Union Pacific making plans to restore Big Boy

[bencar]

I have to say I have my doubts on seeing a Big Boy under steam again, but even so, I so hope this ultimate example of the Super Power Steam era, can live again. Living history, always beats static history, at least for me.

 

[smash]

The big thing I read between the line is that Union Pacific is willing to let a third party foot the bill for the restoration. If that is the case then I can see it getting done.
Union Pacific does not want to spend millions of its own money. But it will gladly spend someone else's money. (That would go for us all)

Trust me if I had that kind of money I would get one running again.
Kenny

 

[jacksonbarno]

Converting a Big Boy to oil would be challenging, would it not? Yes, they did do it in the 40's, but they would need to create a system that actually worked this time...:hehe:

 

[smash]

I dont think it would be as hard as everybody thinks. This time they have time to get it right. If they successfully converted the Challengers to oil they con do the Big Boys.
Kenny

 

[jordon412]

The west coast railfans get all the big steamers lucky for u guys out west and it would neat to see a big boy roaming the rails again i wish NS would get 611 back up and running

I agree with you, but personally, I'd like to see Norfolk and Western 2-6-6-4 #1218. We have plenty of mainline northerns (Southern Pacific 4449, Santa Fe 3751, etc.), and only one articulated locomotive (UP 3985). Besides, 1218 has a big advantage in maintenance over 611: 611 is streamlined, meaning in order to work on the boiler, the streamling would have to be removed, which would require a crane of some sort. With 1218, you don't have to spend the extra time and money to get a hold of a crane that can handle the weight of the streamlining. Plus the auxiliary equipment (i.e. air compressors for the brakes) is easier to get to without the streamlining. Wheter or not to restore 611 or 1218 depends on one important thing that makes the world go around: MONEY.
Also, you could consider Southern Pacific 4-8-4 #4449 as streamlined, she is actually SEMI-streamlined, unlike 611, whose COMPLETELY streamlined.
The reason why the big locomotives are out west is because of the loading gauge: the tunnels, bridges, etc. are larger than those here in the east, meaning that larger locomotives, such as the northers and 3985, can travel across the western US. The smaller tunnels, bridges, etc. in the eastern US will not allow locomotives the size of 3985 amd the other northerns to travel about without having parts being knocked off entering tunnels that are too small. I must note one exception: Union Pacific 3985 was able to run on CSX's Ex-Clinchfield Railroad tracks to pull the 50th anniversary Santa Train between Elkhorn, Kentucky and Kingsport, Tennessee. The reason why was because the tunnels and bridges were large enough for her to get thru because the Clinchfield owned several ex-Union Pacific 4-6-6-4 Challengers. They were similar in specifications to Union Pacific's, and were first leased to Denver and Rio Grande Western #3800-3805, then returned to UP, then sold to the Clinchfield as their E-3 class, #670-675.

 

[Klinger]

Yo Klinger:

Great job of research (and debunking the bunkers, lol).

I worked on jet engines and turbines so understand the concept of burners (tho in a jet engine they are called fuel nozzles for the core engine and spray rings for the afterburner) but its the same concept - squirt atomized fuel into the combustion area. Its just a matter of putting a sufficient number of burners in the firebox and arranging them for efficient combustion vs fuel flow.

Ben

Specifically, UP had problems on 4005 with uneven heating of the crown sheet and rear flue sheet. I suspect that while working under a heavy load, the draft would suck the fire up and forward (these engines were know to take shovels from fireman). Two burners with a larger atomizer line would solve the problem, also in excursion service, you don't work as hard, so the draft would not be so extreme.

I ran some numbers today with one of my coworkers. From Ogden, UT to Cheyenne, the maximum curvature is 8 degrees, the big boys were built with 20 degree curves in mind, though a max of 10 was placed for the mainline at that time. Most of the curves on the entire route are actually between 1 and 3 degrees, so turning is not an issue. Also, when it comes to clearance on double track on a curve, its based on 13 foot centers, the modern standard is closer to 20 foot centers. So even on a 10 degree curve (which in the Kratville book is layed out) the locomotive should never foul the other track

 

[GeorgeCW]

Cant see why they can.t wye it unless they took the wye out at Larmie, They used to wye 3985 there, unless they took the wye out recently, big problem was the tender. We had to do it real slow and really watch the tender but it could be done. I was wondering can steam be run into LA still?

 

[jordon412]

I was wondering can steam be run into LA still?

If steam cannot be run into LA, why would Santa Fe 4-8-4 #3751 be based in Amtrak's Rendondo Junction Roundhouse in Los Angeles? She just ran an excursion from LA to Williams, Arizona and back in May.

 

[bendorsey]

Klinger mentioned axel loading is lower then the 4-6-6-4 but what about overall weight. MR Cyc sez 772,000 pounds. Would current bridges, etc be able to handel that?

Ben

 

[hholdenaz]

I know we're all excited, and so am. I, but shouldn't we ask th Union Pacific for confirmation first?

 

[BobCass]

I just read an article in the Trains.com..And Steve Sandberg showed some interest about Big Boy..Of course it would be expensive but it could be done..

 

[daylightrain]

I was lookin around, and Union Pacific was talking about giving a locomotive to replace 4014. Does anybody know what engine that may be? Last time I checked, UP had only two steamers at its roundhouse, 2-10-2 TTT-6 5511 and 4-8-4 FEF 836, and neither are in any reasonable condition.

 

[Eboy87]

That's true Daylightrian, they do have 5511 and 836, and there are talks about UP giving them something in return. I think the issue is the museum's land lord is looking for an excuse to kick them out, and without the Big Boy, he'll have that excuse. I've seen pictures of the 836, and most of its parts have been stripped and used on 844. The 5511 looks like it's in good condition cosmetically, but I rememeber reading somewhere that if it were to be restored, it would be limited to 40mph because of its diver and cylinder diameters. I think that's the main reason it hasn't been restored to running condition. Having an excursion train unable to make track speed will tie up the railroad and cost them money. I don't see UP doing that.

If (again, a big if) UP is negotiating to get the Big Boy, if they were to give them one of their locomotives, I see 5511 being offered first. Now, I personally think they'll find something else to trade them for. It could be a Challenger displayed somewhere else, or it could be something no one has thought of yet. In all honesty, I don't think we'll know until the deal is sealed. Unless of course this is all a hoax/overblown rumor. Which I'm still not convinced it isn't. A mysterious email from Ed Dickens is awfully convenient. After all, I get emails from the prince of Nigeria all the time. That being said, I really hope it isn't a hoax.

Look at it this way; if people say a Big Boy would never run on most trucks outside of Sherman Hill, they managed to get them to museums across the country, didn't they? Granted, they were empty and weighed significantly less, but I'd postulate that with most infrastructure built to handle modern heavy traffic, I think they have a bigger territory to run a 4000 than we give them credit for.

 

[haddock56]

Lets not forget that while the 4014 would be an awesome engine to restore that the sole survivor of the 9000 class is still in existence. It may not be able to run up to 75 but she's still a worthy candidate even then considering she's the last one left.

 

[hholdenaz]

I was lookin around, and Union Pacific was talking about giving a locomotive to replace 4014. Does anybody know what engine that may be? Last time I checked, UP had only two steamers at its roundhouse, 2-10-2 TTT-6 5511 and 4-8-4 FEF 836, and neither are in any reasonable condition.

Actually, 5511 would be excellent for restoration, and it probably wouldn't take more than a few weeks to get it restored. However, it would be limited to 40mph on Union Pacific for some reason. That's why it's not being restored. Then again, this info comes from Wikipedia, so don't believe anything this says until actual proof is found, ok?

 

[BobCass]

Does anyone Know the lastest News On This??

 

[Blackout16]

up is still i ntalks with the museum about it i sure as heck hope they dont offer 3985... im not gonna be a very happy railfan if they offer 3985

 

[jacksonbarno]

They are most likely going to offer up 836, as there are only two FEF-3's left.

 

[pdkoester]

Maybe, I know this is ridiculous, they could put some more modern mechanisms in control for the boiler. More efficient, less pollution, like the boilers used in modern high-rise buildings and hospitals. Of course, then you wouldn't get the delight of black smoke plume shows from the fireman. And no, I am not against the original design and I am not an environ-MENTAL-ist. Just an alternative idea.

 

[daylightrain]

To be honest, If I remember correctly that a locomotive shouldn't really put out thick black smoke. Infact, There shouldn't be any if handled correctly. Then again, any engineer loves to put on a show for railfans!