Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06

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... I tried TRS2010, and was greatly dissapointed. I'll stay with TRS2006 until they come up with a version of tainz better than TRS2006.
...TRS2006 is the biggest selling version of Trainz and was the standard full version right up to the end of 2008.
I'm just wondering when this warm bath of nostagia about TRS06 began? Certainly, when I came on to these forums in Oct 2005, it was undoubtedly the most reviled version of Trainz ever. So much so that I wondered if I'd done the right thing buying it! The fear and loathing continued even after Service Pack 1 had sorted out most of the issues (particularly CMP).

Although a happy user of TRS06, since July 2008 I've thought that TC3 was the 'proper' version of that flawed incarnation of the game.

Strange how things come around isn't it? :hehe:

Paul
 
.....snip..... I wish others in this community could reach the same understanding.

Paul

Well that's a silly thing to say.:)

It's more fun to complain about anything that N3V (aka Auran) does and it keeps the forums busy.:)

No where have I seen that content at version 2.4 that is not faulty will be removed from the DLS.

But, but, the Conspiracy Theory must continue!!!!:)

Have fun,:D
 
I can confirm that my framerates DOUBLED from TC3 to TS10, that's when I realised I had to move on. I wish others in this community could reach the same understanding.

Paul

And I wish some could at least try to understand some don't care for the new content, foliage in particular. But, I guess I'll have to endure another insult for not liking it.

Dave....
 
It's a myth that everything in native mode has to be using TS2009/TS2010 features.

stellao.jpg



I've had bumpmapping on this, but as I've said before, I think it's a waste of time on most Trainz assets however good it looks, so it will be released without it.

Smiley.


Yep , it is a myth , but why not make things look as good as possible ?? normals and an AO pass would look great on an already quality asset ( always nice to see some-one take the time to scale their brick textures correctly :D ) ... less sterile , a more real world look and feel .... what ever floats ya boat I guess.

.
 
And I wish some could at least try to understand some don't care for the new content, foliage in particular. But, I guess I'll have to endure another insult for not liking it.

Dave....
Not liking something is one thing but those who claim TS2010 is the worst thing since (whatever) is another. The new foliage, after SP2, actually looks pretty good, but that's only my opinion, no need to agree. Meanwhile, back on topic, like I said before, stay with whatever version you're happy / comfortable with just don't go denigrating the newer versions or the people that use them.

See, no insults here. :)
 
normals and an AO pass would look great on an already quality asset
always nice to see some-one take the time to scale their brick textures correctly
Normal maps, yeah, if it's needed on an item, but as for AO, I'm surprised to hear you say that, especially along with your comment about the brick scale.

To bake ambient occlusion into the brick texture would be foolish unless using a huge texture, simply because scaling the brickwork correctly (which was more important to me) would result in any shading of the brickwork to be repeated, which there are plenty of examples of in Trainz.

AO is a must for realistic rendering in Max, but unless you go mad on the amount of textures you use in a realtime game (or you overscale the brickwork to avoid the shaded pattern repeating), then the alternative is to put up with relatively clean patterns, but at least without the tell-tale repeated shading.

I know which I prefer, and based on your comments about the brickwork, I know which you prefer.

Shoving multiple over-sized textures down the GFX card pipeline to get the result you speak of is not something I'd recommend to anyone.

I'm well aware of the visual benefits of Normal Maps and AO (along with Photons, Global Illumination, Indirect Illumination, Final Gather, etc).
I should be, I've used them for long enough.

But anything you add to the texture is going to be repeated and look just as odd as over-sized bricks.

But thanks for the "positive" comments as usual.

Smiley.
 
To bake ambient occlusion into the brick texture would be foolish unless using a huge texture, simply because scaling the brickwork correctly (which was more important to me) would result in any shading of the brickwork to be repeated, which there are plenty of examples of in Trainz.

I know which I prefer, and based on your comments about the brickwork, I know which you prefer.


Smiley.

Prefer both tbh , and by thirding the textures I've not had a problem with AO or repeating . It don't have to be alot , just enough to take the edge off the clean . Your comment about my sheet size is valid , 1024x512 minimum for me , larger if a shared asset , 2048x2048 if it's an asset that's going to be trackside , so out of curiousity what size sheet are you using in the above.

Sci
 
I can confirm that my framerates DOUBLED from TC3 to TS10, that's when I realised I had to move on. I wish others in this community could reach the same understanding.

Paul

I can confirm not ALL users are experiencing the same joy. If you disbelieve this statement then try trawling the TS2010 Forum where there is an abundance of issues some users are experiencing. Some are common... some are unique.

When something is good for one user, it doesn't necessarily mean all is fine for everyone else. I wish others who display this "stuff you Jack, because I'm fine" ignorance and arrogance in this community could also reach that level of understanding.
 
When something is good for one user, it doesn't necessarily mean all is fine for everyone else. I wish others who display this "stuff you Jack, because I'm fine" ignorance and arrogance in this community could also reach that level of understanding.

Likewise, if you look at a support forum, don't be surprised when it seems everyone is having problems - the people who it is running fine for don't generally post a 'thursday - running fine still today' thread every day.
 
No where have I seen that content at version 2.4 that is not faulty will be removed from the DLS.

Cheerio John

John
I think that it's fairly obvious from Auran's statements on legacy content and from some of Chris' comments that it is Auran's desire to eliminate all content from the DLS that is not a build number of a supported version. To paraphrase Chris, he has stated that it is not economical for Auran to maintain the error checking for older content uploading to the system, therefore the decision not to allow uploading after September. I only reach my conclusions from statements and posts from Auran and their staff and not from any sort of conspiracy theory that some subscribe to.

You are correct, Auran has not said that they would remove legacy content, but neither have they said that they would not. They have only said that they 'may' remove t. If they're not going to remove any, it would be a simple thing for them to state the fact that they are not going to remove any. In the absence of any clarifying statement from Auran otherwise, as I said, I can only conclude that it is their desire to get rid of all legacy content.

We can debate this till the cows come home, but it won't change their corporate decision. Their decision will please some and displease others. This next statement I am not directing at you John. I have the right to express my displeasure as much as anyone else has the right to express their pleasure and those of us that are displeased should not be subjected to disparaging or snide comments just because we express an opinion. That does nothing to progress the discussion.

Mike
 
Casper,

You have my vote. I'm happy with the Trainz I have. When I finally do release a route, it'll only be for 04 and 06. Don't have the cash nor the PC to run TRS2010, and seeing as I'm getting no support on my problem with 09, I'm not bothering with it. As Mike pointed out, I'm just expressing an opinion, and no way reflects anything towards any members or the Auran Company, just my displeasure with this whole perdicament, which I think, has gone on long enough. The only thing we can do now is wait to see what Auran/NV3 decides to do. The bickering (No in this thread but in countless others) is getting us no-where.

Just my humble 2 cents

Take care,

Ryan:wave:

Please do not think I am directing this towards any single person or group, tis only my own personal opinion.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwhelan
No where have I seen that content at version 2.4 that is not faulty will be removed from the DLS.

Cheerio John



John
I think that it's fairly obvious from Auran's statements on legacy content and from some of Chris' comments that it is Auran's desire to eliminate all content from the DLS that is not a build number of a supported version. To paraphrase Chris, he has stated that it is not economical for Auran to maintain the error checking for older content uploading to the system, therefore the decision not to allow uploading after September. I only reach my conclusions from statements and posts from Auran and their staff and not from any sort of conspiracy theory that some subscribe to.

You are correct, Auran has not said that they would remove legacy content, but neither have they said that they would not. They have only said that they 'may' remove t. If they're not going to remove any, it would be a simple thing for them to state the fact that they are not going to remove any. In the absence of any clarifying statement from Auran otherwise, as I said, I can only conclude that it is their desire to get rid of all legacy content.

We can debate this till the cows come home, but it won't change their corporate decision. Their decision will please some and displease others. This next statement I am not directing at you John. I have the right to express my displeasure as much as anyone else has the right to express their pleasure and those of us that are displeased should not be subjected to disparaging or snide comments just because we express an opinion. That does nothing to progress the discussion.

Mike

My personal view is that too many layouts depend on older content. I accept that after September the earlier build numbers will not be accepted for new content uploaded to the DLS.

I think at the moment the race is on to correct existing content at build 2.4 to make it TS2010 acceptable and upload it before September 2010. I think if we can clean up a fair chunk of content then existing TRS2004/06/TC users can continue to see a reasonable collection of content on the DLS. Some of these users know their subject very well and I'd be saddened to lose their expertise.

I agree with you that a number of people on the forum are less than positive in their postings.

Cheerio John
 
The sky is falling!!!!

Lighten up guys. Don't look for trouble that does not exist. Quote by Chris.

Unfortunately this is contradictory. I can either make long term promises, or I can't. It is safest for me to simply stand with my above statement:

.. we don't have any current plans to actively cull the DLS, and that anyone who says otherwise is looking to build a conspiracy theory.

I'm not sure how much more clear I can be. If anyone wants to build a conspiracy theory, I can't stop them. But I am willing to tell them to their face that it's a conspiracy theory.

Peter
 
Likewise, if you look at a support forum, don't be surprised when it seems everyone is having problems - the people who it is running fine for don't generally post a 'thursday - running fine still today' thread every day.

There's some false truth in this. Statistically, it proves nothing. There are over 370,000 members (I assume this means registered serial numbers) and only 3,822 active members (I'm not sure what this number represents). So, there's only a little over 1% of members that are active. Therefore, we have nothing to gauge the pleasure or displeasure of the other 99%. Some may just be happy as larks playing their game while others may have just become too frustrated and given up. I'm not a statistician, but I'd guess that a 1% sampling can be a little misleading. We'll never know for sure.
 
There's some false truth in this. Statistically, it proves nothing. There are over 370,000 members (I assume this means registered serial numbers) and only 3,822 active members (I'm not sure what this number represents). So, there's only a little over 1% of members that are active. Therefore, we have nothing to gauge the pleasure or displeasure of the other 99%. Some may just be happy as larks playing their game while others may have just become too frustrated and given up. I'm not a statistician, but I'd guess that a 1% sampling can be a little misleading. We'll never know for sure.

It's considerably less than 1% I believe .. there's the same couple of hundred people at best ( most ever users online = 304 ) that bother to post comments of any kind on these forums , and the same handfull of posters that are displeased with Aurans decision and the same handfull that think the decision is OK , so that's far short of the 3822 listed below.

:D
 
I see and sympathize with both sides (really, all sides). I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again: Set up an 04/06 server and fund it privately. I'd even contribute out of desire to promote interest in railphiledom. Ask Auran to patch your CM so you don't have to do manual downloads and download through CM. There are some simple ways around this even if they don't agree, but I strongly suspect Auran would because it's really a win-win for everybody. The "hardcore" 04/06 fans will continue to be able to get their favorite content, while newer versions of Trainz and new users to it will be able to use the official, Auran service.
 
It's considerably less than 1% I believe .. there's the same couple of hundred people at best ( most ever users online = 304 ) that bother to post comments of any kind on these forums , and the same handfull of posters that are displeased with Aurans decision and the same handfull that think the decision is OK , so that's far short of the 3822 listed below.

:D

I was being generous with the 1% :D
 
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