Union Pacific making plans to restore Big Boy

[Truemac]

Several members posted on TrainOrders today about recieving an email from a "pretty well-respected person." The letter read as follows:

Gentlemen:

I attended a meeting on Tuesday evening of the Southern California Chapter of the Railway & Locomotive Historical Society in San Marino.

An outside guest was there for the “informational” side of the meeting, with a proposal for the chapter membership and board to consider.

Ed Dickens; he’s the manager of UP’s Historic Equipment program at Cheyenne. He announced that UP has decided to restore and run a Big Boy as a public relations gesture—and that millions of dollars have been budgeted for the project.

Engineering staff has surveyed all seven surviving Big Boy locomotives and found that the 4014 on display at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds in Pomona (owned by the SCC-R&LHS) is the one of the seven in the best condition and therefore the first choice for the UP restoration project.

At the meeting, UP offered to “obtain” the 4014 from the Chapter, move it across the Fair parking lot on snap track to live (Metrolink) rails and then haul it to Cheyenne for a multi-year restoration project. He didn’t say “buy” and he didn’t say “repossess,” and he did leave open the possibility of loaning another steam locomotive to the Chapter to fill the empty space. UP to pay all costs.

At least one Board member is adamantly opposed to accepting UP’s offer. His concern is that the Chapter and Fairplex facility management in Pomona have frequently clashed in the past and that removing the “star” of the R&LHS exhibit would give Fairplex the opportunity to evict the entire rail museum—leaving it homeless. No decision was reached during the meeting. I suspect that the Board will want to poll the entire Chapter membership, but that is just my own opinion. Apparently a Board meeting is scheduled for this weekend.

If a deal is reached, UP wants to make the move by February 2013.

This is not an official announcement and I do not speak for the Chapter or the UP. All I can say is, “watch the media” and check with your sources.

Joe Strapac

In addition, Trains mag. news wire made this post today, as well:

Union Pacific looking to restore 4-8-8-4 Big Boy #4014 for excursion service

Published: December 7, 2012

CHEYENNE, Wyo. – Union Pacific Railroad has had conversations with the Southern California Chapter of the Railway & Locomotive Historical Society to purchase and restore its ex-UP 4-8-8-4 Big Boy, No. 4014. The museum's board is scheduled to meet Dec. 8 and plans to vote on the proposal from the railroad to buy the locomotive, says a source familiar with the matter.

Alco built 25 Big Boys for UP in 1941. No. 4014 resides at the chapter's museum on the grounds of the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds in Pomona, Calif., and is one of eight surviving Big Boys. UP donated the locomotive to the chapter in 1962.

Trains News Wire has contacted Union Pacific for comment and is currently wait for a reply.

Now, I'm just as skeptical about this whole deal as the next guy, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping for any truth behind this.

 

[sawyer811]

Can't say I disagree with anything You've said there, either the skepticism or the hopefulness. Restoring one of the Big Boys would be a monstrous undertaking, more so than (I Imagine) it was to re-build 3985.

I'll tell you what though, the fact Trains is reporting on this has me somewhat hopeful. They're pretty well respected, and I don't think they'd report on rumor, at least not shooting from the hip.

 

[Klinger]

Now, I am going to post before the people who think they know what they are talking about do.

Anti-Operation Argument 1: The Big Boys can't run on oil
False!

4005 was unsuccessfully converted to oil during the 40's, however UP did not try very hard, they used a single burner out of an FEF, which frankly, was far too small for the massive firebox of a big boy.

Anti-Operation Argument 2: The Big boy is too heavy to run on modern day tracks
False!

The big boy was desinged to run on 110 pound rail, however my research has shown that the Big Boys were actually down in Denver quite often, on a UP line that at the time they were in service, were only running 90 pound rail. Modern day rails range from 110-130 pounds per yard. Also, believe it or not, the axle loading of the big boy is actually less then that of a challenger, because of the extra two driving axles

Anti-Operation Argument 3: The boiler overhang is too great to use on double track
False!

The big boys overhand is about 3/8 of an inch greater then a challenger, and modern day double track lines are actually spaced further apart then they were during the engines service life. This is because of modern rules that must account for crew walking their trains on the main line in case of an emergency.

I think that at least gets the point across.

All the information for this is from the Book "Big Boy" and "The Mighty 800's" by Kratville

 

[gg14835]

I sure hope it's true! I'd love to see a Big Boy running again

 

[modeltrains]

I sure hope it's true! I'd love to see a Big Boy running again

Same here, it would be worth the time, effort & money to see a giant of the rails ride again! It would be a massive accomplishment to get one back into running order but its not impossible and more importantly it deffently would be worth it.

Cheers Daniel

 

[wilh]

Wouldn't that be something. UP could lay claim to having both of the world's largest operation steam loco.

 

[smash]

I too would love for this to come to pass.
But I do have a question. I (thought I)remember that the F.R.A. changing the rules so that (in this example) the boiler would have to be inspected before repair? If so my guess is that none of the big boys boilers would pass and need to be replaced. They were last run in 1959. 53 years is along time to site still for a steam locomotive.
That right there would almost make it too expensive to get a big boy back in running order.


Kenny

Edit one other question.
I thought that Union Pacific still owns the Big boys? The are on permanent loan. That way no one could do anything to them without going through UP first.

 

[haddock56]

Seeing this come to pass would be a huge success. Smash, you do have a point, but let's not forget that the 4014 is exceptionally well maintained and the fact that they have taken such good care of it would put it's boiler in fair condition, main damage being in the smokebox and firebox, as those two points would be the main spots where water could get in. 53 years in the hands of a museum who has taken good care of the engine versus a different place could mean a world of difference. Though the Fairplex board should be thankful they still have the #9000 in the park too. The last surviving member of the mighty UP 9000 class 4-12-2s.............my opinion is that if the UP wants to restore the 4014, they should be allowed. This would be a massive public boost and bring back scenes that have all but vanished from America.

 

[haddock56]

Can't say I disagree with anything You've said there, either the skepticism or the hopefulness. Restoring one of the Big Boys would be a monstrous undertaking, more so than (I Imagine) it was to re-build 3985.

I'll tell you what though, the fact Trains is reporting on this has me somewhat hopeful. They're pretty well respected, and I don't think they'd report on rumor, at least not shooting from the hip.

Agreed, Sawyer. When Trains Magazine reports something of this magnitude, there is credibility and reputation behind it. Trains Magazine is a respected publisher and they wouldn't publish a rumor without evidence.

 

[modeltrains]

I found this here... "click here"

Nothing is official as of yet obviously but i found it a good read anyway. Cheers Daniel.

 

[SD45T-2]

Well, this is somewhat shocking.

 

[jjanmarine3]

I will probably never have the opportunity to see a real Big Boy but a working one somewhere and others in museums on display for future generations to see and marvel about is a must.
All the good causes in this world have one thing in common that halts implemetation: " WE cannot spend any money and time to this cause , there are other urgent priorities " ..and when one does some homework you find that WE has just spent billions and millions on issues of personal gain 'legally' , and WE has left the good causes to the man in the street to sort out .

 

[ulmer94]

This is interesting, having heard Steve Lee's opinion on how impossible, or at least impractical, it would be to restore a 4000. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[CPman117]

The west coast railfans get all the big steamers lucky for u guys out west and it would neat to see a big boy roaming the rails again i wish NS would get 611 back up and running

 

[kws4000]

If this does indeed come to pass....:clap:

However, I do have the desire that they will incorporate the latest in thermodynamics to bring the Big Boys from the biggest in the world to the most efficient in the world. Livio Dante Porta could have nearly got the chance to work on one of these in Argentina if funds had been raised, but alas not. This genius of effeciency would have made that engine one to outdo everything else in world; I can only hope that this rebuild will not just be a replica operation, but one to prove modern steam technology!

 

[bendorsey]

Yo Klinger:

Great job of research (and debunking the bunkers, lol).

I worked on jet engines and turbines so understand the concept of burners (tho in a jet engine they are called fuel nozzles for the core engine and spray rings for the afterburner) but its the same concept - squirt atomized fuel into the combustion area. Its just a matter of putting a sufficient number of burners in the firebox and arranging them for efficient combustion vs fuel flow.

Ben

 

[kws4000]

Klinger, thanks for the anti-op arguments, but you forgot one:

Anti-Operation Argument #4
There are only two places to turn a Big Boy, and they are located only a few miles apart.

If you can come up with contrary evidence, PLEASE DO SO. I WANT AN OPPOSITION TO THIS (#4) STATEMENT! I know nothing more.

 

[wva-usa]

Anti-Operation Argument #4
There are only two places to turn a Big Boy, and they are located only a few miles apart.

The UP doesn't have any wye tracks on which the locomotive could be turned?

 

[GP30Fan]

But... UP does have a very large track gang.

Wyes are not what one could call a complicated track configuration to construct.

Compared to what the cost of putting the unit back into operation, the cost of a wye or two is pretty insignificant.

-AL

 

[Timothetoolman]

Now, I'm one who is VERY skeptic when it comes to restoring 'plinthed' locomotives in the 21st century, especially here in Australia where the preservation movement has always been in some sort of decline without government assistance, but here I find myself thinking that this project, despite the size of the task, would be the most likely to succeed when you consider who is behind the project; not some group of old men with a tin shed and over ambitious hopes of bringing back steam completely, but a massive company with the resources and possibly funds to undertake it. Granted, there is still much I don't know about the topic and I still remain skeptic, but good luck to the team who makes it reality (depending on whether UP can obtain 4014) but frankly if anyone can master a job like this, UP Steam is one of the very few groups globally that have a chance of pulling it off.

Cheers
Tim