you made me spill my coffee
I hope it didn't burn you. I'm glad I made you laugh a little. What we need around here is a little bit of levity. Laughter is the universal healer.
Mike
Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06
- Thread starter mezzoprezzo
- Start date
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I hope it didn't burn you. I'm glad I made you laugh a little. What we need around here is a little bit of levity. Laughter is the universal healer.
Mike
Not liking something is one thing but those who claim TS2010 is the worst thing since (whatever) is another. The new foliage, after SP2, actually looks pretty good, but that's only my opinion, no need to agree. Meanwhile, back on topic, like I said before, stay with whatever version you're happy / comfortable with just don't go denigrating the newer versions or the people that use them.
See, no insults here.
But, aren't some here doing just that for people who prefer older versions? If you take the time to read some of the replies the 10 crowd IS denigrating everyone else.
On topic, riddle me this. What exactly does anyone here against the use of older versions to upload/download to the DLS have to loose if they are continued to do so, provided Auran ups the error checking?
Dave....
rainmaster
New member
Hello Casper,I'm starting this thread in the, possibly, not too forlorn hope that the September changes might just be amended.
Much has been posted elsewhere in the forum, but there appears to be no single thread where people can lend support in an attempt to change a decision which has the capability of causing users and suppliers to loose out in a really big way.
The following is taken from my posting in the General Trains sticky put up by Zec Murphy, "For those experiencing issues with downloading with a FCT after the server transfer". Peter1946 suggested that a new thread be started. Please feel free to support this. You don't have to say much.
_______________________________________________________________
Sorry to see that Auran will be losing another possible customer. I'll be another, potentially.
They really do seem to be missing an opportunity here. The DLS will be sorted out I'm sure - I remember grumbling about this when there was a similar problem after last Christmas/New Year. They fixed it and it flew.
But, preventing potential customers, who want to stay with TRS2004/06 (and 09 eventually), who are prepared to pay (yes I'll say that again in case they've missed it, pay), by buying a FCT or purchasing a (to remain unused) later version is beyond me.
I'm sticking with it for now because, ever the optimist, I'm hopeful that TRS2004 stuff may be allowed to be uploaded and available to paying 04/06 users after September. But it will require a slight shift on the part of Auran. That simple change in position would help to placate and encourage those who want to create and upload their assets - remember the creators are doing it their own time and providing it to us for free!
I make no apology for banging on about this. I'm just hopeful that a bit of peaceful protesting might just help. It will be too late after September.
Meanwhile I'm finding plenty of other sources for Kuid's. There's a stack of stuff out there, but the DLS is easier and is something I'd be prepared to pay for. But not if I cannot have new TRS2004 downloads. It's the new stuff that provides the inspiration and is the antidote to stagnation. Why cut it off?
With regard to product support, all of mine has come from the community, not Auran. TRS2004 support doesn't need paid staff.
The whole sorry business has divided the community, which when I joined seemed united and supportive, (and generally, it still is).
However, to me it really does feel, sometimes, that Auran are killing this hobby!
Casper
You've got my vote. I would pay for a FCT if necessary for the first time.
Not having the DLS is of concern. I have a large library of assets on a removable hard drive. I quite often use the DLS to find missing or updated assets. If they are a KUID xxxxxxx.1 etc, it is fairly easy.
But a lot of updated assets use a completely different KUID.
If the 2004/2006 assets were on a different server, you would still need to be able to do the searches you can now.
Hopefully something sensible will come out of this,
All the best,
Lance
Can not speak for others but no denigrating here.
Urging perhaps. I don't think the users here have an issue but Auran might since they would have to continue to pay someone to maintain the DLS code that supports older content with no direct return on investment.
A steady flow of error free content for new releases might be an incentive, the DLS is a gold mine of free content for them. Much cheaper than a crew on staff to build it.
If content is spread all over the net and not checked for errors, wouldn't that have a negative impact on future sales. I'm talking first time buyers who may become frustrated with CDP hunts and faults when they find them. Consumer confidence is a fickle thing and doesn't take much of a bad experience to hurt a product. When a version comes along I feel is worth upgrading to I would rather have that content in one place and error free.
People will only upgrade when they are ready or able. Splitting everything up may stall that. Keeping as much content here and checked as possible, along with us holdouts, at least keeps the incentive to buy the next release or at least a first class ticket. If third party sites take off, why buy a first class ticket at all, nothing new here. Plus, why come here in the first place, loosing exposure to any new releases.
I have 04,06,TC and 09 so access is not an issue for me. Splitting everyone and everything up may become an issue in the future. What good will 09/10 or even 2011 be if content is uploaded somewhere else where CM? can't find it and full of errors most users are unable or inclined to fix. That is why I support Casper here.
Dave.....
Oh, and never said you were one denigrating.
If content is spread all over the net and not checked for errors, wouldn't that have a negative impact on future sales. I'm talking first time buyers who may become frustrated with CDP hunts and faults when they find them. Consumer confidence is a fickle thing and doesn't take much of a bad experience to hurt a product. When a version comes along I feel is worth upgrading to I would rather have that content in one place and error free.
People will only upgrade when they are ready or able. Splitting everything up may stall that. Keeping as much content here and checked as possible, along with us holdouts, at least keeps the incentive to buy the next release or at least a first class ticket. If third party sites take off, why buy a first class ticket at all, nothing new here. Plus, why come here in the first place, loosing exposure to any new releases.
I have 04,06,TC and 09 so access is not an issue for me. Splitting everyone and everything up may become an issue in the future. What good will 09/10 or even 2011 be if content is uploaded somewhere else where CM? can't find it and full of errors most users are unable or inclined to fix. That is why I support Casper here.
Dave.....
Oh, and never said you were one denigrating.
Dave
I've got to agree with you 100%. If I've got to start looking all over the place to find content, I just won't bother. I've just about decided to quit creating since I won't be able to upload 04 content after September and there's a chance of what I have there now may disappear at some point. I've lost all interest in creating anything.
Mike
I've got to agree with you 100%. If I've got to start looking all over the place to find content, I just won't bother. I've just about decided to quit creating since I won't be able to upload 04 content after September and there's a chance of what I have there now may disappear at some point. I've lost all interest in creating anything.
Mike
Mike, Don't let it get you down. If you enjoy creating why stop because of this? Just find a place to put your content and continue enjoying yourself. Train-sim would probably be glad to host your stuff. If everyone chooses one place it might not be that bad. This move finally got me motivated to learn Blender. If my gingerbread man tutorial attempt is any indication I have a long way to go. Mangled the poor fella.
I'm never ruling out another Trainz purchase. In it's current state it's not for me yet. A year or so is a long time. If this goes through I can foresee some possibly serious hassles on the horizon. Trainz is a hobby and if half is here and half is there full of errors I just might skip the next release as well. Why bother. I'm sure there are many who may think along the same lines.
I'm a member of several train related forums since I use other train sims. Trainz already has a stigma of being toyish and a hassle because of CDP hunts and errors as it is, keeping some from even trying it. Some dismiss it flat out just from what they heard. This just may reinforce that thinking in a time some were starting to take a second look because of the new goodies. Negative feedback is never a good thing and a few well placed comments could cost NV3 more than what it would take allowing DLS uploads from older versions.
You may not sell a dedicated 04 user a new version but his content may help sell more copies. I sure wasn't attracted to Trainz for those built in SD40s. The screenshots of all that great third party stuff sucked me in.
Dave....
I'm never ruling out another Trainz purchase. In it's current state it's not for me yet. A year or so is a long time. If this goes through I can foresee some possibly serious hassles on the horizon. Trainz is a hobby and if half is here and half is there full of errors I just might skip the next release as well. Why bother. I'm sure there are many who may think along the same lines.
I'm a member of several train related forums since I use other train sims. Trainz already has a stigma of being toyish and a hassle because of CDP hunts and errors as it is, keeping some from even trying it. Some dismiss it flat out just from what they heard. This just may reinforce that thinking in a time some were starting to take a second look because of the new goodies. Negative feedback is never a good thing and a few well placed comments could cost NV3 more than what it would take allowing DLS uploads from older versions.
You may not sell a dedicated 04 user a new version but his content may help sell more copies. I sure wasn't attracted to Trainz for those built in SD40s. The screenshots of all that great third party stuff sucked me in.
Dave....
I've mentioned this in another thread; how does this apply to uploading to the DLS with an external link? Is there any control or error checking over which version the asset is uploaded as the asset could be changed at any time afterwards by the uploader?
If this facility is retained, at least it may be a way of keeping all content accessed via the DLS so searches of other sites would not be necessary.
If this facility is retained, at least it may be a way of keeping all content accessed via the DLS so searches of other sites would not be necessary.
Driver_Col
Active member
Well everybody ............ here is the "quick and dirty" on my position:
I loved TRS2004
Upgraded to TRS2006 and was disappointed with it.
Upgraded to TC3 and loved it
Upgraded to TS2009 and was disgusted with the trees.
Not prepared to gamble on TS2010 based on above experiences.
As regards the issue that initiated this thread, I can understand the various views expressed and agree with all of them. The reality however is that Auran is trying to run a business and, based on their apparent business model, will probably lose customers as surely as they well gain some new ones. This is nothing new in any business that is constantly evolving. As has been said many times in as many threads, appreciate what you have for what it did when you bought it plus the years that you have had support. Accept that times have changed and exercise your choice to change with them or not. I would imagine that the current participants in this thread span a broad range of ages but, in my over 60 years of trying to fit into this world, I have seen literally zero examples of "perfect stability". Considering relationships, jobs, offspring, health and of course material things, I created Colin's Law:
If you don't like your circumstances ........... change them.
If you cannot change them ........... change your attitude towards them.
You may just influence the Auran crew to change direction but, if not, adapt and enjoy ........... or move on. It is simply a matter of choice.
Regards to all. The Trainz community is quite something (a good thing)!
Colin.
I loved TRS2004
Upgraded to TRS2006 and was disappointed with it.
Upgraded to TC3 and loved it
Upgraded to TS2009 and was disgusted with the trees.
Not prepared to gamble on TS2010 based on above experiences.
As regards the issue that initiated this thread, I can understand the various views expressed and agree with all of them. The reality however is that Auran is trying to run a business and, based on their apparent business model, will probably lose customers as surely as they well gain some new ones. This is nothing new in any business that is constantly evolving. As has been said many times in as many threads, appreciate what you have for what it did when you bought it plus the years that you have had support. Accept that times have changed and exercise your choice to change with them or not. I would imagine that the current participants in this thread span a broad range of ages but, in my over 60 years of trying to fit into this world, I have seen literally zero examples of "perfect stability". Considering relationships, jobs, offspring, health and of course material things, I created Colin's Law:
If you don't like your circumstances ........... change them.
If you cannot change them ........... change your attitude towards them.
You may just influence the Auran crew to change direction but, if not, adapt and enjoy ........... or move on. It is simply a matter of choice.
Regards to all. The Trainz community is quite something (a good thing)!
Colin.
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Driver_Col
You may be influenced by the negative posts about TS2010. It is natural that people with a bad experience will post about it, equally, those who are happy tend to say nothing.
My experience of TS2010 is that it is by far superior to any that have gone before, including TS2009. I could never consider reverting to any of the previous versions.
When TRS2006 came along I was a hold-out for TRS2004, mainly because CMP would never work for me, I was reluctant to move away because of that experience but CM3 is totally different, it works everytime, doesn't lock up and is a joy to use. The integration of CM3 with Surveyor is very easy to live with.
In case you wonder, I am not an Auran employee. Just an 81 year old retiree.
Peter
You may be influenced by the negative posts about TS2010. It is natural that people with a bad experience will post about it, equally, those who are happy tend to say nothing.
My experience of TS2010 is that it is by far superior to any that have gone before, including TS2009. I could never consider reverting to any of the previous versions.
When TRS2006 came along I was a hold-out for TRS2004, mainly because CMP would never work for me, I was reluctant to move away because of that experience but CM3 is totally different, it works everytime, doesn't lock up and is a joy to use. The integration of CM3 with Surveyor is very easy to live with.
In case you wonder, I am not an Auran employee. Just an 81 year old retiree.
Peter
Driver_Col
Active member
Hi Peter: Thanks for your comments. My biggest concern about TS2010 was triggered by the abominable trees in the Surveyor edition of TS2009 (unless you went to compatibility mode which seemed to defeat the whole purpose of getting TS2009). While I will not put down any creator's efforts, I was not particularly impressed with even the "new trees" that were made available soon after TS2009 issue, and as for paying for better trees????????
Maybe when TS2010 is generally available (i.e. will presumably include any/all corrective updates), I might get tempted. I have to get my head around those awful trees in TS2009 though .......... and in the Surveyor edition of all things! TS2009 Surveyor edition was an extremely bad production. Route builders use Surveyor and they (of all people) are going to have expectations of as good as, if not better, trees than earlier versions. I am startingto ramble now so I had better stop!
Thx again for your comments. Regards.
Colin.
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Driver_Col
Don't judge TS2010 by your experience with TS2009, they are different, TS2010 is not just the Engineers Edition that was promised, it is stand alone and far superior to TS2009.
Look for TS2010 screenshots in the Screenshots forum.
Peter
Don't judge TS2010 by your experience with TS2009, they are different, TS2010 is not just the Engineers Edition that was promised, it is stand alone and far superior to TS2009.
Look for TS2010 screenshots in the Screenshots forum.
Peter
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Peter,
Be careful what you start here.
Many versions of Trainz must have been purchased on the basis of visitors thinking, "Hey, that looks good - I'll buy it!"
IMHO most of the really great shots have been created in earlier versions. And still are!
Auran have done well from that.
Perhaps there should be a screenshot section called "Name your Version". But I won't start it.
Casper
PS @ iceman - Hi ice. Haven't seen you in the weekly screenshot competition recently - where have you been?
I am impressed with TRS 2010 graphics and speed. But as yet have not imported all my local folder's contents (thousands of assets)from TRS 2006. Not yet anyway. I have found a few bugs that still need ironing out. But once these are fixed, (another SP - number 3?... Shudder!) I will do so. In my opinion don't bother with compatibility mode, stay with older versions for that. Native is the way to go... and that means time fixing faulty assets. I don't mind as I am patient and it is well worth the effort in the end, for the glorious graphics. I believe it to be the future of Auran's Trainz. ...just a little more tweaking needed!
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Are you implying that those posting their images in the TS2010 Screenshots thread are not using TS2010? That sound like a serious accusation
Look again in the above mentioned thread, lots of beautiful images from Iceman in there. Makes TS2010 look great but then if you've decided a priory that TS2010 is not good, you don't want to see them. :hehe:
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by narrowgauge
Driver_Col
Don't judge TS2010 by your experience with TS2009, they are different, TS2010 is not just the Engineers Edition that was promised, it is stand alone and far superior to TS2009.
Look for TS2010 screenshots in the Screenshots forum.
Peter
Some of the new stuff in TS2010 couldn't really be done in TRS2004, the extra memory available, DXT texture compression, getting the wrinkles out of normal mapping, more solid scripting, being able to use more polys has resulted in some very nice work. Whitepass for example has been active.
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=48806
Don't under estimate TS2010, you may think that TRS2004 is adequate, that's a subjective opinion, TS2010 is far more capable is factual. Whether TRS2004 is adequate for your needs is for you to decide.
Cheerio John
Originally Posted by narrowgauge
Driver_Col
Don't judge TS2010 by your experience with TS2009, they are different, TS2010 is not just the Engineers Edition that was promised, it is stand alone and far superior to TS2009.
Look for TS2010 screenshots in the Screenshots forum.
Peter
Some of the new stuff in TS2010 couldn't really be done in TRS2004, the extra memory available, DXT texture compression, getting the wrinkles out of normal mapping, more solid scripting, being able to use more polys has resulted in some very nice work. Whitepass for example has been active.
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=48806
Don't under estimate TS2010, you may think that TRS2004 is adequate, that's a subjective opinion, TS2010 is far more capable is factual. Whether TRS2004 is adequate for your needs is for you to decide.
Cheerio John
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