Trainz - Comprehensive Manual Available

[novastorm2000]

So one thing that becomes extremely obvious after hanging out here a bit, someone needs to write and publish a private replacement e-manual for trainz that covers all the missing knowledge.

I know some people that do this for other products and they make a living doing it.

I bet someone here could make a few grand selling it for $19.95 and that it would become a highly sought after commodity. The download could include some goodies as well and a link menu to the best tools and sites.

Is there already one?

If not, whose going to write it, surely there are a few capable here and some that probably through these fourms have already written more than half of it.

E

 

[john259]

The Trainz wikibook is one such attempt at doing this.

John

 

[novastorm2000]

Trainz Wiki Book

Is there a complete downloadable version available?

I understand that the intent of a wiki is that it being online makes it evergreen and one looses that when they download, however some people like to have a resource offline that can be accessed and or printed in its entirity.

I noticed there is a download as PDF function, however it only grabbed the first 4 pages. Is there a link you can provide to the complete compiled PDF?

Thanks!
E

 

[john259]

Is there a complete downloadable version available?

Sadly it would appear not. I just had a look round the Wikibooks documentation and to my surprise it seems there is no facility to build a PDF (or any other format document) by automatically recursively searching a book's links tree. The only way, as far as I can discover, would be to create a list of articles manually - which would be a very painful task.

Unless anyone more knowledgeable knows different of course....

John

 

[johnwhelan]

JohnK takes a different approach,http://trainzresources.com/directory/ and may if you ask him very nicely be willing to get involved in a sort of wiki rewrite into .pdf. There are big chunks of the wiki that don't need to be there for a general user guide and I know that John thinks the layout could be improved.

Cheerio John

 

[ianwoodmore]

Perhaps the reverse would be easier.

The CCGTC was supposed to be the basis for the Trainzwiki with the Trainzwiki content superseding the CCG where changes had occured for TS2009/10. The idea was to dump the CCG into the wiki and then worry about the format later. While Auran requested help in inputting the CCG content over 12 months ago noone has volunteered.

I had a go at inputting just the category-region section as I considered a reverse list with countries in alpha order rather than the codes was more useful. A simple list became a struggle with mounting frustration. What should have been a few minutes import became several hours of correcting the layout.

In the interim would it not be easier if we downloaded the wiki changes into the CCGTC which is already in pdf format.

 

[john259]

There's no perfect solution to this problem but to my mind a Wikibook has some very considerable advantages, namely:
It easily allows multiple contributors.
So far it hasn't needed a central administrator.
It's on a public web site which is likely to survive long-term.

However, it might possibly be worth exploring a different public wiki system. The only one I know of is Google Wave but that doesn't seem appropriate for this job.

Obviously I'm totally happy to go along with whatever the majority opinion is, bearing in mind that I'm only a very minor contributor.

John

 

[novastorm2000]

Crawler Approach

Maybe someone can setup a job in an offline crawler to navigate the links and dump it all to local disk and then organize or create a macro to roganize it into a manual each week and publish the PDF to TRD or other public resource for download. Part of the problem you run into on some of this is potential copyright problems if someone puts copyright material in one of the links and then it gets republished.

Having thought about a lot of this its why I suggested a private effort to simply write a great manual and sell it to recoup some money for their effort. I know too little about trainz to pull it off, but I bet you that some of you either alone or as a team could easily pull it off!

I mean no offense to anyone with all this, as you can see the whole issue is problematic.

Think about it, an organized trainz reference where you can flip right to what you need without a ton of searching, that would be sweet stuff! Want to learn to build? Flip to the build chapter for a comprehensive overview, examples, organized in levels with tips for all levels, and even advice for the advanced users!

How about a Major Routes guide.. Overviews, things you can do, little known facts, ect.. Each edition can cover new routes.

Theres easily plenty of material for a honest book offering that people would value and use and make Trainz so much better.

Maybe Auran could benefit to in seeing all the workarounds people have to deal with to simplify and improve next gen versions.

E

 

[VinnyBarb]

There's no perfect solution to this problem but to my mind a Wikibook has some very considerable advantages, namely:
It easily allows multiple contributors.
So far it hasn't needed a central administrator.
It's on a public web site which is likely to survive long-term.

However, it might possibly be worth exploring a different public wiki system. The only one I know of is Google Wave but that doesn't seem appropriate for this job.

Obviously I'm totally happy to go along with whatever the majority opinion is, bearing in mind that I'm only a very minor contributor.

John

The only and by far the biggest problem and obstacle with the current DevWiki is, it is VERY cumbersome to look for something specific and to find related articles which one needs to read further for one thing or another to follow on to gather all informations needed. Although there is a search facility in the DevWiki, try to find something specific with it including their related subjects needed like the various CCGs were made up before the DevWiki.

My idea of a Wiki would be to have a sort of CCG online where anyone can add, correct, flesh out, include pictures or whatever, where ever this needs to be added or better explained as is. Where there is an index one can home in straight away to any subject needed to read up about and also finding their related subjects needed as well. And most important, one can d/load as a PDF file for printing it out.

Example: You want to look up everything needed now of how to set up a locomotive in TS09/10 in the current DevWiki. I bet it will take you several hours of looking at many useless pages when you would like to find out how to configure the various entries needed for TS09/10, how to set up normal mapping, to get all the background information of specular, gloss reflection etc. for GMax/3DSMax, the new bogey configurations with all their new tags possible now and so on and on.

Whereas with a printed out copy of a CCG one can relax either in front of a fire (in the winter) or a Jacuzzi or bathtub (in the summer) with either a glass of bourbon, beer or a cup of coffee or tea and peruse relevant pages, make notes for items, configurations needed, look into the index where related subjects are, like coronas, attachment points, night mode, smoke, etc., place a book mark at a subject for further reading up while looking at related things. Do you get the idea? Try to do this with the DevWiki . I d/loaded all the web pages relevant to what I needed to know as HTML web pages from the DevWiki, guess how big this folder holding all these pages are at this moment? Plus it is still extremely frustrating to get all the relevant and related informations one is actually needing right now when not online and that relevant information is either still missing or can not be found.

The biggest obstacle in the DevWiki is, it seldom gives you an example of, say, a complete TS09/10 locomotive configuration (example only, there are many other complete configuration setups like industry, tracks, tunnels, bridges etc. needed,), which one can use by altering and changing only the details pertaining to your own setup. As was printed in the "old" CCGs and was so easy to follow. Admittedly, one can still check on the old configuration set ups there but as a lot has changed configuration wise since these were set up, it is still a stab in the dark at the moment with lots of items.

Give me a CCG I can print out anytime, I know which one suits me better.

Cheers

VinnyBarb

 

[novastorm2000]

Moodle might be a better option than a Wiki

Moodle is a opensource training module that you can install stand alone. It allows for course development, insertion of multimedia, contribution and usage by multiple users, workflow for multiple users, ect.

This would allow organization and focus by subject, and online environment to multicolaboration and some structure to augment and or link to a Wiki.

Google it and explore it if it sounds of interest!

E

 

[john259]

The only and by far the biggest problem and obstacle with the current DevWiki...

Do you mean the wiki system on Auran's TrainzDev server? Yes, that is a pretty user-hostile lump of software.

The Trainz wikibook uses different software. It's on the Wikibooks system, run by the same people as Wikipedia. Based on a few quick trials a search on there, prefixing what you're looking for by the word trainz, seems quite good but I haven't done a proper extensive test.

Of course, searching with Google is sometimes superior to using a site's own private search facility.

John

 

[john259]

Moodle is a opensource training module

Thanks for that suggestion, I'll have an explore - John

 

[Johnk]

For some reason I missed this post until now. I just looked at the clock and it's almost 5 am and I've already typed the equivalent of the Trainz User Guide twice already today. I should be going to bed, but may I throw in my ten cents worth before I do. At novastorm2000's suggestion I looked long and hard at Moodle, but thought it may be a bit intimidating for most of us. (Especially me!)

I also looked at a program called PHPMyFAQ which looks a bit more user friendly. With this program (script) someone could divide the manual up and make it the basis of discussion. The manual isn't all that bad, it just doesn't cover every contingency.

Say we took a chunk on signalling and entered it ad per verbatim from the manual (Auran's permission obtained of course), the more knowledgeable amongst us could then add their additional comments until all bases were covered. Even then we would probably end up with a pile of conflicting comments, a bit like Yahoo Answers, but some good may come out of it. If people are interested, I'll install Moodle and PHPMyFAQ tomorrow so that you can have a play. I think both have demo sites so alternatively you could go there to see how they work.

Personally I'm not convinced that either are the answer because those of us who try to help the cause are often too busy dealing with issues on the Forum and won't find time to update the database. I don't have an alternative, other than to do what novastorm2000 suggests, and write a book.

I also belong to the Zen Cart Forums and someone there has written a 400 page book on what looks like a simple Shopping Cart. It sells for around $40, but it has more holes in it than a sieve. I think a Trainz book would suffer in the same way. Another similar book is available for Sketchup.

At this stage of my life, I'm more than happy to supply a home for any worthwhile project at no cost. If someone purchases the domain name, the site can then be moved anywhere when I finally get sick of you all.

Any scripts I think of are usually free because I'm not prepared to shell out for something that may be be dumped. it doesn't have to be that way, but please don't ask me to contribute any more than the hosting and bandwidth at this stage.

Having been involved with committees most of my life, I find that too many people with great intentions quickly fall by the wayside. I didn't invent the phrase "If you want anything done, do it yourself!", but for me, it's proven to be true over and over again.

To me, Wiki's and Wikapedia in general are very intimidating. I use Wikapedia daily, but I dread the thought of going there. Other knowledgebases are a bit more user friendly, but they still require a lot of human input.

Folks, I'm wide open to suggestions, I think the idea is full of merit, so if anyone can come up with a suitable free script, let's give it a bash. Volunteers will be needed because I'm falling so far behind it's not funny.

Please keep the thread alive because the idea is worth a serious try.

John

 

[novastorm2000]

Maybe Lo-tech way is better!

How about we do this?

People having the desire and or expertise and wherewithall to do so submit by area of expertise a PDF or word document covering a subject or sub subject.

We designate a librarian to work with that person to help get it broken up into a manageable set of PDFs.

The librarian uses an FTP site to upload the chapters and a simple webpage to link to the chapters.

Users can simply go to the site and downlad the chapters as needed. If you try not to make it a book, that might actually work better. The webmaster/librarian can create a Zip with all the PDFs for people wanting it all.

People who write the chapters can retain ownership. This library can also offer up entire manuals written by users as well. If someone later wants to withdraw their content, they can and we simply advertise a hole and someone else can create the new section and we go forward in that fashion.

You can put an e-mail to link in each chapter so that if peopl ehave feedback they can contact the author and the author can revise it.

This in my mind keeps the documentation clean and hopefully friendly and fast to access and use by subject. it also allows users to grab and print easily what they need.

The librarian can offer up some guidelines to follow about the PDFs, suggested font, graphics, ect.

Those that want to be absentee owners can also provide the orginal MS word/ Mac pages, OpenOffice document for editing and the people can work through the librarian to edit.

You could create some forums as well for people to discuss the documentation, suggest improvements, ect.

I'd be happy to volunteer as the librarian for a while if nobody else steps up, but I am in no way needing or openly desiring this job.. just happy to help get it started and show what can easily be done.

John, I own several domains and could provide all the hosting for this myself, but prefer not to as I think it makes more sense to put it on trainz related servers. If you want to setup the FTP directory and place I can publish a way page, I'll work it over the next couple of weeks and get the page started to start taking submissions. I already have all the webtools I need to create and manage the page and files.

Let me know if this works for everyone and who can contribute. Perhaps if we all agree on this then folks can reach out to possibile contributors to get us a rapid start.

E

 

[john259]

I use PHPMyFAQ for the Razorback FAQ. It's certainly not the worst bit of software I've ever used but it can be very frustrating at times.
Advantages:
* WYSIWYG rich text editing.
* Being server-based it allows multiple authors but AFAIK each must be granted permission by an administrator.
Disadvantages:
* It's payware.
* It would need to be hosted on a server which is likely to survive medium or long term.
* Once an article has been placed in a section, it's difficult or impossible to move it. I did so once and got in a right mess. However, the latest version might handle this better, I haven't yet had the courage to try.
* Converting old data to a new version can be difficult unless you know enough PHP to fiddle internally.

I agree with your comments on Moodle. It's a teaching material creator, presumably perfectly ok for that but IMHO not appropriate for our needs.

Finding a good wiki system other than Wikibooks isn't easy. In my experience most are fairly user hostile. The same goes for CMS's such as Joomla! which I find totally mysterious.

Authoring in Wikibooks and Wikipedia is generally very straightforward when editing an existing article. However, it can indeed sometimes tie you in knots when trying to do more advanced operations.

Another thought - there is a vast amount of good quality material already in existence, but spread out all over the place and in different formats. Perhaps all that is really needed is a collection of links to recommended tutorials and documentation? To that end I've created a new section on the RBR forum here to see what reaction it gets. Please bear in mind that it might disappear or get moved to another part of our site.

John

 

[PEV]

The CCGTC was supposed to be the basis for the Trainzwiki with the Trainzwiki content superseding the CCG where changes had occurred for TS2009/10. The idea was to dump the CCG into the wiki and then worry about the format later. While Auran requested help in inputting the CCG content over 12 months ago no one has volunteered.

I had a go at inputting just the category-region section as I considered a reverse list with countries in alpha order rather than the codes was more useful. A simple list became a struggle with mounting frustration. What should have been a few minutes import became several hours of correcting the layout.

In the interim would it not be easier if we downloaded the wiki changes into the CCGTC which is already in pdf format.

I made an attempt to convert CCGTC for the TrainzDEV wiki.. It was an absolute nightmare. First to convert the pdf to text then to try to lay it out in wiki format, with the diagrams and photos.. I gave up after about 2 weeks work.. I was totally dissatisfied with the results.

It would be easier if we could get the original files from Auran or from Vulcan and edit them, and release again as a pdf. The stuff on the TrainzDEV wiki could be included if we could get permission to do so.

 

[Johnk]

John259, Things must have changed since you haded over your money. PHPMyFAQ is now free and Open Source. From the web site:
What is phpMyFAQ ? phpMyFAQ is an open source FAQ system using PHP and available for many databases. For all features see the feature list.


I downloaded and installed it with no problems or suggestion of fees the other day.


Re the information on your site: Probably everything you have listed plus a hundred additional tutorials including ones I've written myself or edited are already on the Trainz Resources Directory:


Link


They cover:
Tutorials
3D Canvas
3D General
3ds max
Blender
DEM (Geo Data)
Gimp
gMax
MS Paint
Paint Shop Pro
Paint.Net
Photography
Photoshop
Signalling
Sketchup
Trainz


Most categories have many sub-categories. It seems a shame and unnecessary to repeat these, because for starters it undermines, nine months of full-time hard work, but to incorporate them into another possibly more readable document wouldn't hurt:


How do I reskin a locomotive?


To reskin a locomotive or any railroad item you need blah blah.
Several tutorials are avaliable here: Link


That's assuming no one in this little gathering writes their own. The TRD has about 200-300 tutorials listed.


novastorm2000, I've been around Trainz too long to know who will and who won't help with this project. The back of a match box should handle the wills, but a roll of toilet paper probably won't be long enough to accommodate the won't s. The Trainz Wiki has been around much longer than the TRD, but I remember reading about a month ago that it was resurrected. The person's name escapes me at present but John Whelan will no doubt remember the post. The point is, the Wiki hasn't advanced very far in recent months in terms of new material and I'd really love to know how many people actually visit it. The TRD has over 3,000 visitors a week and that's increasing by 15 to 40 percent. it's a lot of patronage to let slip just to start another site, but as it's about to become public, there are many ways any other project can be incorporated. The best part about the Wiki and the TRD is that neither is associated with any web site that may be a conflict of interest.


I'm about to upload PHPMyFAQ and Moodle so you guys can have a fiddle. Nothing will be lost if both are rejected.


PEV, I have 25 years experience as a typesetter and printer. let me look at the CCGTC and I'll probably be able to do something with it. The manual had me a little tossed because I didn't have Acrobat, but that problem has somewhat been resolved. I come from an odd group where everything has to be spelled out. Does CCGTC mean Content Creation Guide ??


I can't work out the TC bit. Does that mean Trainz Classics and is this it?
This one is already in PDF format.

Regards,

John

 

[Johnk]

PHPMyFAQ is operational for testing purposes. Please register, ask a question or answer mine. Let's give it a bit of a test before condemning it. I'll get moodle up as soon as I get some rest.

Please note that PHPMyFAQ is out of the box. Nothing fancy as yet.

http://digital-junction.com/faq

 

[PEV]

PEV, I have 25 years experience as a typesetter and printer. let me look at the CCGTC and I'll probably be able to do something with it. The manual had me a little tossed because I didn't have Acrobat, but that problem has somewhat been resolved. I come from an odd group where everything has to be spelled out. Does CCGTC mean Content Creation Guide ??


I can't work out the TC bit. Does that mean Trainz Classics and is this it?
This one is already in PDF format.

G'day John,

CCGTC is the Content Creators Guide for Trainz Classics.. We were asked if anyone could convert it to wiki format to put it on to the TrainzDev Wiki. As I said I started but I got myself in such a mess I gave up...

Wikis are great if you want some specific info but they are useless as an all purpose reference, which is what the CCG's are meant to be..

I think a more useful (helpful) thing to do would be to add the TS2009-10 data on the TrainzDEV wiki to the CCGTC. Then have it available as a pdf similar to the CCGs for 2006 and TC.

Vulcan did a lot (maybe all) of the leg work for the CCGs, but he cannot be expected to do this for ever. His contribution to Trainz is massive but I think he feels it's time for a break. ( I hope I have not misrepresented you here, Ian)

Hence my thoughts about one of us getting the original files for CCGTC and adding to them.

 

[Johnk]

Hi PEV. I'll shoot over to TrainzDev and take a peak.

Converting the manual (on my link) to the wiki would seem to be a giant leap backwards. Wouldn't it be better just to have a link to the manual on the wiki? That's probably already done.

I seldom visit TrainzDEV so I really don't know what confronts me there. I'll be in touch.

Regards,

John