T:ANE - not buying it

Freedom of speech is a great thing. Opinions are a magnificent byproduct of individual freedom, and to express one's views allow N3V to pinpoint why people don't like their most recent game. If we didn't care we wouldn't be writing these posts. Please stop trying to make us the bad guys in this, as we want to see the game succeed rather than remain in the dust behind the competition. The name so far of the sim, and the company, for whatever reason, has been tarnished. Whether you accept it or not, this is the case. Silencing common views is no way to solve problems, in fact, it only creates more for both the community and the company. You might think that you're helping, but trust me when I say you aren't.

Also, again, it's not your thread to close. Stop acting like it is. If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to read it. Good day sir.
 
Cascade: I did not start this thread to offend or defame N3V, or anyone else for that matter, and your reasoning is bizarre. We should be free to criticise an N3V product on this forum because criticism will help N3V to improve it. And if you think this thread will damage their sales prospects, read the Steam reviews! If you haven't played a game, you have two ways of finding out what it's like. You can go out and buy it, or you can research it, read reviews, visit the forum if there is one, try get some sort of consensus to what the game is like. And frankly, even the impression I get from Trainz's most dedicated supporters here is not good. I do not want this thread closed, as far as I can see they are no personal attacks and it can act as a useful resource for those considering buying the game.
I do however, respectfully ask that you refrain from posting any more in this thread, however.
 
If he likes TANE but does not own it yet, whats wrong with supporting it??? Tell me that?

Nothing in the general run of things.

However, if you are telling other people that you shouldn't have an opinion on a product until you have tried it, then you risk looking foolish if you do the exact same thing.
 
Thank you all for the load of reports (of "both camps" I have to say) on this thread received over the last 8 hours. It clearly confirms your passion.

if you are telling other people that you shouldn't have an opinion on a product until you have tried it, then you risk looking foolish if you do the exact same thing.
I think this about sums it up.

I don't see enough reasons to close this thread (yet), as having your own words (of in this case Cascade) used against you is part of the fun of a discussion. I do think that the point has been made enough now, so I strongly suggest you all continue the discussion on other, preferably untouched, arguments. If it is a continuation of the same arguments over and over again, I will however consider doing some (more) editing, removing or even locking, with or without infractions if needed.

So, carry on, near or on the edge, but not over it. Thank you.
 
Are you a moderator now Oknotsen if so why not the Title under your name ?
To my own surprise, I am one of the (so far 4) new moderators (SantaFebuff, PerRock, oknotsen, zatovisualworks). Btw, everyone can read the names of the moderators below each forum (click here and scroll down).
I was not asked to change my title and since I feel myself more user than moderator I think this fits more. I guess Zato feels the same way.

It should be clear of my post when I am posting as a moderator (like in the above post by referring to the reports) and when not.
If you feel this is unclear in a certain post, send me a PM :). Anything else related to this, send me a PM.
 
Congrats on your new role anyways, glad too see sum experience being added to the mix here.
That's fair enough but it wasn't clear at all if i was new to the Forum and wasn't sure on how to locate the actual Mod's instead of the pre-tend Mod's ( Which we have quite a few here :hehe: ) Maybe an Public Announcement so we all know the new rules and new Mod's ?.
Cheers Mick.
 
Freedom of speech is a great thing. Opinions are a magnificent byproduct of individual freedom, and to express one's views allow N3V to pinpoint why people don't like their most recent game. If we didn't care we wouldn't be writing these posts..
If you did care, you wouldn't be constantly putting it and the developers down but maybe concentrate that effort towards helping fix it.

Please stop trying to make us the bad guys in this, as we want to see the game succeed rather than remain in the dust behind the competition..
Then stop bashing it on nearly every forum and thread you contribute towards.
The name so far of the sim, and the company, for whatever reason, has been tarnished. Whether you accept it or not, this is the case. .
LOL, yes it has been tarnished, and you have done more than your share towards that.

Silencing common views is no way to solve problems, in fact, it only creates more for both the community and the company. You might think that you're helping, but trust me when I say you aren't.
Trust me also, youre doing nothing to help solve the problems either, sadly you cant see that and seem to think your constant ranting over and over again is doing some good.

We have all bagged N3V at some stage, even cascade was when TANE was released. I certainly have and am still out of here when my FCT expires as Ive always said I would - and that isn't far away now which Im sure will make many here pretty happy. But surely there has to be a point when you realise your constant trashing of the game, the developers and all those who say they enjoy it isn't helping yourself, the game, the forum or anything else.
 
Cascade, do you know WHY we're tearing it down? We DID NOT get what we paid upwards of 40 dollars for. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you paid 80 bucks for a new anything, then it turns out to be a piece of crap? I would. I am.

I want to like T:ANE. I want to be able to say "Hey! You should go out and buy T:ANE!". But i can't do that in good faith due to it's problems which you seem to be blind to.

No matter what you say, you keep coming off as a hypocrite, and a very annoying one at that. At least boot up the game first, then say whatever the heck ya' want.
 
Now I'm more refreshed than I was yesterday, would anyone mind if I post my balanced opinion of T:ANE based on my personal experiences?

Shane
 
Now I'm more refreshed than I was yesterday, would anyone mind if I post my balanced opinion of T:ANE based on my personal experiences?

Shane
Go for gold there Shane. I don't think you need permission on where you can and cant post that Im aware of, and you certainly don't need mine :) Im off to bed, so look forward to it when Im on next. Cheers
 
After a diatribe Then close it. Why not a simple sentence followed by a please close. It is ok to believe that N3V is a maligned company only trying to do its best with serious limitations. There are thousands of companies around the world in the same straits. They will not survive on the pity offered by people who are socially bent on a calm peaceful world. Capitalism is a cruel world as is the World itself. It has always been a survival of the fittest on this plant. Pleas to alter that fall on the deaf ears of the majority who follow that survival technique themselves. To avoid complete chaos we invented "civilization". However, it only offers the moderated "unfair and imbalanced" voices of the majority. It is not a guarantee that everyone receives equal time for their opinions.

Tony and his crew probably anticipated the response when they delayed, and later released, two versions of the product which were somewhat usable but flawed. To their credit they bit the bullet and tolerated strong critical commentary - including myself. This is a company forum. As such any moderation is in the hands of N3V. There may be pleas for "love not war" but they will always fail. It is human nature. The ghost of Jim Jones still has some KoolAid in the tubs.

While we continue to stumble across the same infuriating T:ANE bugs day-after-day reality slowly arises to the surface - we ain't steerin the ship. Screaming and yelling at this point will only serve to expose a small majority who are the polar opposite of those who council calm. The rational thing to do, in my opinion, is to just use what you bought and hope that a better product is ahead. There is a limit, of course. When that approaches, without a proper product being available, then the complaints shall once again arise in a crescendo. However, this time anger will have a short life and silence will follow.
 
Thankyou iannz and Cascade. I'm a bit wary at the moment with the various bits that are going on.

Here goes (note that these are from personal experiences as a T:ANE user so I may see things a bit differently to others, so please don't shoot me down if you don't agree with any part of it)...

Note that in some places I will be referring to upcoming features. I will indicate these as I go along.

Good points
1. 64-bit program - this is definitely a plus to me personally as it removes the memory limit that affected previous versions of Trainz.
2. Newer Content Manager - whilst it's not perfect and it could do with some more work, it's definitely an improvement to me personally as it's cleaner than the older PC versions and also has less reliance on third-party libraries from what I've seen.
3. Lack of TADDaemon - this personally is an improvement to me as I used to get quite a few problems with TADDaemon in earlier versions of Trainz when it came to file locking problems and the occasional crash. It looks like TANE now handles what TADDaemon used to handle as part of the core process.
4. Different userdata location - whilst this took me a while to get used to, I personally see it as an improvement as it means that the userdata can be stored separately from the program files which was not possible in earlier versions. This means that userdata can for example be stored on a separate drive.
5. More graphical settings (at least at the moment, not sure about what it's going to be like after the upcoming patches) - this is an improvement to me personally as it allows finer control over some of the graphical aspects of Trainz that were previously not available or in a different format.
6. Upcoming Interlocking Towers pack - This is definitely going to be an improvement to me personally as it will allow me to have finer control over larger stations on my layouts, provided it's done in such a way that it doesn't break existing signals.

Not so good points (at least at the moment)
1. No current OpenGL support - whilst my current system supports DirectX 11, I personally feel that the absence of OpenGL functionality is likely to pose a problem for some including me. Hopefully this is sorted in one of the upcoming patches.
2. Editing/DRM issues with built-in content - this is another area that I feel could be an issue to me personally, as it means that it's harder to see how certain things are done on certain built-in routes and other built-in content as well as not being able to change environmental settings for built-in routes (although I believe that the environmental side is being sorted for either Hotfix 2 or Service Pack 1). I'm hoping that the actual DRM in built-in content is reduced or removed in an upcoming patch.
3. Signalling related bugs - I personally seem to have been hit with this particular problem as I've mentioned elsewhere where the signals do not seem to behave correctly in certain situations. I have raised a bug report on this so hopefully it will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
4. Frame rate issues with shadows - I've personally been affected by this as I would like to be able to run with shadows even if it's on low, although I'm not expecting miracles with my ATI Radeon R5 graphics card. Hopefully something can be done about this in an upcoming patch.
5. Content fault issues - I've been personally affected by some of the faulty content issues, although I know that two of the major errors I've had to handle are being reduced to warnings or removed altogether in the upcoming patches.
6. Content updating difficulties - personally, I usually use the Content Manager method to download content updates but it would be ideal if there was an in-game method for updating content similar to the feature available in TS12. Note that I'm not referring to DLC content (which I'm still waiting for some of my content to become available for T:ANE) which I know is updateable in-game.

I have also been affected by some of the CTD issues although I am trying to find a way of getting a reliable reproduction of it in order to submit a bug report.

I've tried my best to make this as balanced as possible based on my own experiences. Hopefully if other users here who are T:ANE users do similar it may help identify what the good and bad points are.

Shane
 
When TANE was officially released I gave it a spin on my machine. It's almost 5 years old now, due for replacement, but still quite serviceable: i5 2500 3.3Ghz, EVGA GTX 680 2GB GPU, 16 GB Corsair 1333 Mhz RAM, OS (Win 7 Home Premium 64) on a Crucial M4 256GB SSD, TRAINZ on another 256 GB M4, 850W Seasonic Gold PSU. TANE ran fine with mid to semi high settings depending on the route, shadows included. I used the digital version, my Collector's Edition discs are unregistered at the moment. Once I got the general idea and played most of the routes and sessions, I uninstalled it and went back to TS12. Not because of any real issues with TANE, I just want the dust to settle, I only plan on putting TANE "certified" content into it, I am DONE fixing errors and fiddling with content, and I will probably have a new machine built with a year. By then, hopefully, TANE should be hot fixed and service packed and ready to go.

I had been away from Trainz for about a year or, when I came back last year, I read about TANE for the first time and Kickstarter, something I knew nothing about and I immediately pledged. Later on I kicked in even more to bump my Deluxe disc to a Collector's Edition. I don't regret it, even if those discs never get used I'm glad to have pitched in and get my name in the manual and get a snazzy metal box.

I think a major source of frustration and anger is the fact that so many promises were made, delayed , put off and ultimately not kept with the release of TANE. Personally, I would have been fine with waiting 1, 2 or even 6 months for a more finished game, but others would not. Plus, you have to take into account the business realities. The developers are caught between a rock and a hard place. They want to make us happy and get out the best game possible but they have, over their heads, their investors and corporate overlords who want to see the game out and making money immediately. And no, we Kickstarter backers are not investors, no matter how much we feel we may be. The developers are working on fixes supposedly, and the same dynamic applies: one side shouting "Where is it? we want it now", while the other advocates taking time and doing it right. Either way, not everyone will be happy.

I don't have pity for N3V, they are a business and in business you are expected to deliver what you promise. People do have a right to expectations when they put down their money for something. I do, however have empathy for them when they are subjected to some of the mean spirited and personal abuse some here fling at them, I can't say I'd want to readily engage us here while that is going on. I do think they are doing their best, and will remain optimistic that ina not too long a time TANE will be rolling along as we all hoped.
 
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If you did care, you wouldn't be constantly putting it and the developers down but maybe concentrate that effort towards helping fix it.

Then stop bashing it on nearly every forum and thread you contribute towards.
LOL, yes it has been tarnished, and you have done more than your share towards that.

Trust me also, youre doing nothing to help solve the problems either, sadly you cant see that and seem to think your constant ranting over and over again is doing some good.

We have all bagged N3V at some stage, even cascade was when TANE was released. I certainly have and am still out of here when my FCT expires as Ive always said I would - and that isn't far away now which Im sure will make many here pretty happy. But surely there has to be a point when you realise your constant trashing of the game, the developers and all those who say they enjoy it isn't helping yourself, the game, the forum or anything else.


Being critical of the game in the face of people trying to cover up the bad parts of it certainly works better than lying to consumers about the benefits of the game. It's not what we were sold, and to say that it was would do more harm in the way of alienating future customers than bring new ones in - it's stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. Sadly YOU can't see that and instead think that covering up the obvious bad parts of the game will make them go away. If it works for you, great. It certainly doesn't for loads of other people. I've said this before and I'll say it again: I'm happy to give T:ANE praise when it's earned it. If N3V fixes the problems with the game then I won't have any qualms whatsoever with singing praise, but at it's current state we have a long way to go before I'll even consider doing that.

The simple fact is that it's in N3V's hands now. I'm going to continue to hold my opinions until N3V proves me otherwise - I would think the same for many others here as well.


Shane, I'd find that pretty balanced as well. Imo, some things were left out, such as the lack of delivery of SLI/Crossfire support, the lack of support of DEM data, moving onto a different speedtree build, effectively breaking most of the trees that have been used on past routes, lack of support for content creation, lack of documentation of how to implement new features, and lack of general optimization of the game go a long way in making people dissatisfied with the game.
 
~snip

Shane, I'd find that pretty balanced as well. Imo, some things were left out, such as the lack of delivery of SLI/Crossfire support, the lack of support of DEM data, moving onto a different speedtree build, effectively breaking most of the trees that have been used on past routes, lack of support for content creation, lack of documentation of how to implement new features, and lack of general optimization of the game go a long way in making people dissatisfied with the game.

Thankyou for your comments. Apart from the speedtree issue, which I believe was partly caused by IDV due to the fact that Speedtree V5 did not support 64-bit applications, I haven't actually been personally affected by the other issues yet so can't actually comment on them.

In terms of new features, if it's something I can get my head round, I may be able to help document them.

Shane
 
Being critical of the game in the face of people trying to cover up the bad parts of it certainly works better than lying to consumers about the benefits of the game. It's not what we were sold, and to say that it was would do more harm in the way of alienating future customers than bring new ones in - it's stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. Sadly YOU can't see that and instead think that covering up the obvious bad parts of the game will make them go away. If it works for you, great. It certainly doesn't for loads of other people. I've said this before and I'll say it again: I'm happy to give T:ANE praise when it's earned it. If N3V fixes the problems with the game then I won't have any qualms whatsoever with singing praise, but at it's current state we have a long way to go before I'll even consider doing that.

The simple fact is that it's in N3V's hands now. I'm going to continue to hold my opinions until N3V proves me otherwise - I would think the same for many others here as well.


Shane, I'd find that pretty balanced as well. Imo, some things were left out, such as the lack of delivery of SLI/Crossfire support, the lack of support of DEM data, moving onto a different speedtree build, effectively breaking most of the trees that have been used on past routes, lack of support for content creation, lack of documentation of how to implement new features, and lack of general optimization of the game go a long way in making people dissatisfied with the game.
Despite what you think, I can see that and I agree with most all you have said. And personally, I have covered up nothing or tried to, I had my rants on things, the state of the trees I spoke out about many times, the amount of time its crashing was another, the CM and what I think of that. But the thing is, Ive let them (N3V) know and be aware of what I think and feel and then moved on, there is nothing more I can do, its in their court to fix it now (as you have said above) and from the posts on the hotfix2 and service pack in the works, I hope they do (without breaking more stuff along the way or altering draw distance).

General rule of thumb is that when you buy a new or updated version of a game, you expect it to be better than the previous version, and I don't think anyone here would disagree that in some cases it is better, but in some cases it is also worse. Parts of it are lacking polish and look unfinished, very basic parts of it are completely missing, it is very disappointing in many aspects of the game. Is it trying to be covered up? No, not by any member at least, I do think N3V are playing down the issues though. Am I hoping it will go away? Yes, I damn well hope so with the next hotfix or update that most of the issues will be dealt with. There is a long way to go as you have said.

Ive seen many of your screen shots in the comp as you know, many of them are stunning and I can only guess how passionate you are about the game as many are here, Im sure most here would find TANE a let-down in some area(s), if not frame rates, then the state of the CM or the lack and changing of the trees (not to mention the ghastly green appearance at distance), or lack of DEM support, DRM, editing built-in assets or something. The thing is, most people here actually support what you and others are saying, but when threads are destroyed with endless complaints about the same thing over and over again, it just gets a bit irritating and creates a backlash between members instead of members focusing their frustration at N3V. Even the games biggest supporters (well most noticeable ones from their posts anyway), have had/got issues. Shanes can be read above, John has had many that began at installation, or downloading the "patch" at least, and if what Roy posts in his videos are what he has got, then I wouldn't be happy with that either - in fact I personally think it runs and looks worse than what I can do in my one.

We're all in it together, there is no sides to take and we all want the same result, in house fighting isn't going to help anything. This term "fanbois"/"fanboys" whatever that's been used a lot doesnt exist and only irritates people when used because it is untrue as those same people labelled are also ones who are having problems as well - just maybe not the same problems. No one has said the problems exposed don't exist, just that those specified problems don't exist for them while other problems do, yet they are all of a sudden labelled as a fanboy.

(removed attack on a 3rd party group)

IMO, going on and on about it right now isn't going to change anything anymore, however, after the next fix/patch whatever, if things aren't better, then N3V better find shelter because many players will be getting ready to rain hell down on them.

My opinion only. I wish all a happy day trainzing wherever they may be.
 
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