

Okay, I have to ask. Is it the memory in the RAM sticks that's being limited or is it the GPU VRAM that's being limited?

This right here is the question thats been on my mind as well.

 

[whywon]

Just did a quick test on the Pennsylvania and Berwind 2.0 with SP6 hotfix. I have the settings mostly on low with a 10,000m draw distance. When the camera is moving in driver, I get 17-22 FPS with over 95% CPU load, about 40% GPU load, and 6GB of RAM being used. My specs are in my signature below.

 

[jaur1]

After extensive research, i can confirm that in my case, sp6 hf1 has fixed minor rendering issues that i had in sp6, but the average frame rate is a disheartening 30-40 % lower than sp4.
The route i am working in is really dense with hundreds of self made sketchup bulidings (no lods), and thousands of speed trees. But it works flawlessly in sp4, where i get with my rig ( 64gb ram nvidia 5080) an average of 50-90 fps even in the most heavy areas.
Another failed update....

 

[pdkoester]

I don't know if it matters but I went ahead and turned up all settings in the launcher and the in-game settings to the highest levels (some labeled Ultra) and the performance seems the same, so I am not losing anything.
The GTX 1080 in my system boasts 8GB of VRAM, but is only using under 5 (4.7 to be exact) with it all cranked up.

 

[JCitron]

This right here is the question thats been on my mind as well.

From what I gather it's neither. This memory limitation has to do with the in-game memory budget. Every program, and in particular graphics intensive games, has a memory allocation budget used by the various tasks, threads, and information. In the olden days, programs were compiled to work within a very tiny memory space, i.e. 8K or 16K. Back then, total system memory was a precious commodity and the programmers had to ensure that their programs were able to fit and operate within some very tight limits. In earlier times, even 8K was too generous when the total system RAM was only 8K and the compiler created executables that operated in a much smaller space!

This is still done today, but with much larger numbers. With Trainz, the various processes, assets, scripts, multiple threads, and everything else going on need to fit within the budget allocated for the processing. With SP6, the goal was to make the program more efficient and use less memory, however, the programmers made the pool too small causing the issues we saw.

In the end, we can have 128GB and still run into the same issue as you saw and so did many others including myself with a system that has 64GB of RAM installed.

 

[nugget2225]

I don't claim to be an expert either. I don't know the guts of Trainz and how it functions. Could it be possible for pc users to have a toggle in settings that changes the internal memory limits back to sp4 or sp5? Like i have mentioned earlier, Trying to reduce the internal memory footprint so pc's and consoles are cross platform. For alot of us that will never use consoles or have lower end pc's, The toggle option could be there to build routes that are compatible with console with the toggle off option with a warning turning the memory limit will make your route incompatible with consoles. I am just throwing ideas's out there. I can't remember which trainz build i was on, But Internal memory had to be really high. At one point i was using up to 30gb of system ram. Although I never had stutters or rendering issues.

 

[Swordfish]

Now, with the hotfix, do you recommend updating, or should I wait to the next hotfix?

Thank you very much for your suggestions.

Regards
Swordfish

 

[nugget2225]

I would say it's plenty stable enough if you want to upgrade from SP5 to SP6 Then the hotfix. I don't know your hardware configuration, Not that it matter's.

 

[passanger]

Another thing I noticed since SP6 HF1 is CPU and GPU usage decreased. So, I would expect the game uses available resources and don't glitch. But indeed it uses 40% and glitches. Why?

 

[nugget2225]

I have no idea if they have any plans for another hotfix. I am going to assume yes, But that's just my opinion, from all the public testing the hotfix. We can only hope.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

Hi there
I got the update from N3V and tested it on two different versions. Build: 132285 (after update) TRS22 PE and Build: 132284 (after update) TRS22+
I'm surprised, it works.Tracks, splines, everything is now displayed. :thumbs_up:I just had to lower my distance setting a bitbut that's due to my slightly older GTX 1070.
This is what it looks like now in the Maschen marshalling yard and the Hamburg map:

Perhaps it's time to upgrade.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

From this we can conclude - we have nothing to do with it, it is you who put everything in the game... Although in SP5 everything worked fine, but now it just lags and takes a very long time to load on powerful computers. Couldn't you just add trees without messing with the scripts?

Wow, so many people with problems.... so many people with problems unwilling to work with N3V to help solve them.

I am DONE solving THEIR problems. They're so incompetent it's ridiculous. They need to clean up the mess they made. After all of the bug reports, complaints on here and support, I've come to realize they don't care about the customer. This is why I say we all should boycott. That's the only way they'll learn.

I help N3V by purchasing the yearly 'Trainz Plus Gold' subscription (so financially) so they can hire more staff or use that money to improve the game. I also test the beta's that can be downloaded as part of the 'Trainz Plus Gold' yearly subscription, so I feel that is my help to them.

SP6 should not have been released especially because of the Treez. I don't believe that they are anywhere near ready for prime time. I'm pretty sure I read on here somewhere that the new Treez don't move in the wind. If that is true (which it may not be), is another feature that we will be losing.

This is N3V for you in a nutshell.

We tested and complained, and complained again. When SP6 became a release candidate, it was released anyway even after bug reports were sent in. We were told it was our routes and content that was causing the problem and not the service pack due to the magic lower memory now used by TRS22 and family.

As is typical, the procedure is to blame the users until there's a huge outcry from the community then reluctantly eat crow. We've seen this play out many times over the years.

Now you're starting to see why I get so upset about the things they do. Someone is finally starting to realize they're the problem and not us.

"We'll fix it later" has been the famous line here for a very long time. I've said this before. This reminds me of an old house in bad need of a new roof and plumbing but the owner repaints the parlor and puts in a swimming pool instead.

Having said this, we don't know what's going on inside N3V's virtual walls. There could be some administrative and corporate financial pressures placed on the company we're not aware of, or who knows what's driving the quick pace to put out new products. We've seen this before not only with T: ANE but also with other companies that are put under pressure to come out with new product and improvements come hell or high water.

I don't care about what pressures they're facing. Someone needs to grow a pair and stand up to the boss and openly refuse to obey because doing so compromises the integrity of the brand and the product. Even if people get fired for mutiny or insubordination. Something must change or more people will walk away from this game

"We'll fix it later" has been the famous line here for a very long time. I've said this before. This reminds me of an old house in bad need of a new roof and plumbing but the owner repaints the parlor and puts in a swimming pool instead.

@Tony_Hilliam needs to change that tone. Instead, he needs to pledge everything we're working on will be stopped until these issues are fixed and will start doing so immediately.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

 

[HPL]

What I get in SP6 HF1 (route: "Muskanippee Valley Railroad") when everything has always been OK before: between 10 and 15FPS. Why does the game only use 40% of the GPU, 5GB (out of 24) VRAM and 11GB (out of 32) RAM? Frametime varies between 30 and over 100ms...

 

[pdkoester]

What I get in SP6 HF1 (route: "Muskanippee Valley Railroad") when everything has always been OK before: between 10 and 15FPS. Why does the game only use 40% of the GPU, 5GB (out of 24) VRAM and 11GB (out of 32) RAM? Frametime varies between 30 and over 100ms...

I wonder how good this works with multiple cores, too? This really needs to soak up the RAM, VRAM, and Processor. I still have everything max settings right now. On my system I am seeing only 4.7/8GB VRAM on GTX 1080 used, 16% of 12400F CPU utilization, and 7.6/32GB DDR5 6000 in use.

 

[JCitron]

As long as the program works smoothly, I don't care how much computer is being used. The fact that my video card CPU run a lot cooler with this version is not such a bad thing compared to SP5 and below.

 

[HPL]

The problem here is that it doesn't work smoothly anymore in this route... when it always did up to SP5.