Ongoing Investigation: SP6 Route Performance & Redraw Issues

[bolivar]

This may all be true, but the memory reduction by N3V caused a lot more issues than it solved. I didn’t hear a lot of complaints with the way it was.

Right on the money Paul. N3V has form with their dud updates. One step forward, two steps back is, unfortunately, the status quo. The number of hotfixes attest to this. Something called quality assurance is lacking when it comes to N3V service packs.
Service Packs are supposed to enhance and actually improve the sim. Not make it worse.

 

[dangavel]

I have uploaded to the DLS a bunch of sages that were performance killers in SP5, they all use png files instead of tga's and are now in a library and have had LOD modifications, bringing triangle counts down to 77,000 from what was previously over a million. I claim no credit for this its all down to montanawestern and pcas1986 with help from a few others on the way . If this proves successful I will apply this to all my vegetation assets , as these were killing my new route.

I found that after moving from 2019 to 2022, the ability of the software to handle these assets and a whole lot of JVC items that had never caused many performance issues previously became a major problem, even with a 12gb card and a new PC that ought to have been able to handle everything with ease. A 1660ti 6gb laptop ran all my routes ok in 2019, no chance of that with 2022. It looks like I will have to update all of my routes to try and overcome these issues unless the latest SP6 patch is going to do the job.

Anyone using my sage/shrub assets wil hopefully eventually be able to replace them with the updated items but its going to take a long time for me to do so, I'll start with those that I need to use and gradually work through the whole of the DG/minky/ jvc blueprint assets where there are no other options out there on the DLS. If anyone has the ability to apply the 2019 fixes to the older jvc grass assets they would be doing a lot of people a favor as there are precious few decent grasses out there that look reasonable or which don't crash routes .

 

[pcas1986]

I don’t understand why it is important to reduce the memory usage, especially since memory is so cheap today. Why is it important to impose memory limits? Also some of the asset creators are no longer active so there assets will never get updated. Maybe that is not what memory management is all about.

There have always been complaints about assets that were killers of system performance and/or "broke the rules". Poorly written scripts, for example, that never terminated and consumed endless processing cycles. It was those scripts that forced the introduction of "time-out" restrictions. There were creators who found it easier to fiddle with the asset build number than to fix the problem with their asset.

Without knowing for certain, as I am not an N3V "insider", the memory management system they introduced (or intended to introduce) may go a long way to fixing these memory/processing performance issues.

My reading of the explanation by N3V is that it is memory management within the confines of Windows memory management. How that may apply to Macs I have no idea. Paul Olsen also said there are routes and locos that hit memory limits very quickly. That, I expect, would cause memory swapping to disk and that would cause Trainz to slow.

I'm also curious how much overhead is required by Trainz to keep obsolete scripts compatible with TRS19 and TRS22. There are an awful lot of obsolete scripted assets assets on the DLS.

 

[coble12]

One step forward, two steps back is, unfortunately, the status quo.

Exactly what I was going to say. It's like clockwork. I'll hold out full judgement until they explain exactly what their memory management does, if they ever will. However, I'd venture a guess that there are (way) more users with at least semi-capable machines than those attempting to run Trainz on decade old laptops with integrated graphics/overall low-specs, yet they seem to always make decisions which cater to the latter, to the detriment of the sim. Either way, I'm sick of it and will be sticking to my current build number for the time being. Why am I paying for Plus Gold when they just make Trainz worse for my more than capable hardware?

 

[constar261]

Why Are High-End Users Being Penalized for Memory Management?​

Back in 2020, I built what I thought would be the ultimate Trainz machine. Two years of planning, $15K later, all for one purpose — to run Trainz at its absolute best.


Here are the specs:

• CPU: AMD Threadripper 3970x (Gen 3)
• RAM: 256GB DDR4 @ 3600MHz
• GPU: RTX 4090
• Storage: Multiple SSDs and hybrid drives (basically data center levels of I/O)
• PSU: 2x EVGA P+ 1600w

I knew Trainz was a resource hog — especially with massive routes, detailed locos, and tons of 3rd party content. That’s why I built this rig. My thinking was simple: if I throw enough horsepower at it, I’ll be able to crank Trainz up as far as I want.


But here’s what I’ve come to realize: the settings I see in Trainz aren’t always the settings I’m actually getting. N3V has memory management running in the background, within the limits of Windows memory management, that overrides user settings.


Paul Olsen pointed out that some routes and locos can hit memory ceilings very quickly. That leads to memory swapping to disk — which tanks performance. Okay, fair enough. But instead of tackling the real issues (like broken assets, bad scripts, or obsolete script overhead), N3V seems to have applied a blanket throttle to everyone through forced memory management.


The problems aren’t new:

• Obsolete scripts are still supported for compatibility, which adds overhead.
• Poorly written scripts that never terminate can eat cycles forever, which is why timeouts were added in the first place.
• Some content creators just bump the build number instead of fixing problems, leaving performance-killing assets in circulation.

Instead of dealing with that legacy baggage, the answer seems to be “cap Trainz so nobody breaks it.” And the result? Even with a workstation-class PC built specifically for this sim, I’m being treated like someone running on a 10-year-old laptop with integrated graphics.


That makes the in-game settings feel redundant. Why pick 5km draw distance if the back-end quietly clamps it lower? Why build a system with 256GB of RAM if Trainz refuses to use it?


Until N3V explains exactly what their memory management system is doing, I’m holding judgment. But right now, it feels like paying for Plus Gold actually gets me less control and worse performance on hardware that could easily handle more.


Why should high-end users be penalized for bad assets and decade-old machines? At the very least, give us an Advanced Mode with transparency (tell me if you’re overriding my settings) and a true override option (let me use my hardware to its fullest, and if it breaks, that’s on me).


I built this system for Trainz. I pay for the top subscription tier. I expected the freedom to run the sim at the limits of my hardware. Instead, I feel like I’m being held back by decisions aimed at the lowest common denominator.


Anyone else here feel the same way?

 

[EvanGaines]

Trainz, I'm still having Lagging issues on my PC with SP6, is there a way you can get rid of the extreme lag. Because, if not, then I'm gonna get a new PC that works with Trainz.

 

[royrepie]

Thank you.... I just want to update my windows (non-steam) software straight to the hotfix and not the broken SP6. I don't want to press install now on the windows menu and it install the non-fixed version.

You are welcome hope it goes well for you.

 

[pware]

Trainz, I'm still having Lagging issues on my PC with SP6, is there a way you can get rid of the extreme lag. Because, if not, then I'm gonna get a new PC that works with Trainz.

Details please. What Trainz build number are you using? (see number at the bottom left of the Launcher). Are you using the original SP6 or the fix that was recently released? What route is causing this problem?

Have you listed the dependencies of that route (or routes) in descending size order to get an idea if there are any memory "hoggers" cluttering up the route?

 

[Paul_Bert]

From my standpoint, I build routes and sessions not paying much attention to the resources required by each asset. I just want to build a route that appeals to me. I just don't understand the need for memory management. Before memory management there were x number of people experiencing a problem, probably ones with older systems. With memory management it seems like there are 2x number of people experiencing problems. How is memory management helping? How are users equipped to find memory hogs? As a non-technical user how should I go about finding them, and then replacing them with assets that are more memory friendly.

What is the harm in keeping the memory management the same as it was?

 

[nugget2225]

All my issues seemed to have gone away for the most part. I had Industries vanishing, And severe rendering problems. Stutters have also stopped for the most part. I do get a stutter rarely when moving around in surveyor. To put that in prospective, I am running trains on port tilamook
From the download station, heavily modified with all pbr textures, currently updating most assets for personal use. I have 36 Consists spread across the map with at least 800 pieces of rolling stock. All my settings are on medium and high, no Ultra settings. I will
continue to post as the route is modified. The slight lag spikes I hope will be fixed.

 

[nugget2225]

From my standpoint, I build routes and sessions not paying much attention to the resources required by each asset. I just want to build a route that appeals to me. I just don't understand the need for memory management. Before memory management there were x number of people experiencing a problem, probably ones with older systems. With memory management it seems like there are 2x number of people experiencing problems. How is memory management helping? How are users equipped to find memory hogs? As a non-technical user how should I go about finding them, and then replacing them with assets that are more memory friendly.

What is the harm in keeping the memory management the same as it was?

I agree with everything you just said for pc user's. I suspect the memory management will be fore consoles, And want to keep us all on the same page. I don't believe Pc's should be limited.

 

[cabnz1]

Why Are High-End Users Being Penalized for Memory Management?​

Back in 2020, I built what I thought would be the ultimate Trainz machine. Two years of planning, $15K later, all for one purpose — to run Trainz at its absolute best.


Here are the specs:

• CPU: AMD Threadripper 3970x (Gen 3)
• RAM: 256GB DDR4 @ 3600MHz
• GPU: RTX 4090
• Storage: Multiple SSDs and hybrid drives (basically data center levels of I/O)
• PSU: 2x EVGA P+ 1600w

I knew Trainz was a resource hog — especially with massive routes, detailed locos, and tons of 3rd party content. That’s why I built this rig. My thinking was simple: if I throw enough horsepower at it, I’ll be able to crank Trainz up as far as I want.


But here’s what I’ve come to realize: the settings I see in Trainz aren’t always the settings I’m actually getting. N3V has memory management running in the background, within the limits of Windows memory management, that overrides user settings.


Paul Olsen pointed out that some routes and locos can hit memory ceilings very quickly. That leads to memory swapping to disk — which tanks performance. Okay, fair enough. But instead of tackling the real issues (like broken assets, bad scripts, or obsolete script overhead), N3V seems to have applied a blanket throttle to everyone through forced memory management.


The problems aren’t new:

• Obsolete scripts are still supported for compatibility, which adds overhead.
• Poorly written scripts that never terminate can eat cycles forever, which is why timeouts were added in the first place.
• Some content creators just bump the build number instead of fixing problems, leaving performance-killing assets in circulation.

Instead of dealing with that legacy baggage, the answer seems to be “cap Trainz so nobody breaks it.” And the result? Even with a workstation-class PC built specifically for this sim, I’m being treated like someone running on a 10-year-old laptop with integrated graphics.


That makes the in-game settings feel redundant. Why pick 5km draw distance if the back-end quietly clamps it lower? Why build a system with 256GB of RAM if Trainz refuses to use it?


Until N3V explains exactly what their memory management system is doing, I’m holding judgment. But right now, it feels like paying for Plus Gold actually gets me less control and worse performance on hardware that could easily handle more.


Why should high-end users be penalized for bad assets and decade-old machines? At the very least, give us an Advanced Mode with transparency (tell me if you’re overriding my settings) and a true override option (let me use my hardware to its fullest, and if it breaks, that’s on me).


I built this system for Trainz. I pay for the top subscription tier. I expected the freedom to run the sim at the limits of my hardware. Instead, I feel like I’m being held back by decisions aimed at the lowest common denominator.


Anyone else here feel the same way?

I also hope that we are not being held back because they have an Xbox version now. Train Sim World (TSW) are now finding out that the consoles are not performing as good as PC's and some DLC's are not being released for older consoles.

Trainz Simulator: World Tour ( Xbox )

Again, I hope consoles are not going to hold as back!

 

[pware]

I also hope that we are not being held back because they have an Xbox version now. Train Sim World (TSW) are now finding out that the consoles are not performing as good as PC's and some DLC's are not being released for older consoles.

But haven't the console manufacturers been boasting about how much better their machines are compared to the "old technology" (i.e. PCs)?

If N3V decide not to hold back PC users (assuming that that is even a consideration at all) then no doubt the forums will be flooded with disgruntled console players complaining about not getting a "fair go" and the discrimination from N3V - or is that just sarcasm on my part?

 

[alfredo_20]

I have just installed SP6 with HF1.
Everything works fine!
Well done for providing us with such a quick and effective solution!

 

[HPL]

Is the P&B 2.0 on the DLS?

It is payware from Approach Medium.

 

[PortLineParker]

Have you listed the dependencies of that route (or routes) in descending size order to get an idea if there are any memory "hoggers" cluttering up the route?

I'd be interested in learning how to do this as I can't find anything in CM. Is there something blindingly obvious I'm missing?

Cheers,

PLP

 

[pware]

Have you listed the dependencies of that route (or routes) in descending size order to get an idea if there are any memory "hoggers" cluttering up the route?

I'd be interested in learning how to do this as I can't find anything in CM. Is there something blindingly obvious I'm missing?

It is well hidden in CM.

1. Right click on any column heading to open the column menu. Select Insert Column and select a column name (e.g. File Size) from the list of available columns that are hidden from view
2. You can left click and drag columns by their headings left or right to place them in any desired order
3. You can resize column widths by a left click and drag on the dividing line between the column headings
4. Left click on a column heading to sort the data based on the contents of that column. Each left click will cycle through different sorting options.

 

[nugget2225]

After playing for 5 hours in a row, I started have more stutters, and track rendering problems. After I leave the game and come back, It seems to solve the problem. I kinda like the suggestions from above. Please don't put memory limit's on pc users. This will pop up in the future regardless. If the developers are trying to cap pc players to keep us on an even keel with consoles, it's going to become a big issues. I don't know what the future plans are, So i don't know. Just my observations. SP5 I didn't have issues at all. Gameplay was extremely smooth regardless of what i was doing.

 

[wreeder]

I don't think N3V is talking about the memory management built into Windows. It is more likely they are restricting the size of the cache they use to preload assets from the storage device (hence the stutters) and then limiting the cache used to feed assets to the GPU. (the items not rendering properly)

 

[pdkoester]

I still want to know what are the specs of the systems used by NV3 developers, or whoever does QA/QC, and verifies there is no lag, no stuttering, and the max draw distance is working, all settings at highest level? Is it impossible, a farse?