The part about the DLC not working is correct.
Relevant to this discussion, if N3V extends DRM to the entire game (hence the reason for this thread), then the game would also stop working as well. If they don't, it will.
Trainz and DRM
- Thread starter RRSignal
- Start date
The part about the DLC not working is correct.
Relevant to this discussion, if N3V extends DRM to the entire game (hence the reason for this thread), then the game would also stop working as well. If they don't, it will.
Lol, yeah, I've heard that one before...besides the holes in that theory that one could drive a train through, I have yet to see any evidence that such a promise was made good upon.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Have you looked for any evidence?
Yes, but you're the one who asked the original question, "which game is it please?"
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
I wasnt talking about that part and neither was Chris - there is no evidence that DRM they way you define it is being extended to the entire software. If that is the reason for this thread...
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Wrong again, both CR's post and Windwalkr's response discussed DLC, albeit CR also extended the concern to the game itself. It's right there in the black and blue. If you'd like to quote their posts, I'd be more than happy to do so.
But, yes, the concern of this thread is that said DRM will be extended to the game itself, as is common practice today.
jjanmarine3
Active member
So can we say then that - amongst others - this is the no 1 answer that trainzers would like to know ?
Yes, thank you, that's a good way of putting it.
KingConrail76
New member
As this thread is getting a bit long to re-read at every new post, I would like to point out, that, though it may or may not have been brought up here in this thread, the original questions in OTHER threads, which prompted Tony Hilliam to ask for this discussion of DRM to be moved to a seperate thread, did raise the question of CONTINUED use of DRM implementation in DLC, with regards to those of use not interested in Multiplayer activities being able to edit the content for our own use on our own machines.
Whether or not it was peviously a talking point for this thread is irrelivent, because the question IS relivent to investing in the Kickstarter project, and funding a future product that I may not like to use.
So, in essence, number one question; What is the intended path for DRM implementation in the core Trainz product?
and, the number two question; Is removing some or all of the current DRM implementation on DLC products even an option to discuss (amongst N3V)?
--It was eluded to by Tony, that changing the staus quoe of current DRM implementation was not "completely off the table", but the conversation never went any farther than that.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
you are splitting hairs just so you can have a response. I altered my post to more satisfy your behavior because you are so bent out of shape over the subject.
the enire game becoming non-functional is incorrect, and you were told it was so. that is all.
as for the DLC and the rest, you were given an answer, and just because it isn't what you want you ignore it.
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Thank you for correcting your post, but, I don't see why you're so hot and bothered since the post that's getting you so riled up didn't even concern you and, while wrong on one point, was correct on others. It seems you're arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Would this be a correct summary of the thread so far?
Current situation:
DRM on the DLC 'phones home' occasionally. If it doesn't connect after a month, the DLC is disabled.
DLC cannot be directly edited, but can be aliased / used for reskins, etc.
The main game has no DRM (outside of Steam or other non-N3V distribution platforms).
Future:
There is some concern about DRM being extended to the main game, most notably by people who's Trainz installation does not connect to the Internet, or those concerned about still using the game if N3V goes out of business or shifts focus. These same concerns carry over to the DLC.
There is also a subset of people that are opposed to DRM (and any form of software phoning home) on privacy reasons.
Is that correct?
Curtis
Current situation:
DRM on the DLC 'phones home' occasionally. If it doesn't connect after a month, the DLC is disabled.
DLC cannot be directly edited, but can be aliased / used for reskins, etc.
The main game has no DRM (outside of Steam or other non-N3V distribution platforms).
Future:
There is some concern about DRM being extended to the main game, most notably by people who's Trainz installation does not connect to the Internet, or those concerned about still using the game if N3V goes out of business or shifts focus. These same concerns carry over to the DLC.
There is also a subset of people that are opposed to DRM (and any form of software phoning home) on privacy reasons.
Is that correct?
Curtis
KingConrail76
New member
In a nutshell, that pretty much sums it up, with a few corrections/additions;
-"The main game has no DRM (outside of Steam or other non-N3V distribution platforms)."
--The core Trainz program (all platforms) does use a form of DRM, it that it must have a registered serial number, however, in it's current implementation (TS12 and older products), it would still be fully functional should N3V drop off the face of the earth, and there is no limitation on the number of re-installations, even across multiple computers owned by the same purchaser.
---In my opinion, this is acceptable, and standard practice.
-"There is some concern about DRM being extended to the main game, most notably by people who's Trainz installation does not connect to the Internet, or those concerned about still using the game if N3V goes out of business or shifts focus. These same concerns carry over to the DLC."
--I'll expand the "concerns" to include N3V having the ability to "deactivate" your product, for any number of reasons, such-as, for example, a violation of these Forums CoC, or for expressing opinions which N3V might find "hurtful" to their Business (bad publicity).
---While I'm sure there may be a method to do this already, via Serial Number revocation<sp?>, there are newer DRM protocals, that if implemented, would make the ability to disable a single users products far to "easy", which also makes it easier to "accidentally" deactive the wrong persons product.
- - Far fetched?, maybe, but still 100% possible, and that amount of "authority" is unacceptable for a "Game", in my opinion.
Lots_Trains
TS2010 User
This is typical Justin, he is a N3V fanboy with a vested interest in keeping the Trainz brand squeaky clean and not a bad word said about it.
It is blatantly obvious through this whole thread the concern is over the future T2 becoming DRM with whole of game coverage, he chooses not to see it for obvious reasons.
Justin for you to say "enire game becoming non-functional is incorrect" if this was TRUE!!!! then I'm quite sure Tony Hilliam would have come on here and commented or else where that this was the case and shut this argument down once and for all, but he has chosen not to do so. So you don't have to be rocket scientist to figure it out, its something they must be considering. Justin you take off your N3V tinted glasses.
Curtis You are exactly correct!!!!
Cheers
Lots
KingConrail76
New member
Well that's a bit harsh, and bordering on a "personal attack" in my opinion.
Justin has already discussed his "vested interest" and his personal opinions on DRM, there is no need to bad mouth him for either issue, nor anyone else for that matter.
We all have opinions, and they all need to be respected equally, regardless of what you think of someone personally.
Wow, that's pretty far at the end of the probability curve. By that reasoning, anything is possible but is it probable? And even if, all the existing installations would still work and they are by no means unusable. If I were stuck at my current Trainz version, I would still have years of fun with it.
Considering their user base, if they were to alienate a good portion of it by implementing some drastic control scheme, and thus killing the franchise, would that not be commercial suicide? Rather counter productive. Not only could people go to other simulators but the older versions of Trainz itself would suddenly become very attractive. So I think the probability of that far fetched scenario is pretty low. Then again, my crystal ball is rather cloudy and conspiracy theories are always easy to conjure.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
this is absolute hilarity!
listen if you were paying any attention you would know I have my problems with Trainz. To make the attempt at calling me a fanboy is absurd. It wouldn't take too long to search the forum and find exactly the opposite of what you posted there... nice try though.
That is exactly what I am talking about, there is NO evidence to support this idea.
Currently there is no way that it will become non-functional from DRM - which is what was being said above. That makes the statement incorrect. I think others should be aware of this. Also, there is still NO evidence that the future versions will become non-functional if N3V suddenly disappears from the face of the globe... HOW does this make me fooled by them or a fanboy?
Nope, just pointing out that you were incorrect. You see, I can also have a view on the DRM issue, and I think it is important to show things for what they are instead of insinuating and misinforming others. I wouldn't consider myself riled up, or hot and bothered over it, but I do dislike misinforming people in order to bolster a point. As you can see above, some might take the position of "if they don't come right out and say it isn't true, then it must be true". Without clarifying the current position as Chris did, that could very well be the case.
This is the one part of the DRM argument I find somewhat wobbly. Sure anything is possible, but I do not think this is very likely.
I would agree, this would be rather invasive and I do not support this kind of DRM, if it is such a thing. I would certainly stand amongst those unwilling to support such a system. HOWEVER, at this point there is no indication of this
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I must have overlooked KingConrail's post, but the prospect that a company might turn off their DRM servers for reasons other than bankruptcy is actually quite high and pretty common. Even KC listed an example with Corel software, for example, and I listed several examples in my original post.
As for corporate suicide, probably not. N3V probably didn't help their case when Windwalkr said they don't really consider users of legacy products to be customers:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...e-still-use-Trainz-2006&p=1201296#post1201296
Um, wrong, yet again. I'll provide the relevant quote, originally by Cascaderailroad, and the responds from Windwalkr:
CR was incorrect about the game stopping working (assuming the current incarnation of DRM) but was absolutely correct about the DLC ceasing functionality, which Windwalkr confirmed. So, yes, you are wrong, yet again.
And the purpose of this thread is to find out whether and to what extent the DRM will be extended - specifically, to the entire game itself. That's not misinformation, it's a question. I realize you do not understand the difference, but most here do. The reason for the question is based on many, many factors, which have been already covered here and there seems to be little debate that DRM is common in the video game and software industries and (apart from you) there is a concern by many that full DRM might be implemented in a future version of Trainz.
Edit: Looking at the past several posts, I get the impression we're talking past each other. If you're concerned about Cascaderailroad spreading misinformation, I get that, even though, if wrong, it's relevant to this discussion. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of misinformation on both sides and it seems a lot of people haven't bothered to read the OP or some of the more concise summaries provided by jjanmarine and Pencil42.
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norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
And this was all I said... nothing more.
At this point you are just putting words in my... posts... I have never indicated otherwise. The misinformation is is the speculating and saying this or that will happen with no basis (see below). Again you jump to a conclusion because I do not share the same urgency over it, and here you stoop to insults... Hey if that's what it takes to make you think you won an argument, be my guest.
I don't see any evidence that there will be full on DRM covering trainz. You can try to make it seem like I am the only one that thinks that, or that I have many other motives, but that is all I was saying.
This is the misinformation I am talking about. Surely you can't be as dim as to misunderstand the meaning of this post. If you need an explanation:
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