What's the verdict with the Steam version of TS2010?

Gandalf0444 said:

Indeed but ultimately STEAM/Valve would have to find a way to release the purchased games to work without phoning home if the company was to go under. Otherwise they would be up to there necks in law suits and criminal charges. You pay for something you are allowed to use it as long as you want to. The same goes here for the now defunct versions of trainz. They cannot access the DLS much if at all but can still be used to there fullest.

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Unfortunately, that's not true, as much as I wish it were. Although the courts have not been fully or solidly in favor of click-wrap agreements, the fact is, virtually all EULAs have a severability or termination clause which allows the software vendor or service an "out." It is these termination clauses that allow a company to end support for a product without having a clearly stated support statement beforehand, as what happened right here with TRS2004/06.

One may be able to convince a court of the unconscionability of EULAs, but I'm not even aware of any lawsuit filed over the loss of use of DRM-protected products, let alone a judgment in a consumer's favor. But, under current law as it stands now, Steam can turn off their DRM servers tomorrow, rendering every Steam product useless, and there isn't a thing users can do, because they agreed to the Terms-of-Service when they registered at Steam AND when they installed Steam-released software.

This is interesting and very informative.

So I can run TRS 2006 without internet, but this new Steam version of 2010 has to maintain internet contact with Steam for the "game" ( I dislike calling it a game) to be usable? If that's how it works, I don't like that idea at all.

Since I'm building my own route and use mostly my own content, would the original bugs of TRS 2010 have any effect? I'm not sure what the original bugs were before 2010 was patched.

Thanks again for all the info.

I recommend buying the disc. If your computer crashes and/or you buy a new computer, you can easily install it on the new computer. However, if all you do is build your own assets and have no interest in downloading assets others have created, then go for the cheap.

Jim; I'm going to post this one LAST time

for your benefit:

So. I bought 2010 through eBay from

http://cgi.ebay.com/TRAINZ-SIMULATOR...em3f05ec c5d6

It arrived in 5 days, was reasonably priced, (about $ 26.00 USD with shipping), and was sealed and new. Inside the cardboard box the plastic box containing the discs and the manual was sealed as well. It installed without error and the serial number for the game was on the back cover of the manual. The game is at SP2, build #42203. The game does not require the discs inserted in the drive to play. In addition, the game came with a bonus!

When I replaced the plastic game box back into the cardboard box I noticed a second manual in the cardboard box, with a serial number on the back cover different than the one I used to install the game. I guess that may explain those poor folks that post about not having a serial number!

I'm pleased with the transaction, and would recommend it to anyone.

If you get one without the manual, I'll gladly ship you my spare!

RRSignal said:

Unfortunately, that's not true, as much as I wish it were. Although the courts have not been fully or solidly in favor of click-wrap agreements, the fact is, virtually all EULAs have a severability or termination clause which allows the software vendor or service an "out." It is these termination clauses that allow a company to end support for a product without having a clearly stated support statement beforehand, as what happened right here with TRS2004/06.

One may be able to convince a court of the unconscionability of EULAs, but I'm not even aware of any lawsuit filed over the loss of use of DRM-protected products, let alone a judgment in a consumer's favor. But, under current law as it stands now, Steam can turn off their DRM servers tomorrow, rendering every Steam product useless, and there isn't a thing users can do, because they agreed to the Terms-of-Service when they registered at Steam AND when they installed Steam-released software.

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True in a sense. However if the Attorney General catches wind of a company that essentially took the money and ran, it will not be the end. It is frowned upon greatly when a company closes up shop but does not continue support for its existing customers.
Example: BFG Tech, made GPUs, and PSUs etc. They closed down. Every GPU they sold came with a 10(lifetime) year warranty. If your GPU fails within that period they are STILL dedicated to RMAing you a replacement. Even though the company is closed. They must do that because it is not legally allowed to happen(although I am sure a lawyer could find a loop hole somewhere if they looked hard enough) But then again a lawyer can find a loop hole in anything and everything if you pay them enough and they have enough time.

So STEAM can still hose it's customers, but the government can still certainly string STEAM up by it's you know whats if they really want to and listen to the customers from all over the globe. So the possibility is there for both ways.

Euphod said:

If you get one without the manual, I'll gladly ship you my spare!

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Thanks Ed, if I go this route, my luck says that I'll get the one without the manual, so your offer to throw me a rope is much appreciated.
Let me see what I can pawn around here..........my son's electric guitar.......he probably won't notice.

So what was the bonus? I hope it was that book you wanted for Christmas. What was it........ obama's ride the rail guide to the best vacation spots?

JimDep said:

So what was the bonus?

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It was er... 'teh' second manual!

Euphod said:

It was er... 'teh' second manual!

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Oh...right on dude:hehe::hehe:.... the Collector's Edition of the 2010 Manual! You don't want to part with that!

That 3rd world vocabulary of yours is becoming a habit eye c.

Gandalf0444 said:

True in a sense. However if the Attorney General catches wind of a company that essentially took the money and ran, it will not be the end. It is frowned upon greatly when a company closes up shop but does not continue support for its existing customers.
Example: BFG Tech, made GPUs, and PSUs etc. They closed down. Every GPU they sold came with a 10(lifetime) year warranty. If your GPU fails within that period they are STILL dedicated to RMAing you a replacement. Even though the company is closed. They must do that because it is not legally allowed to happen(although I am sure a lawyer could find a loop hole somewhere if they looked hard enough) But then again a lawyer can find a loop hole in anything and everything if you pay them enough and they have enough time.

So STEAM can still hose it's customers, but the government can still certainly string STEAM up by it's you know whats if they really want to and listen to the customers from all over the globe. So the possibility is there for both ways.

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This is absolultely correct. My former company went out of business last year, and the tech support department is still operating, abeit supporting only a few companies that still use the equipment only because they can still get materials for it, but the thing is, the tech still has to fly out and fix anything that fails.

There are still parts in inventory, including lasers, motors, and other parts, and the company is required to keep enough inventory to cover any warranty periods that are still valid for these few customers.

I've used a few programs from Steam in the past, and I was never crazy abou them phoning home. The other thing that some DRM management installs have done, like SecuROM (Suck-U-ROM), it only allows a certain number of installs before it feels that the program is being handed out to someone else. SecuROM phones home and disables the program! This stinks because we should be allowed to install something as many times as we wish, particularly if the program has corrupted, or the computer has died or was replaced. This is one of the reasons why I will no longer purchase any programs from EA. The other thing too is they put the SecuROM virus (program) on the hard drive, and it's very difficult to remove from the PC once it's there.

John