Making some boulders
- Thread starter Dinorius_Redundicus
- Start date
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
I can see the need for consistency on all sides, but the one on the left which has “gone wrong”, with valleys rather than bumps, gives a darned good representation of water or wind eroded sandstone.
I like it.
Perhaps you have found a method of creating an “eroded” series.
I like it.
Perhaps you have found a method of creating an “eroded” series.
Shortline2
Joined: 28th Oct. 2002
Hi Deane,
As far as I know, the moment you use a mirror mode in gmax/3D modeling tool of choice, it will also mirror the bump map. Only way around that if really needing a mirrored version of the texture is to make it in the texture making process and adding it to the texture, and therefore also add in a corrected bump effect in the normal map creation.
Complicated, stupid, I agree, but that is the way to do it as far as I know.
I did some mirrored stuff my self, on some roof, messed up my normal map effect a little, but figured, not to bother with it, was not that easy to spot and till this day, no-one has complained to me so...
As others say above, it actually looks great with the mirrored effect, but sure, for some other stuff it might not look to good, so it is a good thing to figure out how to best make it, like I see you are trying to do.
And, yes, I agree, I would have though the program would be able to also mirror the normal map, but, sadly, it don't look like it can, darn, one day in the future maybe such help will happen in our 3D creation programs.
Keep up the good work, and I am happy you got lot of good advice from others about the mesh library setup.
Best wishes
Linda
As far as I know, the moment you use a mirror mode in gmax/3D modeling tool of choice, it will also mirror the bump map. Only way around that if really needing a mirrored version of the texture is to make it in the texture making process and adding it to the texture, and therefore also add in a corrected bump effect in the normal map creation.
Complicated, stupid, I agree, but that is the way to do it as far as I know.
I did some mirrored stuff my self, on some roof, messed up my normal map effect a little, but figured, not to bother with it, was not that easy to spot and till this day, no-one has complained to me so...
As others say above, it actually looks great with the mirrored effect, but sure, for some other stuff it might not look to good, so it is a good thing to figure out how to best make it, like I see you are trying to do.
And, yes, I agree, I would have though the program would be able to also mirror the normal map, but, sadly, it don't look like it can, darn, one day in the future maybe such help will happen in our 3D creation programs.
Keep up the good work, and I am happy you got lot of good advice from others about the mesh library setup.
Best wishes
Linda
AFAIK, in 3DS Max you can mirror Normal Mapped objects as much as one wants, never have I experienced the negative effect which you have when mirroring a normal mapped object. This should apply too to GMax but why you get this effect I would not know. Best is not to mirror an object and UVW each object separately in your GMax.
Another way to overcome a negative effect on your object is to have the boulder textured on 2 sides (enabled in the Material Editor) and flipping the normals to correct this if you get the negative effect. But then one gets an outcry from the the one's that think they know better and say this is a no no, as one places too much strain on graphic cards. To this I say "boulderdash" as current graphic cards are very much over engineered and are capable of doing much more nowadays than necessary without straining your PC. But then again, if you do not mirror any objects then this problem would not arise.
I still don't know why you would get the effect you get when mirroring an object. if one makes/exports a correctly set up and generated Normal Map from PhotoShop (with the NVidia plugin filter) one never needs to adjust/change the green channel when using the Max exporter. Didn't you mention recently you do have 3DS Max? Give it a try with 3DS Max and see how you go with that.
Good luck
VinnyBarb
Another way to overcome a negative effect on your object is to have the boulder textured on 2 sides (enabled in the Material Editor) and flipping the normals to correct this if you get the negative effect. But then one gets an outcry from the the one's that think they know better and say this is a no no, as one places too much strain on graphic cards. To this I say "boulderdash" as current graphic cards are very much over engineered and are capable of doing much more nowadays than necessary without straining your PC. But then again, if you do not mirror any objects then this problem would not arise.
I still don't know why you would get the effect you get when mirroring an object. if one makes/exports a correctly set up and generated Normal Map from PhotoShop (with the NVidia plugin filter) one never needs to adjust/change the green channel when using the Max exporter. Didn't you mention recently you do have 3DS Max? Give it a try with 3DS Max and see how you go with that.
Good luck
VinnyBarb
Dinorius_Redundicus
kuid 68213
@Linda - thanks for the suggestion on the mesh library, at least that seems to be working. As for the normal map behaviour, it really sucks from a modeller's perspective because it means I can't control how it looks in Trainz. The bumps look right in PEV's mesh viewer, it's only in Trainz (TS2010) that this happens.
I find it disappointing and a bit wierd that nobody ever mentions this rather fundamental problem when they're raving on about normal maps...
Unless someone chips in with a genuine solution, I think my only option is to adopt a non-mirror texturing strategy, such as Spherical or Cylinder mapping. The trouble is that they produce little swirly screwed up areas at the top and bottom which look bad.
Do people who use 3DSMax or Blender also see this problem?
@BobCass - Bob I think the size of the bumps looks OK. On bigger boulders, which will use the same texture, I'm guessing the bumps will look smaller in proportion to the size of the boulder.
Edit: @Vinnybarb - thanks Herbert, I just read your note after posting this. My hopes rest on your suggestions. 2-sided sounds like a good idea at this point. And yes, I do have 3DSMax but haven't really found a reason to use it (perhaps until now!).
I find it disappointing and a bit wierd that nobody ever mentions this rather fundamental problem when they're raving on about normal maps...
Unless someone chips in with a genuine solution, I think my only option is to adopt a non-mirror texturing strategy, such as Spherical or Cylinder mapping. The trouble is that they produce little swirly screwed up areas at the top and bottom which look bad.
Do people who use 3DSMax or Blender also see this problem?
@BobCass - Bob I think the size of the bumps looks OK. On bigger boulders, which will use the same texture, I'm guessing the bumps will look smaller in proportion to the size of the boulder.
Edit: @Vinnybarb - thanks Herbert, I just read your note after posting this. My hopes rest on your suggestions. 2-sided sounds like a good idea at this point. And yes, I do have 3DSMax but haven't really found a reason to use it (perhaps until now!).
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RoysTrainz
Rembrandt van Trainz
got side tracked by your Thai picture for a good reason my wife thinks
Hi Dean superb idea and lookin forward to some real great boulders!
Dean I see your picture of the wat and Thai atmosphere and feel you kind of fall in love with this country which is not unusual for many 'falangs'.
Ning my wife is still in a 'delirium triplex' after we organised with other Thai people the first Phu Tai festival International here in Khao Wong province Kalasin.
the PM Yingluck Shinawatra visited sunday and spent quite some time with Ning and me too.
We work to make the NE mountain region the heart of the Phue Thai party grow and make sustainable tourism. Call me the falang Ambassador for this region:hehe:
On the picture with the PM in thailand is for most people out of reach so Nings excitement about this event is understandable
I know has nothing to do with boulders though and yes we have plenty of sandstone ones and granite too and very old 400 million year lava in the valley here.
If you look at my route i post now for a long time you see the need for a variety of rocks.
Hi Dean superb idea and lookin forward to some real great boulders!
Dean I see your picture of the wat and Thai atmosphere and feel you kind of fall in love with this country which is not unusual for many 'falangs'.
Ning my wife is still in a 'delirium triplex' after we organised with other Thai people the first Phu Tai festival International here in Khao Wong province Kalasin.
the PM Yingluck Shinawatra visited sunday and spent quite some time with Ning and me too.
We work to make the NE mountain region the heart of the Phue Thai party grow and make sustainable tourism. Call me the falang Ambassador for this region:hehe:
On the picture with the PM in thailand is for most people out of reach so Nings excitement about this event is understandable
I know has nothing to do with boulders though and yes we have plenty of sandstone ones and granite too and very old 400 million year lava in the valley here.
If you look at my route i post now for a long time you see the need for a variety of rocks.
RoysTrainz
Rembrandt van Trainz
yep competely off track but on track for sure in thailand
thanks bob i will for sure, i am a little bit shy but Ning was extremely proud to pose next to thailands PM and had to react to Dean's Thai picture in his thread as i can feel he loves thailand more and more.
warmest regards
Roy n Ning
thanks bob i will for sure, i am a little bit shy but Ning was extremely proud to pose next to thailands PM and had to react to Dean's Thai picture in his thread as i can feel he loves thailand more and more.
warmest regards
Roy n Ning
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Deane
You were right, that was the wrong category code . Should be HM. However, even with the wrong code, CM placed it correctly so perhaps it didn't matter and the DLS didn't mind either.
Peter
You were right, that was the wrong category code . Should be HM. However, even with the wrong code, CM placed it correctly so perhaps it didn't matter and the DLS didn't mind either.
Peter
Dinorius_Redundicus
kuid 68213
@ Ning - now you are really famous. First you save Roy's life from killer bees and now you are personal friends with Yingluck (I wish all our politicians were so "suay"). Thanks for the photo, it made for an interesting diversion from talk about rocks!
@ Roy - if you have any good pictures of the local granite, feel free to send them to me, maybe I can use them for future boulder textures.
@ Peter - yes, it makes you wonder what the category-class information is for. Maybe it just helps the DLS know where to put it, nothing more?
Now I just want to get home from work and try Vinnybarb's suggestions to solve this bumpy rock problem....I will post results soon.
@ Roy - if you have any good pictures of the local granite, feel free to send them to me, maybe I can use them for future boulder textures.
@ Peter - yes, it makes you wonder what the category-class information is for. Maybe it just helps the DLS know where to put it, nothing more?
Now I just want to get home from work and try Vinnybarb's suggestions to solve this bumpy rock problem....I will post results soon.
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Dinorius_Redundicus
kuid 68213
Sorry to say, but 2-sided texture she no worky. The boulder made in gmax still has bumps on one side and valleys on the other...actually when I think about it, I'm not surprised since it's the green channel of the normal texture that is made 'wrong' by mirroring the texture. A 2-sided texture will fix flipped polygon normals but it won't cure the flipped green (Y direction) channel of a normal map.
OK, so I had a go at 3DSMax - put the diffuse map in the Diffuse slot, my normal map (specified as a 'Normal Bump' type) went into the Bump slot at 100% and I did nothing about the specular alpha channel of the normal map since I got no clear idea from that other forum thread or the Wiki about specular. Alas, the resulting boulder didn't even have bumps this time, just the flat diffuse texture! So much for my first use of 3DSMax.
OK, so I had a go at 3DSMax - put the diffuse map in the Diffuse slot, my normal map (specified as a 'Normal Bump' type) went into the Bump slot at 100% and I did nothing about the specular alpha channel of the normal map since I got no clear idea from that other forum thread or the Wiki about specular. Alas, the resulting boulder didn't even have bumps this time, just the flat diffuse texture! So much for my first use of 3DSMax.
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Dinorius_Redundicus
kuid 68213
Maybe this should be in the Freeware Announcements now
After floundering around in the unfamiliar waters of 3DSMax, I went back to gmax. With help from some other threads and Adobe Photoshop (with NVidia and PixPlant plug-ins), I finally got normal maps made and working. I made a series of 10 sandstone boulders, 1 - 10m in size. This one is the big daddy of the family. They will be on the DLS soon.
After floundering around in the unfamiliar waters of 3DSMax, I went back to gmax. With help from some other threads and Adobe Photoshop (with NVidia and PixPlant plug-ins), I finally got normal maps made and working. I made a series of 10 sandstone boulders, 1 - 10m in size. This one is the big daddy of the family. They will be on the DLS soon.
ShadyCadence
New member
Very nice! Can't wait to finally build some decent looking cliffs and rock faces!
misterchugg
Active member
nicely done thanks
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