TS19 killing all previous TS?

[casa26687]

I've been running Trainz off and on since Microsoft came out with it (still have the original CD around somewhere). I'm currently running TS12 (just bought it this year), but have found it still have the same issues - glitchy operation with defective built-ins (i.e. South China route) and bait&switch download content (after downloading and installing, find out you need one paid-for dependency; i.e. Us -Abrams 7 Tank strike Drivable,).
A decade ago (with TS2004?), I paid for a FCT and found it's wasn't really worth the price - download speed went up from dialup speed to almost triple.
I was using TS12 and suddenly both locos and rolling stock started getting script errors. Tried "Quick Database Repair", then "Extended Database Repair" - no joy. Then I saw the TS19 anouncement on 12/18/18 and noticed the "Download Content Update" has kept jumping up - went from less than 40 to 266 yesterday, so I started updating (dialup speed download on my cable broadband)... it got about half way and started choking - so I stopped all, exited the program... when I went back in, it still showed 266 - like it hadn't been downloading for hours.
Today "Download Content Update" went up another 200 and is currently at 476. So I started updating (dialup speed download on my cable broadband) again, and 4 hours later, by the time I got to the "C"s - a third of the downloads can't 'find the host' and are in red. Is it just me or have they figure out a way to force upgrading to TS19 by breaking every previous version?

 

[Dragon_Lord]

It's coming into Holiday Season, so if you are having issues with downloading it may be due to load on their servers...

TRS2004 was the best...

 

[SailorDan]

I was using TS12 and suddenly both locos and rolling stock started getting script errors. Tried "Quick Database Repair", then "Extended Database Repair" - no joy. Then I saw the TS19 anouncement on 12/18/18 and noticed the "Download Content Update" has kept jumping up - went from less than 40 to 266 yesterday...

You should start by finding out why you are getting script errors. Things don't just stop working without a reason. In particular, look at what assets got installed about the time the problem started, and see if any of them might be relevant to the scripts used in those locos.

You can't just download content without examining it. Your version of Trainz is very old and a lot has changed since it was made. If you are seeing assets reported as out of date or obsolete or update available then you need to look at all versions of the asset and decide whether there is anything on the DLS that you want. Do not download anything with a build number that TS12 can't handle - you will only have to delete it.

If you download routes with dependencies that are payware then delete the route - it's not worth the trouble. If the author hasn't bothered to check what's payware then there are probably many other issues with the route that you would have to fix. Other assets such as locos that have dependencies as payware might be worth trying to fix. Many assets, such as the horn sound, can be substituted without any significant change. In some cases a dependency might be reported as payware but you already have a free version of that asset installed or is available on the DLS, so the payware item is not needed in order for it to work OK. Also, there are many assets that are now payware which shouldn't be and which will be fixed at some uncertain date in the future. So if there is something you particularly like that has payware dependencies then it might be worth trying again next year.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Is it just me or have they figure out a way to force upgrading to TS19 by breaking every previous version?

YES ... that is exactly the grand overall plan and scheme of things ... Kill off all lower versions of Trainz

 

[pware]

Yes, Cascade, you are correct. It is all part of a grand secret conspiracy to extract more and more of our hard cash while denying us access to those real gems of the past like Trainz UTC. It is only the few keen eyed observers such as yourself that have been consistently warning us against this evil plan but, like a modern day Cassandra, your prophecies have always fallen on deaf and unbelieving ears. Keep up the good work!

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

I guess the alternative is we kill off any further development for Trainz. That would be sad .

To casa26687, the product you have was released in 2011. Updating assets generally isn't a necessity, so you could probably just ignore those. While we do update content, most of the updates are done by 3rd parties, so we have no real control over those.

Keep an eye out for FCT deals - when you pick up a bargain you will see they are well worth the cents per day that they cost.

If you are looking for a product that is leaps and bounds ahead of the 2011 version, then try TRS2019 (which you can do for $15 right now and you'll get a $20 loco included).

 

[casa26687]

You should start by finding out why you are getting script errors. Things don't just stop working without a reason. In particular, look at what assets got installed about the time the problem started, and see if any of them might be relevant to the scripts used in those locos.

You can't just download content without examining it. Your version of Trainz is very old and a lot has changed since it was made. If you are seeing assets reported as out of date or obsolete or update available then you need to look at all versions of the asset and decide whether there is anything on the DLS that you want. Do not download anything with a build number that TS12 can't handle - you will only have to delete it.

If you download routes with dependencies that are payware then delete the route - it's not worth the trouble. If the author hasn't bothered to check what's payware then there are probably many other issues with the route that you would have to fix. Other assets such as locos that have dependencies as payware might be worth trying to fix. Many assets, such as the horn sound, can be substituted without any significant change. In some cases a dependency might be reported as payware but you already have a free version of that asset installed or is available on the DLS, so the payware item is not needed in order for it to work OK. Also, there are many assets that are now payware which shouldn't be and which will be fixed at some uncertain date in the future. So if there is something you particularly like that has payware dependencies then it might be worth trying again next year.

The first issue was a loco that when I went to rename, I instead got an error about loco.gs and nothing else. The same with a piece of rolling stock - no commodities. After database repairs and some update downloads, both started working again... but there are still others that don't.
As far as build numbers, you are correct and I thought I had that covered when I specify no TS newer than TS12... and I also watch the build numbers when I download via Content Manager (V3.7).
As far as Routes, Southern China is "Built-in" and has two 'unknown' dependencies... so they the included the defective route in the original software package.
Do me a favor and look at:
AWVR SD70M 8000s <kuid:758466:100429> or <kuid:758466:100430> - both are 4.5 Mb downloads (about a half an hour at 5.33 KBps) and Build version 2.9 - there are no dependencies or warning before download - once downloaded, it shows 10 dependencies with 5 unknown... so why is it listed as available on Download Station?
FEC Rail Amaerica 105 SD70M-2 <kuid5116661:100304> Build 2.9 - 3Mb download (20 minutes) - no dependencies, no errors or warnings - after download, 9 dependencies with 2 unknown.
And I have now again used almost 10% of my "daily download allowance" on items that won't even work... and Download Content Updates still shows 465 'updates'.
Any item on DLS that has "unknown" dependencies should be removed (and the author censored) and any item that is dependant on payware should be listed with $.
Sorry, but I don't think I should have to download content and see if it works if all the information seems to state it will (Build version). Nor should I be penalized when something is listed as good and then turns out to be defective (using up 'daily download allowance").

 

[casa26687]

It's coming into Holiday Season, so if you are having issues with downloading it may be due to load on their servers...

TRS2004 was the best...

Actually, since I no longer have a FCT, I'm back to an average 5KBps (AKA 40Kbps, less than dialup)... they are either throttling the speed or still have a modem farm.

 

[casa26687]

Tony,
I don't think killing off Trainz development is a solution... but there is quite a ways to go. As I stated, I've been using Trainz since the beginning. Back in the 80s I had a supervisor (software engineer) that said when a program was completely debuged, it was obsolete. The biggest issue I have is that is doesn't seem to make much difference which version - they all seem to have the same basic glitches that never get fixed and Download Station needs a complete rebuild... up the speed for non-FCT and get rid of all the 'bad' content.
As far as the product I have, I bought it this year on Steam... so if it's so antique, why don't they put it out to pasture and stop collecting $$$$ for it. If they allowed it to be sold this year and collected royalities, I would expect a little more support than "buy a newer version". As for now, with all the issues TS19 seems to have caused me, again I'll probably remove it from my computer and look for newer version some years down the road... like TS24 or TS25.
I wish you best regards and hope to be back sometime in the future.

 

[SailorDan]

The first issue was a loco that when I went to rename, I instead got an error about loco.gs and nothing else.

If you can quote the asset KUID and the exact error message it can probably be fixed. But the description above is too vague to do anything.

The same with a piece of rolling stock - no commodities.

Much of the rolling stock does not have a commodity - it's up to the content creator whether to include a commodity or not. You can edit any rolling stock to include a commodity of your choice.

As far as build numbers, you are correct and I thought I had that covered when I specify no TS newer than TS12... and I also watch the build numbers when I download via Content Manager (V3.7).

Then the points I made about asset versions will not apply to you.

As far as Routes, Southern China is "Built-in" and has two 'unknown' dependencies... so they the included the defective route in the original software package.

Do you mean Southern China,<kuid:521433:1079>? That has no unknown dependencies, however it does have a few assets that have versions not compatible with TS12, so that is probably an example of downloading incorrect versions.

Do me a favor and look at:
AWVR SD70M 8000s <kuid:758466:100429> or <kuid:758466:100430> - both are 4.5 Mb downloads (about a half an hour at 5.33 KBps) and Build version 2.9 - there are no dependencies or warning before download - once downloaded, it shows 10 dependencies with 5 unknown... so why is it listed as available on Download Station?
FEC Rail Amaerica 105 SD70M-2 <kuid5116661:100304> Build 2.9 - 3Mb download (20 minutes) - no dependencies, no errors or warnings - after download, 9 dependencies with 2 unknown.

With what purpose? You seem to have confirmed that they have some unknown or missing dependencies. Take the advice above - delete any route that you don't like. User-supported content is what distinguishes Trainz from other similar products - it you don't like that you are relying on other users like yourself to provide the content then you can use a product that only supports official expensive content manufactured by the supplier.

Any item on DLS that has "unknown" dependencies should be removed (and the author censored) and any item that is dependant on payware should be listed with $.
Sorry, but I don't think I should have to download content and see if it works if all the information seems to state it will (Build version). Nor should I be penalized when something is listed as good and then turns out to be defective (using up 'daily download allowance").

What information are you looking at that states that DLS content will work? I would have thought that any description of DLS content makes it pretty clear that the quality varies all the way from superb to useless. It takes only a small amount of experience to identify those content creators that provide good quality content, and many routes state clearly in the description whether they rely on external content or not. Just steer clear of those content creators where you have had a bad experience, or those routes that don't have a clear statement about their content.

 

[KotangaGirl]

Gosh. I have TS2012 and have owned it for a while now. I use my copy everyday sometimes for hours at a time and it's fine. I download assets by the dozens from the DLS and have no problems either. Mind you from several years of experience with Trainz I know who the good content creators are and who the bad ones are and I don't also touch anything made by careless (with dependencies) creators.
A word of advice buy a FCT. You can get 7 day ones that are cheap enough and if you can't download everything you want in 7 days then either you have an enormously long list of needs or you're not trying. I'm a person of very slender means on a fixed income and I can afford FCT's no problem. If you do download an asset that's a dog then delete it, - easy. If a route you download is full of unknown dependencies only available from an obscure website in Lithuania then delete that too and move on. I have no interest in any of the built-in content in TS2012 so I can't pass any comment about that.
With many content creators on the DLS you're lucky if you get a thumbnail picture let alone a coherent description and my rule of thumb is that if a creator can't take a proper snapshot of what they've made and describe what it is then it's not worth downloading.

 

[Vern]

Well TANE got progressively worse after SP2 so no surprise that people have moved over to '19. TS12 was end of life so far as my interest which is building routes is concerned, at TANE SP1 HF4. Its (TS12) final iteration was also riddled with bugs and issues as the spaghetti code presumably became too much trouble to unravel when, at the time, focus at N3V was on TANE. Anything earlier than TS12 has issues running on Win 10 and modern O/S and hardware anyway. So while I still baulk at having to pay £55 for TRS2019 (and I wouldn't do that again, marketing please note), there really wasn't an awful lot of choice in the matter.

 

[teddytoot]

I wonder how many of you still use Windows 98. Computing has advanced fantastically since I first built my 2MHz 6502, 8Kb RAM UK101 at the end of the 70s. One has to be realistic; backward compatibility is not always possible if one is to progress. I wish more people would realise that N3V is a small company and to survive they must have sales. Even multi billion dollar companies like Apple push sales of new equipment and Apple isn't well known for preserving backward compatibility.

 

[pware]

With many content creators on the DLS you're lucky if you get a thumbnail picture let alone a coherent description and my rule of thumb is that if a creator can't take a proper snapshot of what they've made and describe what it is then it's not worth downloading.

Excellent advice. Other "gems" of wisdom can be found throughout these forums. To summarise a few more:-

• Check the Freeware Announcements forum. Route creators who care about their work will most likely post an announcement there about their route. You can usually ask them questions and get some support. That is invaluable.
• If the creator states in the route description that all the assets in the route are on the DLS then that route alone is worth more than a dozen other routes that have their assets scattered all over the internet.
• Avoid routes that have a thumbnail that is sideways or shows the bare baseboard grid lines. Thumbnails that have a text label on them, e.g. the name of the route, demonstrate that the creator knows something about creating a dedicated thumbnail.
• Don't be reluctant to delete what you don't like just because you spent the time and ISP charges to get it. I have deleted downloaded routes that were excellent, works of art in fact but they did not appeal to me. I have also deleted a lot of downloaded rubbish routes.

 

[KotangaGirl]

I still have a fully functional Win XP x64 computer which I use from time to time to run older software and hardware. And before anyone starts doomsaying it's not connected to the internet. I agree that companies need to update their products to stay in business and that backwards compatibility isn't always possible; - it's just that I don't like binning things that still work fine.
I know TS2012 is end of life and no longer supported, - and I don't expect it to be, - but for what I want with a railway simulator for everyday use it does me fine. Yes the new one has shadows and highly configurable lighting effects and all sorts of wonderful bells and whistles, but for the kind of route building I do and the types of small railways I like to model and operate it's far more than I want from a railway simulator.

 

[PWeiser]

My observation (I still run TS2009 SP2 very happily) is that they will sometimes insert an "updated" version of a frequently-used/default asset such as an enginesound which includes tags now required by the latest (in this case, TS2019) version but erroneous in previous versions. This happened sometime in T:ANE with the default "electric" enginesound, disabling all my electric rolling stock. It sneaks into your database because they list it as replacing the former version in its config, and you unwittingly download an old electric loco from DLS... which sucks the new asset along as a dependency, at one or two removes.

My solution was to create an "update" (kuid2) of the "new" destructive asset which was actually the old asset. Install, and all is well: DLS won't even try to download the bad one again because it thinks you're ahead of it. (Needless to say, this requires a little insight into how things work, and is probably discommended by the Powers That Be.) You could also delete the bad asset and simply replace it with a copy of the old one edited to have the new one's KUID.

 

[martinvk]

How does TS2009 download an object made for TRS19?

... and is probably discommended by the Powers That Be.) You could also delete the bad asset and simply replace it with a copy of the old one edited to have the new one's KUID.

I don't think those Powers really care what happens on your PC as long as what happens there, stays there. If you ever (never say never) upload a route that contains your fiddled with asset, you might get some choice comments from those who download it.

 

[clam1952]

How does TS2009 download an object made for TRS19?
I don't think those Powers really care what happens on your PC as long as what happens there, stays there. If you ever (never say never) upload a route that contains your fiddled with asset, you might get some choice comments from those who download it.

How? Probably because it was updated for TRS19 in TRS19 and then given a TANE or TS12 build version.

I've done quite a few up-versions of previous versions to get rid of the wrong build updates.

 

[allainp]

From Tony Hilliam, message #6

If you are looking for a product that is leaps and bounds ahead of the 2011 version, then try TRS2019 (which you can do for $15 right now and you'll get a $20 loco included).

Please explain how to upgrade T:ANE for that price as I don't find that offer in the Trainz Store. I would certainly proceed with it.

 

[martinvk]

How? Probably because it was updated for TRS19 in TRS19 and then given a TANE or TS12 build version.

I've done quite a few up-versions of previous versions to get rid of the wrong build updates.

Well if the new version includes any TRS19 only features, foisting it on unsuspecting incompatible previous builds is not very friendly.