T:ANE - not buying it

Shane, you really need to let N3V defend the game themselves.
While they sit quietly in the background, some of your posts are starting to make people look quizzically in your direction.

These sites you mention are there to illegally push up the ratings of games to 4 or 5 stars.
I doubt they've ever had anyone pay them to vote down a product.
Most of their customers would prefer to upvote their own products than downvote someone elses, not least of all because they may have more than one competitor, and the cost would be ridiculous.

Whether you like it or not, the T:ANE reviews are mostly genuine, apart from the odd spoilt kid, and it's simply because they are unhappy with the product they bought.
I've no reason to question any of those negative reviews any more than I have reason to question any of the positive ones.
It's clear that it works well for some, and not for others.
Just accept that.

If it works for you, then fine, try and help those few whose problems are of their own making.
I'm sure your help is appreciated.
But most people here are computer savvy, and already know that the problems are not their end.
You are in the crossfire of a battle that's not even yours.

I know you think you are helping, but seriously, you are just fanning the flames.

Those having problems need N3V to fix the game, and prove everyone that they were determined to make it a great sim.
N3V need those having problems to keep the faith, and wait for the fixes (but it's N3V's lack of communication that's making it difficult for them).

But those who are having very few problems with T:ANE should just sit back and enjoy it, helping those who ask for help.
Saying everything is fine, or at least better than people are claiming, and that there's a conspiracy to downvote T:ANE by some is mind boggling.
You've always been very helpful Shane, but I fear that by the time all this comes out in the wash, you will be seen as nothing more than an N3V lapdog.
I don't think that.
I do think however, that your passion for Trainz makes you blind to the problems that T:ANE has, and just how frustrating it is for some people.

I almost bought T:ANE a few months back, but thankfully I held off.
But I can promise you this.
If I had bought it, and had no problems with it, I would not be coming out with some of the things yourself and others here have been.
I would listen, and not tell them they are wrong, doing something wrong, PC is old, etc.

None of the people having problems are going to thank you for saying these things to them, or implying them one way or another.
And N3V certainly aren't going to thank you for doing their work for them, and taking all the flak.

I hope you take these comments the right way.
Doesn't really matter, because I'm rarely here anymore anyway.
But it would be a shame to see a helpful guy labelled as N3V's defender, regardless of their behaviour, after all the people you have helped.
You're definitely not on the fence any more, your posts in this thread alone prove that, but as long as you're aware of that, I guess that's your decision.

Shame really.

Brian.
 
Brian, you've just posted almost exactly what I was considering posting.
I was about to start typing and then read your post..... no need for me to add anything now.

Mike.
 
Q: Who would have a motivation to post negative reviews?

A: Competitors.

Q: What competitors exist for N3V and Trainz?

A: Dovetail Games with Railworks

Q: Has Dovetail ever exhibited themselves to be anything but professional?

A: No. Dovetail has an established revenue stream through Steam and their core audience is different from Trainz (operating trains rather than building routes/assets). They have very little to gain by trash talking Trainz and everything to lose (respect).


On these forums I have seen very little positive about T:ANE myself. These members have invested time and money towards Trainz over potentially over ten years. They have no reason to want N3V to fail and every reason to want it to succeed. If they are displeased enough that their arguments warrant a temporary closing of the forum, then we have bigger problems than worrying about potentially fake reviews.
 
Interesting but I don't understand some of your assertions.
...
But most people here are computer savvy, and already know that the problems are not their end.
depends on your definition of most but quite a few time people have post how they have major problems or can't even start T:ANE and after careful questioning, it turns out their computer is under powered or otherwise not suitable for T:ANE except sometimes at its lowest performance settings.
...

But those who are having very few problems with T:ANE should just sit back and enjoy it, helping those who ask for help.
An admirable goal and something that we all should aspire to but occasionally some people make rather wild claims about T:ANE, should they be ignored and not challenged?
... I almost bought T:ANE a few months back, but thankfully I held off.
But I can promise you this.
If I had bought it, and had no problems with it, I would not be coming out with some of the things yourself and others here have been.
I would listen, and not tell them they are wrong, doing something wrong, PC is old, etc.
but if they are doing something wrong or their PC is old, are you saying they shouldn't be informed? Let them continue to struggle with hardware that isn't up to the task?

Fortunately, having read and understood the hardware requirements, I don't have many basic problems with T:ANE. Sure I've had my share of broken content that needs fixing. An occasional crash to desktop, duly reported and some other issues with creating new content and upgrading some of my older ones. This is all being worked out in the Dev forum.

I don't believe in spreading unconditional sunshine either, pretending that all is wonderful (it's not) but nor do I think doom and gloom is appropriate either. I got on board T:ANE early because I thought it would be fun and have no regrets. But that's just me. As for others, some did, some didn't. To each their own. I wont tell others to buy or not to buy. If they really have the appropriate hardware, they might want to play now or wait for later.

In economics, there is a concept of opportunity cost. By waiting, they give up current T:ANE game play for a future T:ANE. Everyone has to decide for themselves what that is worth.
 
Indeed. People buy the software, they get to post a review whether others agree with them or not..

The bad thing about the internet is once a comment is there, its forever.

I truly can not believe that the people there were paid to post negative reviews. I don't think anyone has that much money to do such a silly thing, and to assert so would be ridiculous.

I would venture to guess that 95% of the review sites (generally, not just software) out there, especially the dubious ones with hyphens in the domain name, are fake/paid review sites. And no one is really immune to posters who post reviews - negative or positive - for some form of compensation.
 
I would venture to guess that 95% of the review sites (generally, not just software) out there, especially the dubious ones with hyphens in the domain name, are fake/paid review sites. And no one is really immune to posters who post reviews - negative or positive - for some form of compensation.

That was nice jog off into irrelevant land...but I think the current subject of discussion was the crazy notion that people got paid to put up negative reviews on TANE.....

STEAM - You have to have purchased the software to review it

Apple Store - Ditto

Amazon - Purchasers have a "Verified Purchase" next to their reviews.

These sites do not Pay you to review a product.
 
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That was nice jog off into irrelevant land...but I think the current subject of discussion was the crazy notion that people got paid to put up negative reviews on TANE.....

STEAM - You have to have purchased the software to review it

Apple Store - Ditto

Amazon - Purchasers have a "Verified Purchase" next to their reviews.

These sites do not Pay you to review a product.

The moral here was, as already stated, take reviews with a grain of salt instead of with fanatical devotion.

And anybody can be paid or compensated in some form by anyone, under the table.
 
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The moral here was, as already stated, take reviews with a grain of salt instead of with fanatical devotion.

And anybody can be paid or compensated in some form by anyone, under the table.

While I agree on the first one, the assertion was that negative reviews were possibly paid for...now if someone has proof, I would love to see it.

If there is no proof, I would refer you to posts 41 and 42.
 
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While I agree on the first one, the assertion was that negative reviews were possibly paid for...now if someone has proof, I would love to see it.

If there is no proof, I would refer you to posts 41 and 42.
One of the most well-known Trainz payware sites encourages customers to review products and, if accepted, awards points towards purchases.* So, yeah, there's proof.

P.S. To your previous post, irrelevant replies often come in response to irrelevant questions.

*FYI, the payware site in question has great products, but this is still a form of remuneration.
 
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Well, now one thing I don't see myself is: who would be paying people to write negative reviews? N3V? Amazon? Steam? If people are being paid to write negative ones as you are assuming, are people being paid to write positive reviews?

Besides, on most of the sites that matter for reviews (Steam, Apple App Store, and IIRC Amazon as well and others likely as well) require you to have purchased the product in order to write a review.. I don't much think someone would be paid the money to buy the game and then the extra "bribery cost"... whoever would be paying people to do that would have a huge loss in money. I don't think anyone would want to drop that much just to get someone to make a negative review, and probably even a positive review.

And while yes there is the whole 'reward points' deal, it's not the same as telling someone "go write a negative review and I'll give you $xxx". Reward points typically also take a long time to add up to make a significant difference towards any purchases as opposed to a likely fairly sizable amount of money... Not too much proof there IMO.

I don't normally comment on these things all too much except for the occasional chiming in, but the suggestion people are being bribed to write reviews of any sort is just plain sad. I'd call it desperate to make some kind of point...

Cheers,
SM
 

One of the most well-known Trainz payware sites encourages customers to review products and, if accepted, awards points towards purchases.* So, yeah, there's proof.

P.S. To your previous post, irrelevant replies often come in response to irrelevant questions
.

*FYI, the payware site in question has great products, but this is still a form of remuneration.


That still does not deal with the wild notion that people were paid to write negative reviews.. you gave an example of people being asked to write positive reviews.

Again an irrelevant reply.

Looks like no proof is forthcoming.... So the only logical conclusion is that people refer to posts 41 and 42 and stop making silly assertions, it makes the community look bad.

The reviews were written, you don't agree with them, get over it.

Take them with a grain of salt and make up your own mind.
 
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I put a low rated review of TANE on Amazon UK (as NorthernWarrior). That review was genuinely based on how I felt about it then and how I still feel about it now. No one paid me to say that and if you check my review history on there you will see I've reviewed all sorts of things over the years - movies, music, even beds and lawnmowers. Some get good ratings, some don't. If you look at my review of X-Rebirth you will see after giving it a one star review (justifiably deserved as Egosoft dropped the ball even more than N3V) after playing again with the patches I added a comment mitigating some of what I'd written in the original review.

I highly doubt the train sim business is so big that rival companies would deliberately post misleading reviews of a competitors product and any suggestion to that effect could be taken as potentially libellous. Any way, the Dovie's product comes in for plenty of flak in its own right, albeit for different reasons.
 
Shane, you really need to let N3V defend the game themselves.
While they sit quietly in the background, some of your posts are starting to make people look quizzically in your direction.

These sites you mention are there to illegally push up the ratings of games to 4 or 5 stars.
I doubt they've ever had anyone pay them to vote down a product.
Most of their customers would prefer to upvote their own products than downvote someone elses, not least of all because they may have more than one competitor, and the cost would be ridiculous.

Whether you like it or not, the T:ANE reviews are mostly genuine, apart from the odd spoilt kid, and it's simply because they are unhappy with the product they bought.
I've no reason to question any of those negative reviews any more than I have reason to question any of the positive ones.
It's clear that it works well for some, and not for others.
Just accept that.

If it works for you, then fine, try and help those few whose problems are of their own making.
I'm sure your help is appreciated.
But most people here are computer savvy, and already know that the problems are not their end.
You are in the crossfire of a battle that's not even yours.

I know you think you are helping, but seriously, you are just fanning the flames.

Those having problems need N3V to fix the game, and prove everyone that they were determined to make it a great sim.
N3V need those having problems to keep the faith, and wait for the fixes (but it's N3V's lack of communication that's making it difficult for them).

But those who are having very few problems with T:ANE should just sit back and enjoy it, helping those who ask for help.
Saying everything is fine, or at least better than people are claiming, and that there's a conspiracy to downvote T:ANE by some is mind boggling.
You've always been very helpful Shane, but I fear that by the time all this comes out in the wash, you will be seen as nothing more than an N3V lapdog.
I don't think that.
I do think however, that your passion for Trainz makes you blind to the problems that T:ANE has, and just how frustrating it is for some people.

I almost bought T:ANE a few months back, but thankfully I held off.
But I can promise you this.
If I had bought it, and had no problems with it, I would not be coming out with some of the things yourself and others here have been.
I would listen, and not tell them they are wrong, doing something wrong, PC is old, etc.

None of the people having problems are going to thank you for saying these things to them, or implying them one way or another.
And N3V certainly aren't going to thank you for doing their work for them, and taking all the flak.

I hope you take these comments the right way.
Doesn't really matter, because I'm rarely here anymore anyway.
But it would be a shame to see a helpful guy labelled as N3V's defender, regardless of their behaviour, after all the people you have helped.
You're definitely not on the fence any more, your posts in this thread alone prove that, but as long as you're aware of that, I guess that's your decision.

Shame really.

Brian.

Thankyou for your response Brian. To be honest, I'm still taking reviews with a pinch of salt as I still cannot be 100% sure of the reasoning behind it. The only way a user can be sure themselves is if they try it, as what they see may well be different to what another user sees.

Shane
 
I put a low rated review of TANE on Amazon UK (as NorthernWarrior). That review was genuinely based on how I felt about it then and how I still feel about it now. No one paid me to say that and if you check my review history on there you will see I've reviewed all sorts of things over the years - movies, music, even beds and lawnmowers. Some get good ratings, some don't. If you look at my review of X-Rebirth you will see after giving it a one star review (justifiably deserved as Egosoft dropped the ball even more than N3V) after playing again with the patches I added a comment mitigating some of what I'd written in the original review.

I highly doubt the train sim business is so big that rival companies would deliberately post misleading reviews of a competitors product and any suggestion to that effect could be taken as potentially libellous. Any way, the Dovie's product comes in for plenty of flak in its own right, albeit for different reasons.

I know what you mean Vern, although theoretically anything is possible.

Shane
 
I don't think that you - and many others - understand from whence we come with our "negativity": the problems shouldn't be there in the first place and most definitely not in the abundance that we have seen with the release of TANE.

This mentality, that appears to have become a core value with N3V over the years, of "Let's shove it out the door in an incomplete and dodgy state and we'll try and fix the problems on the fly!", is unacceptable and that is one of the reasons for the reaction of the masses.

The attitude of "close enough is good enough" is the same as that for the manufacture and supply of consumer goods in the Soviet Union in the 1960s.

I know what you mean, although the flipside of it would have been potentially to further delay the release which may not have been possible and would have caused just as much anger here.

Shane
 
It seems some on here seem to be taking my comments out of proportion. I simply stated originally that sites exist for buying reviews and that I take such reviews with a pinch of salt, which is a fact. I did not state that it was specifically for negative or positive reviews, as it's impossible to know what the likely result is.

Incidentally, it's mainly sites outside Amazon/Steam/Apple that seem to have the glut of these reviews.

Shane
 
Hi everybody.
It seems some on here seem to be taking my comments out of proportion. I simply stated originally that sites exist for buying reviews and that I take such reviews with a pinch of salt, which is a fact. I did not state that it was specifically for negative or positive reviews, as it's impossible to know what the likely result is.

Incidentally, it's mainly sites outside Amazon/Steam/Apple that seem to have the glut of these reviews.

Shane

Shane, undoubtedly what you are referring to there in your last paragraph are gaming sites, populated by gamers, who post those reviews.

Why would those gamers wish to post negative reviews unless they feel it is genuinely warranted?

There are plenty of positives reviews of other software posted on those sites, which without doubt demonstrates a reasonable balance with regard to those carrying out the reviews.

Bill
 
One of the most well-known Trainz payware sites encourages customers to review products and, if accepted, awards points towards purchases.* So, yeah, there's proof.

P.S. To your previous post, irrelevant replies often come in response to irrelevant questions.

*FYI, the payware site in question has great products, but this is still a form of remuneration.

Wrong, as usual! Go stir the pot someplace else. We don't need to pay for reviews.

Mike
 
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I admire the passion in some posts and understand the frustration, but can we please stay near or on the edge and not go over it?
In other words: Please stay on topic and on normal text size :) . Thanks!

As for the topic at hand:

Please inform yourself well before making the choice so you know what you can expect. Learn which reviews to ignore and which to trust. On some sites it is popular to bash a product, on some sites it is popular to praise it. Find some neutral ground. Also check what version of the product they are review; the current version is not good, but if the reviews are based on CE or pre-CE versions, they will be more negative than needed.

My advise?
Be 100% sure your PC meets the minimum requirements and if you did not buy the product yet, wait till the next big patch before doing or considering so.
Yes, you are reading it correct: I am a kickstarter investor, enjoy most of the product, since a few days I am even part of that team, and I am advising you to wait out the next patch before buying it.

If you don't like the product, don't buy the product.
 
I don't generally do review sites and if a product has a low number of reviews it may be skewed fairly easily for a number of reasons. However, if there are many reviews that are saying roughly the same thing you would be unwise to assume there is no substance to them (good or bad).

TANE is a classic N3V product. Hyped, under delivered, under cooked, a rough diamond needing a great deal of remedial work. Do NV3 know it? I would imagine so by now :)
 
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