Lest I be misunderstood, I've been a programmer (programmer-analyst, to be exact) and I completely see where they're coming from: programmers take the path of least resistance (sometimes with a smidgen of forethought to avoid total spaghetti code) and doing otherwise costs time and money. If ordered to make everything compatible back to a given version this can be done, but expenses mount up and testing stretches. (The only programmer I've met who didn't take the path of least resistance had previously written software for nuclear power plants. Not fast, but you could read his code like a newspaper.) N3V with Trainz is in a difficult position because so much legacy content is viable and the company lacks resources to replace it - hence the cries at each new release that it broke something or other. The really insidious problems are hardest to test for, though not necessarily hardest to fix once they blow up.
TS19 killing all previous TS?
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Lest I be misunderstood, I've been a programmer (programmer-analyst, to be exact) and I completely see where they're coming from: programmers take the path of least resistance (sometimes with a smidgen of forethought to avoid total spaghetti code) and doing otherwise costs time and money. If ordered to make everything compatible back to a given version this can be done, but expenses mount up and testing stretches. (The only programmer I've met who didn't take the path of least resistance had previously written software for nuclear power plants. Not fast, but you could read his code like a newspaper.) N3V with Trainz is in a difficult position because so much legacy content is viable and the company lacks resources to replace it - hence the cries at each new release that it broke something or other. The really insidious problems are hardest to test for, though not necessarily hardest to fix once they blow up.
It's lack of forethought by creators, probably not intentional and it's happened TANE to TS12, TS12 to 2010 and so on, it's not a major problem as such, just a bit annoying when it happens.
$15 gets you a month of TRS19 Silver subscription. You could try it and cancel if you don't like it. http://www.trainzportal.com/pages/trs19-faqs See What is Silver Silver Class Membership in the FAQ.
I run TS10 on Win10 in offline mode so I don't get the update crap all the time. I don't need to download any more as I have a massive storage available. If I do need something I use the white pages with FTP.
I also only run Tane SP1 HF4 and have few problems. It has to run online, but I have few problems with it and disregard updates completely.
SP2 and SP3 were utter mess and wrecked my routes I had run since TS12. TS12 was hopeless due to the TAD problems.
I have been with Trainz for 20 years and bought most versions in that time, but will not be getting any more.
Cheers,
Mike
I also only run Tane SP1 HF4 and have few problems. It has to run online, but I have few problems with it and disregard updates completely.
SP2 and SP3 were utter mess and wrecked my routes I had run since TS12. TS12 was hopeless due to the TAD problems.
I have been with Trainz for 20 years and bought most versions in that time, but will not be getting any more.
Cheers,
Mike
There have been many a route and asset(s) I have downloaded over the past 15 years of Trainzing. Some stuff remained while other stuff just didn't cut it.
Will TRS2019 (TRS19) kill older versions?
I doubt it. New users are where we were when we purchased TRS2004, TS12, or any other Trainz version. These people are just starting at a different point in the game's progress, and this is not unlike the progress of many programs, although Trainz is unique as a franchise. Unlike other programs, however, we can still run the older versions of a program if we want. It may take some tweaking, but it can be done. What's stacked against us in that respect is everything else around that older version has moved forward, and our methods and resources are different, which makes running those versions more difficult. Take TRS2004 for example. It was great when it first came out in December 2003. It was the bees' knees as they say with interactive industries and the new driver command bar which finally had the ability to be saved in a driver session, but the very operating system we ran it on has been obsoleted. Yes we can install Windows XP, Windows 98, and even Windows 3.1 if we want, but that comes at a cost in other areas. The computer hardware is faster and has more memory. These older operating systems don't like this and suffer from ills which are a bit complex to explain here. The alternative is a virtual machine running on Windows 10, for example. Sure these are great, but there are limitations there as well including video memory, and here we are going along this path of no return just because we want to run something older. I liken this to the old lady that ate the spider with one thing used to fix another, but to no return and with too much work.
With that said, TRS19 is more or less up with the current times. Being a 64-bit program, it makes use of all the resources you can throw at it. It also uses the graphics cards we have today in ways never imagined for Trainz. We're no longer limited to 2500 km and we have shadows, grass, and other stuff which was impossible in other versions. This was something the community asked for when T:ANE was being developed. "Give us something that isn't TS12 with a new interface" was said over and over. We felt that even, at the time, TS12 was old, and we were right. TS12 had its day in the sunshine, it still works but with more and more fussing to get going with file permissions, and video drivers. Eventually the download for DX09c will be difficult to find. TS12 got bogged down just as any computer program does as things get bolted on and stuff gets fixed. As the OP should know, and many of us do know, fixing a program is no easy task. Adding in something or fixing something, can and will break something else down the road just like fixing that old Chevy Malibu station wagon that's held together with Bondo.
There's nothing stopping people from running the old stuff, but don't expect it to be updated. Companies need to move on and stay forward looking, and N3V is not any different. The company is small and can't afford to support older products as they used to. It was great when something running Trainz 1.0 could ask the help desk for help, but that's no longer the case. It's no different than asking Adobe tech support for help on Photo Shop 3.0. It costs money to support these older versions whether the program is used or not, and with declining usage of that version, it makes sense to put the efforts into newer versions.
Will TRS2019 (TRS19) kill older versions?
I doubt it. New users are where we were when we purchased TRS2004, TS12, or any other Trainz version. These people are just starting at a different point in the game's progress, and this is not unlike the progress of many programs, although Trainz is unique as a franchise. Unlike other programs, however, we can still run the older versions of a program if we want. It may take some tweaking, but it can be done. What's stacked against us in that respect is everything else around that older version has moved forward, and our methods and resources are different, which makes running those versions more difficult. Take TRS2004 for example. It was great when it first came out in December 2003. It was the bees' knees as they say with interactive industries and the new driver command bar which finally had the ability to be saved in a driver session, but the very operating system we ran it on has been obsoleted. Yes we can install Windows XP, Windows 98, and even Windows 3.1 if we want, but that comes at a cost in other areas. The computer hardware is faster and has more memory. These older operating systems don't like this and suffer from ills which are a bit complex to explain here. The alternative is a virtual machine running on Windows 10, for example. Sure these are great, but there are limitations there as well including video memory, and here we are going along this path of no return just because we want to run something older. I liken this to the old lady that ate the spider with one thing used to fix another, but to no return and with too much work.
With that said, TRS19 is more or less up with the current times. Being a 64-bit program, it makes use of all the resources you can throw at it. It also uses the graphics cards we have today in ways never imagined for Trainz. We're no longer limited to 2500 km and we have shadows, grass, and other stuff which was impossible in other versions. This was something the community asked for when T:ANE was being developed. "Give us something that isn't TS12 with a new interface" was said over and over. We felt that even, at the time, TS12 was old, and we were right. TS12 had its day in the sunshine, it still works but with more and more fussing to get going with file permissions, and video drivers. Eventually the download for DX09c will be difficult to find. TS12 got bogged down just as any computer program does as things get bolted on and stuff gets fixed. As the OP should know, and many of us do know, fixing a program is no easy task. Adding in something or fixing something, can and will break something else down the road just like fixing that old Chevy Malibu station wagon that's held together with Bondo.
There's nothing stopping people from running the old stuff, but don't expect it to be updated. Companies need to move on and stay forward looking, and N3V is not any different. The company is small and can't afford to support older products as they used to. It was great when something running Trainz 1.0 could ask the help desk for help, but that's no longer the case. It's no different than asking Adobe tech support for help on Photo Shop 3.0. It costs money to support these older versions whether the program is used or not, and with declining usage of that version, it makes sense to put the efforts into newer versions.
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Reading much about the TS19 over the past few months am curious as how it will affect creating routes [which I enjoy doing] for uploading to the DLS using TANE SP3. In other words can a user who has TS19 enjoy any route I create, and upload, when constructed in TANE?
I sit on the fence with TS19 and must admit I have a fear that if embracing this latest development do I really need to keep TANE or just uninstall it. Some may like to keep many variations but for what purpose? Will any route I created in TANE work seamlessly with TS19? My concern is that if they [TS19 and TANE] are incompatible, and the future lies with TS19 then would any route I have created using TANE becomes redundant?
Must admit that when looking at vids produced outlining TS19 look exceptional and makes me lean toward purchase. So in essence I am a tad confused here. Do I upgrade or not! If I uninstall TANE, to free up space, will this result in existing routes I have made useless in TS19. An explanation might help me in making a decision.
I sit on the fence with TS19 and must admit I have a fear that if embracing this latest development do I really need to keep TANE or just uninstall it. Some may like to keep many variations but for what purpose? Will any route I created in TANE work seamlessly with TS19? My concern is that if they [TS19 and TANE] are incompatible, and the future lies with TS19 then would any route I have created using TANE becomes redundant?
Must admit that when looking at vids produced outlining TS19 look exceptional and makes me lean toward purchase. So in essence I am a tad confused here. Do I upgrade or not! If I uninstall TANE, to free up space, will this result in existing routes I have made useless in TS19. An explanation might help me in making a decision.
T:aNe routes are compatible with TRS19. The only issue is with assets used in the route. The route itself will work just fine in TRS19.
If the assets are reasonably current then it is likely that they will work in TRS19, but as for any upgrade there are some that used unusual features or implemented something differently and they will get broken by the upgrade. The experience so far is that this is a very small number of the available assets. Restricting your route to builtin assets or DLS assets of build 3.5 and above pretty much ensures compatibility because of stricter validation rules that were applied to these uploads. Assets of lower build or from sites that don't validate the uploads increases the chance of problems.
I have converted (i.e. installed) two of my routes from TANE to TRS19 without any errors, warnings or problems. One of those routes was originally from TS2006 and when I converted that to TANE as a first step in getting it into TRS19, I replaced all the track with procedural track, all the trees and bushes with SpeedTree equivalents and updated many of the old (in some cases really old) scenery assets to TANE standards. Both routes look really great in TRS19.
I have yet to look at adding PBR textures and TurfFX grasses in the new TRS19 versions. That will be the next project.
My policy on upgrades, and I have been through quite a few (look at my timeline above), is to keep the older version in place until I am completely happy with the newer version, and than means I have learned its new features and new controls (if any). Then I delete the older version.
I have yet to look at adding PBR textures and TurfFX grasses in the new TRS19 versions. That will be the next project.
My policy on upgrades, and I have been through quite a few (look at my timeline above), is to keep the older version in place until I am completely happy with the newer version, and than means I have learned its new features and new controls (if any). Then I delete the older version.
valbridge - I am really attached to T:ANE, having supported it since the Kickstarter campaign, but I certainly won't be doing any more route or session development for it hereinafter because TRS19 is so demonstrably superior in almost every respect.
If it weren't for the fact that I'm still beta testing T:ANE and sirgibby is bringing his massively reworked successor of Murchison 2 to T:ANE first, I'd be removing the program entirely from my hard disks.
I am not alone here - check out the views of many others who have migrated to Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019 - they'll never look back either.
It runs faster, looks better, and provides many more crafting options and tools for Surveyor aficionados.
If your rig runs T:ANE well now, then it will run TRS19 just as well, if not better.
If you really like creating routes in T:ANE, then you'll LOVE creating them in TRS19, since it has all of the tools and features you use in T:ANE - and then much more.
All of my routes and sessions created in T:ANE (plus all of my T:ANE DLC, etc.) came over nicely and I have been able to refine them all further in TRS19 to an extent simply not possible in T:ANE.
So, give yourself a Xmas treat and invest in a version of Trainz that will keep you captivated for many more years to come!
Cheers! PC.
If it weren't for the fact that I'm still beta testing T:ANE and sirgibby is bringing his massively reworked successor of Murchison 2 to T:ANE first, I'd be removing the program entirely from my hard disks.
I am not alone here - check out the views of many others who have migrated to Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019 - they'll never look back either.
It runs faster, looks better, and provides many more crafting options and tools for Surveyor aficionados.
If your rig runs T:ANE well now, then it will run TRS19 just as well, if not better.
If you really like creating routes in T:ANE, then you'll LOVE creating them in TRS19, since it has all of the tools and features you use in T:ANE - and then much more.
All of my routes and sessions created in T:ANE (plus all of my T:ANE DLC, etc.) came over nicely and I have been able to refine them all further in TRS19 to an extent simply not possible in T:ANE.
So, give yourself a Xmas treat and invest in a version of Trainz that will keep you captivated for many more years to come!
Cheers! PC.
Many thanks to you all. The Blue Mountains line I constructed, having an Australian flavour, has so far had over 2000 downloads all of which was created in T:ANE and currently [for the past six months or so] have been working on the Southern Region-Brighton Line. Part 1 of which has already been uploaded to the DLS.
Bearing in mind your comments perhaps it might be fair to purchase a months subscription and see how I travel with it. Kind of wondering how much of the Blue Mountains line [assets] might be missing in TS19 if uploaded to it. If anyone has done this I would be interested to know how it fares in TS19. That feedback may well be a turning point to future directions for me.
Cheers, and happy christmas to you all
Val.
Bearing in mind your comments perhaps it might be fair to purchase a months subscription and see how I travel with it. Kind of wondering how much of the Blue Mountains line [assets] might be missing in TS19 if uploaded to it. If anyone has done this I would be interested to know how it fares in TS19. That feedback may well be a turning point to future directions for me.
Cheers, and happy christmas to you all
Val.
So having a spare 10 minutes I downloaded it into TRS19.
One faulty asset <kuid2:506208:100019:1> YARNish T-Intersection L2 +1Si-2Si +3Sh, 09sp4 everything else is error free and nothing missing for both route and session.
Some trees and shrub splines are a very transparent in TRS19, there's an N3V shrub spline one that can replace it that isn't transparent but otherwise all seems OK.
Christopher824
CDETrainz.com
Did not know Microsoft had anything to do with this? All my versions of Trainz work as designed (See my timeline, Thank you N3V). My gigabit internet seems to download as expected. The FCT is awesome.
This post is a WOW moment. I do have an XBox 's' with a terabyte drive and DOOM on it that I would like to sell, any interest?
Microsoft don't have anything to do with Trainz except proving the OS on which it runs. The original OP may have been referring to the Microsoft Train Simulator (MTS) that came out before Trainz but died fairly quickly afterwards.
In any case, the claim that TRS19 is "killing all previous Trainz versions" is total nonsense. It will not stop those people who still have TANE, TS12 or any version back to the original, running on their computer or on an old legacy machine, from using that version.
Does the release of every new model car totally remove all the previous models from the car sale yards, 2nd hand car markets, etc? Does it stop all owners of those earlier models from driving them?
In any case, the claim that TRS19 is "killing all previous Trainz versions" is total nonsense. It will not stop those people who still have TANE, TS12 or any version back to the original, running on their computer or on an old legacy machine, from using that version.
Does the release of every new model car totally remove all the previous models from the car sale yards, 2nd hand car markets, etc? Does it stop all owners of those earlier models from driving them?
KotangaGirl
Pre-Grouping Railways Nut
It looks like my original TS2019 early access version is going to spend the next two days updating itself at the rate it's going.
A year ago I was using TRS 2012 and working on my large route daily. Since then I upgraded to TANE then SP3 .......every time I do an upgrade, my route gets destroyed.......from miles of track spine where it doesn't belong , to missing content, to countless errors. I make a lot of my own structures and it takes a lot of time trying to catch up with having to make so many changes. I haven't touched my route now for a couple months.....I've lost interest again. I'm not blaming anyone, it's just frustrating.........and frustrating to go back to a version that worked, but isn't supported any more. Done that dance before.
Anyway, Merry Christmas and hope the TRAINZ 2019 does well in sales.
Anyway, Merry Christmas and hope the TRAINZ 2019 does well in sales.
Somewhat misleading statement... MS and the developer Kuju may have lost interest in MSTS but the community most certainly didn't. Where do you think Open Rails spawned from? And the team behind MSTS were at least in the beginning, the founders of what is now Dovetail's train simming empire - which at least releases content with decent cabs and for the most part sounds that actually resemble the prototype.
amigacooke
Well-known member
I feel this should read 'Microsoft don't have anything to do with Trainz except providing an OS on which it runs'.
Merry Christmas (or other holiday) to one and all
