If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

It's called progress, whether it's forwards, sideways or backwords depends on your point of view and how deep your pocket is.

At least Auran do not charge £10 a loco and £3 a single payware wagon.

I feel the cost of each version is quite in line with the improvements made from year to year.

Anyone who had the Community Edition of Trainz in Dec 2001 and compare it to TS2010. Must surely be able to se the huge improvement, version on version over the last 9+ years.

I have both Trainz & RailFail and i know of the two which is giving me value for money, in my opinion of course.

IKB.
 
£3 a single payware wagon.
+1 on that sentiment.
Posted as much on UKTS (below Mike10's similar raised eyebrow) this morning, expect it will be censored out later as happened to my comment about why Steam wiped my DVD version of IOW.

Anyhow, back OT, despite the current issues I'm having with performance in Surveyor, stand by what I've posted in other threads that TS2010 is basically the train simmers bible, encyclopaedia (take your pick) as regards rolling stock, motive power and other assets.
 
It's called progress, whether it's forwards, sideways or backwords depends on your point of view and how deep your pocket is.
" the definition of progress:the effort to make things like they use to be. ":hehe::hehe::p "have a nice day"
 
At least Auran do not charge £10 a loco and £3 a single payware wagon.

IKB.

Yet those who model in HO, N, or what ever else seem to have no issue with paying far more per model.

A decent HO model can cost well over $100.00 USA. I don't think a $10 or $20 cost for a well crafted digital model is really all that bad... ;)
 
Yet those who model in HO, N, or what ever else seem to have no issue with paying far more per model.

A decent HO model can cost well over $100.00 USA. I don't think a $10 or $20 cost for a well crafted digital model is really all that bad... ;)
Try living on my wage then, try making that statement again without felling a complete hypocrite!
icon8.gif

Or try working out the amount of rolling stock you've got and then put a price on it all, and lets say for arguments sake, that they are all to the same standard.
Large engines $20
Medium engines $15
Small engines $10
Carriages $15
Large wagons $8
Small wagons $4
Not a cheep little hobby now, is it?
 
I agree with Edrick, Vern, and David. It's time we move on.

TS2010 is by far the best version of this simulation I have used so far. I started with TRS2004, although I did dabble with the earlier versions, but could never get it to work properly due to a really bad video card. Anyway, the reasons for the better error-checking are pretty obvious. The performance stability is much better than before. In TRS2004, I would have random crashes to the desktop that would drive me crazy. I could never pin-point exactly what the problem was because the error checking was minimal. It wasn't until TRS2009 that I could actually find the errant asset, and once that was fixed, the random crash went away.

The better error checking also improves the overall performance in the long run. Granted right now there are still teathing problems, as Vern as found. I've had a few myself, which I am trying to figure out at the moment. Mine maybe due to aging hardware because I've had problems in other programs as well that are hardware intensive. But the point is, when the program doesn't have to do in-simulation (in-game) error checking and parsing, this leaves more room for efficient performance, better AI response, as well as less movement stuttering because the program isn't stopping all the time to check the code of the loading assets.

I agree that having better updated CC guides would help, but in many cases as I've and others have pointed out before, the content creators simply copied previously created config files that had errors in them in the first place. Granted I blame a lot of this on the original content creators, thus many of the built-in Auran created content has blatent errors. But... if the compiler doesn't tell you that you made a typo, how are you to find out? So this still goes back to the original error checking which was minimal in the beginning.

Moving ahead to the new way of doing things is the best for all of us. If we were to stay, as David pointed out, with old stuff, we'd still be using CP/M and MS-DOS, and would never have the graphics we have today on the desktop. Now that we have the hardware to handle the stuff we have today, why not write programs properly to make use of it.

At this point, I am running 100% in Native mode. I fixed the assets I use. This took some time in the beginning, but it has been worth it. Now when I download new items from the DLS, I check and fix them immediately. This little bit of extra time spent before diving right into the simulation, has proven its self more than once.

I can say that lately the content is getting much better. Many of the new assets I have downloaded recently have had no errors at all. This is unlike before when I've had to go through and fix simple typos in the config files, like Nightmode = 7 instead of 1, which should be a binary value, Catigory-era = N instead of Category-era=N. These simple mistakes can cause an asset to be inoperable in TS2009 and TS2010.

I could go on, and I'm sure I've stirred the pot more with some extra oil on the fire.

@ED - I co-mingle amongst the classes. When I was working I used to hang out with the cleaning guy as well as the CEO at the companies I used to work at. ;)

John
 
Yet those who model in HO, N, or what ever else seem to have no issue with paying far more per model.

A decent HO model can cost well over $100.00 USA. I don't think a $10 or $20 cost for a well crafted digital model is really all that bad... ;)

Try living on Invalidity Benefit of £93 per week.

Then you would not be so free and easy, spending £10 here and £10 there for every trainsim release.

If i could afford to model in OO or HO, then i wouldn't be bothering with trainsims.

IKB.
 
Try living on my wage then, try making that statement again without felling a complete hypocrite!
icon8.gif

Or try working out the amount of rolling stock you've got and then put a price on it all, and lets say for arguments sake, that they are all to the same standard.
Not a cheep little hobby now, is it?

please correct me if i misinterpret you.

no its isnt cheap, but nobody said it was, and nobody should be held responsible if you cant play. its tough, but thats life. what is it with you types that think everything should be made equal just so you can afford to play? this causes quality to drop significantly, and just the types of things that start threads like this with complaints. youd complain one way or the other. if you really want to buy some item, be it for trainz or railsim, then save that little bit youd otherwise spend until you have enough. i just recently started a new collection of model trains, in 1:29 scale. the BIG ones. i spent $600 or more on just one loco and 3 cars, and i cant wait to save some more money and get more. reason i tell you this, is when i was younger i always wanted them, and never could afford it. so i just had to wait until i could. simple.

someone emailed me yesterday regarding my site, and said more people would download if everything were free... well yea, they would, more people would download, but i would also do a lot less, and it would not be near as good. thats 100% guaranteed. the same goes for these companies making the games.

i also agree that we should probably move ahead with a TRS that only uses native mode content, and weed out the pile of junk known as the DLS.

just mho.
 
Payware: High quality content created by skilled individual (in theory) who has spent hours upon hours researching, studying pictures, and than modeling the content. It is called skilled labor. When one wants skilled labor one must pay for it. It is that simple. $20.00 is not that much for a "model" at all.

Freeware: Lessor quality (although not always) content. Often created buy skilled individuals but with less detail and work put into it. It is also often just simple re-skins of other items.

That said, I have never payed for content for Trainz. I too am not well endowed with a tree in my back yard that grows a constant stream fiat currency for my personal enjoyment. I however am WILLING to pay for that detailed content should I find a need for it. Currently there is a content creator working on some white pine and white pine splines by request. I WILL pay for it when it comes out because I need it for a route I am working on that is based in a Michigan lumbering community. Michigan does not have as many white pine any more as they were all cut down and shipped across the lake to build old Chicago. Then the bloody idiots burnt the damn city down and it all went to waste! But I digress.

Don't complain about the cost of PAYWARE as the reality is you have access to thousands of FREEWARE content. You are NOT entitled to other peoples work for free. Be thankful that some people create for the community, but also be thankful that some people are willing to put hundreds of hours into making high quality content and that they sell it for such a cheap price (in comparison to physical model railroading prices.)

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject.
 
With your attitude i wouldn't buy anything off you, even if i could afford it.

You might also like to learn some punctuation and english grammar.

IKB.

thank you. i probably wouldn't sell to you anyhow, citing security issues.

punctuation and english grammar eh? :hehe:


edit: as i think of it, the native modes of the latest TS packages do tend to move toward weeding out obsolete and junk content. maybe the direction TS is going is actually good for us all.
 
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Don't complain about the cost of PAYWARE as the reality is you have access to thousands of FREEWARE content. You are NOT entitled to other peoples work for free. Be thankful that some people create for the community, but also be thankful that some people are willing to put hundreds of hours into making high quality content and that they sell it for such a cheap price (in comparison to physical model railroading prices.)

Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject.

I pretty much wholly agree with you here, but I want to point out that comparing tangible and virtual modelling prices isn't even remotely fair - there's a world of difference between what has to be done for each buyer for a tangible product, compared to simply making another copy of a bunch of bits, even comparing mass-produced tangible goods to virtual goods isn't fair, never mind one-off production.

That said, I don't particularly bemoan payware producers, like IKB I am on disability, and don't have the income flow to support payware - it's taken me years to get around to being able to splash out on trainz, I'd like a certain other trainsim too, but it's attitude to every little thing having to be payware is offputting. At least here in trainz land, payware vs freeware is an option.
 
I pretty much wholly agree with you here, but I want to point out that comparing tangible and virtual modelling prices isn't even remotely fair - there's a world of difference between what has to be done for each buyer for a tangible product, compared to simply making another copy of a bunch of bits, even comparing mass-produced tangible goods to virtual goods isn't fair, never mind one-off production.

That said, I don't particularly bemoan payware producers, like IKB I am on disability, and don't have the income flow to support payware - it's taken me years to get around to being able to splash out on trainz, I'd like a certain other trainsim too, but it's attitude to every little thing having to be payware is offputting. At least here in trainz land, payware vs freeware is an option.

Exactly, you have an option and most freeware is still rather well done.

You have to agree though, that the $100+ price for a tangible locomotive model vs. the $20 price for the digital model does adjust for the fact that no physical production has taken place. ;)
 
Payware: High quality content created by skilled individual (in theory) who has spent hours upon hours researching, studying pictures, and than modeling the content. It is called skilled labor. When one wants skilled labor one must pay for it. It is that simple. $20.00 is not that much for a "model" at all.

Freeware: Lessor quality (although not always) content. Often created buy skilled individuals but with less detail and work put into it. It is also often just simple re-skins of other items.

Not all payware is high quality, not all freeware is low quality and many freeware items have a lot more time, effort and expertise put into them than some payware items. I have noticed that many Americans find this difficult to accept, they seem to think if you don't pay for something it must be rubbish.

Cheerio John
 
Exactly, you have an option and most freeware is still rather well done.

You have to agree though, that the $100+ price for a tangible locomotive model vs. the $20 price for the digital model does adjust for the fact that no physical production has taken place. ;)

I'm not sure it does, not sufficiently anyway. But again, it's the payware vendor's choice - I just have a lot more respect for the payware vendors out there that are selling at the $5/£3ish mark for a digital download - £10-20/(~$20-40) per loco on RW's pricing is however absurd.

$20 is in the area where I'd expect to get a whole route, and any rolling stock that it uses, TBH.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crohakon
Yet those who model in HO, N, or what ever else seem to have no issue with paying far more per model.

A decent HO model can cost well over $100.00 USA. I don't think a $10 or $20 cost for a well crafted digital model is really all that bad... ;)


Try living on my wage then, try making that statement again without felling a complete hypocrite!
icon8.gif

Or try working out the amount of rolling stock you've got and then put a price on it all, and lets say for arguments sake, that they are all to the same standard.
Quote:
Large engines $20
Medium engines $15
Small engines $10
Carriages $15
Large wagons $8
Small wagons $4


Not a cheep little hobby now, is it?[/quote]

I think that's the nice thing about Trainz is the mixture of payware and freeware. For those who can afford it payware items such as Paul Hobbs steam engines are well worth it. For those who can't there are still a fair number of very reasonable freeware items available. TS2009 is probably worth the 7 quid that amazon.co.uk is asking for it.

On the content creation side the tools and tutorials are free and reskins aren't that difficult so you can create content for free as well. If you have cash then 3ds is an option.

Cheerio John
 
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