Patching TS12 v. 49922 to v. 57720

[geoffwilliams]

Added a few comments on the announcement but will repeat here.

No mention of a fix to splines unhooking at fixed objects after you save and return to the route later in Surveyor.
Nothing to eliminate the 0.2m gap between spline point and terrain.

Integrated DLC sounds like a poor man's Railworks/Steam - so long as this can be switched off as there is a very good reason for excluding payware from the development machine, where I only use built in or DLS assets.

The spline problem remains. Nothing has been fixed here.

 

[pcas1986]

I have finally managed to install SP1 after about the 7th or 8th attempt. Turning off the anti virus seemed to do the trick but I have a new problem that I cannot get past the startup options menu. It attempts to do a database repair (or similar) but after processing a few assets the dialog box disappears. I managed to capture this TADDaemon window.

The problem has to do with script libraries and a look at the folders doesn't offer any insights. Any suggestions?

TIA

Edit: I went and looked and there are 105 libraries (gsl) in the folder. Does that sound right?

 

[WindWalkr]

I have finally managed to install SP1 after about the 7th or 8th attempt. Turning off the anti virus seemed to do the trick but I have a new problem that I cannot get past the startup options menu. It attempts to do a database repair (or similar) but after processing a few assets the dialog box disappears. I managed to capture this TADDaemon window.

Unfortunately that sounds like your build may be damaged. You can try deleting the contents of the UserData/Cache folder and then running an extended database repair, but if that error is accurate then a reinstall my be the only thing which fixes this.

chris

 

[geoffwilliams]

Jim,

I think you're reading into this a lot deeper than it really is. N3V has had this system in place since TRS2006 which is about 6 years now, I think. When TRS2010 came out, anyone that purchased S&C and other packs prior to this release, had to do a manual patch for their content. With this version, N3V has implemented an automatic patch and update for these already purchased versions as well as built-in access to payware and other content within the program its self.

The content has to be updated separately because it is in the compressed archive format used by the Trainz program and cannot be accessed and updated like other assets that are installed through the DLS and Content Manager.

So nothing is really new other than the way the content is updated.

EA, on the other hand, has other issues with DRM. At least it's a lot better now with Origin than it was ever with Secu-ROM, besides you can always run your Trainz install offline if you want.

John

I'm sorry but Jim's dead right. This is, in no way a service pack to an existing product, but a redefinition of the product itself. All payware that I have bought in the past can no longer be installed in the product. It is all downloaded again, all at once, and created havoc on my system. After a reboot had to keep cancelling the downloads to ensure only one at a time was downloaded. And when it is downloaded, it is locked, you cannot customize it as you could the original product. It is indeed a pathetic attempt to copy the DRM systems of others.

Perhaps what is most annoying is that, for me, the major bug in TS12 was the way splines moved all over the place when a some routes were saved. This remains exactly the same in the new version.

I get the feeling, from announcements read, that the codebase of TS12 with its so-called service pack will form the new product TS14 or whatever they wish to call it. I strongly urge whoever is concerned to re-think this. You shot yourselves in the foot once before by removing compatibilty mode in new products, you are now on the way to doing it again. The one thing which makes Trainz so popular is the ability to mod it. Lock down your content at your own risk. I, for one will buy no more.
Geoff

 

[pcas1986]

Unfortunately that sounds like your build may be damaged. You can try deleting the contents of the UserData/Cache folder and then running an extended database repair, but if that error is accurate then a reinstall my be the only thing which fixes this.

chris

Thanks for the quick reply but it didn't work. Maybe I'll take up golf instead.

 

[ianwoodmore]

Paul,

Open WTM Resource Monitor and see what activity.

If Trainz is trying to sort things out you should see MS Searchindexer in CPU is very busy. In Disk, TrainzUtil should be working its way through the local and original folders.

It can take a lot longer than people think to get SP1 settled down, especially if you have a large TAD.

 

[WindWalkr]

And when it is downloaded, it is locked, you cannot customize it as you could the original product.

This is true, but is a side-effect of the distribution method rather than anything else. It's certainly not the intention that "payware" and "freeware" become two completely separate domains.

It is indeed a pathetic attempt to copy the DRM systems of others.

And this isn't true. This system is ours from the ground up, and is designed to suit the needs of Trainz users and our content creators.

Perhaps what is most annoying is that, for me, the major bug in TS12 was the way splines moved all over the place when a some routes were saved. This remains exactly the same in the new version.

I'm not aware of what you're referring to here. Could you please give a step-by-step example?

I get the feeling, from announcements read, that the codebase of TS12 with its so-called service pack will form the new product TS14 or whatever they wish to call it.

Trainz is an ongoing product. Every version we release forms the basis of the next. It has always been this way, and I don't expect that we'll change this in the future.

I strongly urge whoever is concerned to re-think this. You shot yourselves in the foot once before by removing compatibilty mode in new products..

I'm not sure why you think that. Certainly from our perspective it was a very good thing. Sure, it meant leaving some of the older content behind, but it's bought us a lot in terms of newer content and capabilities.

kind regards,

chris

 

[WindWalkr]

Thanks for the quick reply but it didn't work. Maybe I'll take up golf instead.

Which bit didn't work? The repair or the reinstall, or both?

As per my previous post, I'm not really expecting the repair attempt to succeed. I would be surprised if a clean install plus patch did not succeed, however.

chris

 

[pcas1986]

Paul,

Open WTM Resource Monitor and see what activity.

If Trainz is trying to sort things out you should see MS Searchindexer in CPU is very busy. In Disk, TrainzUtil should be working its way through the local and original folders.

It can take a lot longer than people think to get SP1 settled down, especially if you have a large TAD.

I don't think it is a matter of time, Trainz is bailing out because of a problem. To be more specific, when I click on Start, Content or even Quit, it opens a dialog box and says it is updating the database. After getting through some hundreds of assets (out of ~250,000) the dialog box disappears. If I click on one of the options it repeats the process until it eventually refuses to do anything. TADDaemon starts up for each but runs for a while, puts out the error I reported and then says its quitting.

For Chris: All I have done is remove the contents of the userdata\cache as suggested. It made no difference. My plan is to leave the corrupted version in place and re-install TS12 from scratch. My own content I can re-install from source but I've lost my test routes and sessions. Foolishly I didn't back those up.

Its been a long 24 hours. It took 6 hours to download the patch, then 6-7 attempts to install only to have it bail out after 1-2 hours has tried my patience. I need another hobby.

 

[WindWalkr]

My plan is to leave the corrupted version in place and re-install TS12 from scratch. My own content I can re-install from source but I've lost my test routes and sessions. Foolishly I didn't back those up.

Unless you've gone and deleted it yourself, I don't think you've lost any content. It will still be in the UserData/Editing or UserData/Local folders. Once you get a new install working, just drag those folders into the CM windows to have it import the content from the old build.

Its been a long 24 hours. It took 6 hours to download the patch, then 6-7 attempts to install only to have it bail out after 1-2 hours has tried my patience. I need another hobby.

Yeah, that doesn't sound fun. You may want to run a ram check on your machine at some point. It's also worthwhile making sure that all virus checkers (etc) are disabled while attempting to install or uninstall, as bugs in those can cause all sorts of fun.

chris

 

[pcas1986]

...It will still be in the UserData/Editing or UserData/Local folders. Once you get a new install working, just drag those folders into the CM windows to have it import the content from the old build....
chris

That's of real interest!

Will that work for DLS content or CDPs I have obtained directly? i.e. not my content. For example, I was in the middle of writing some scripts for others and those assets are not yet on the DLS. I do have the CDPs for those so that's not a big issue.

For stuff I develop I keep in an AssetX Home Folder so that is safe.

In addition to the virus checker, the Windows Firewall also needs to be off or at least tailored to allow TADDaemon.exe access to the Internet.

 

[pcas1986]

Mea Culpa! (my fault)

I found the problem that was causing the creation of the script libraries to fail.

I had inadvertently saved one of my test scripts in the TS12\scripts folders. I only detected it by looking at the userdata\library folder and realised it had one less gsl file than expected. i.e. there were 105 gs files in ts12\scripts but only 104 gsl files. Hope that makes sense.

So I deleted my test script and the database update proceeded normally.

I noticed TS12\scripts is read only so I have no idea how it got there. I do tend to look at the Trainz scripts often. Maybe I'll copy them and put them somewhere else so I don't screw it up again.

Thanks for the help (Gareth and Chris)

 

[clam1952]

I noticed TS12\scripts is read only so I have no idea how it got there.

Win7 peculiarity it shows folders as read only even when they are not. Example the Trainz screenshots folder or would you believe My documents, contents are all read / write.

 

[WindWalkr]

Will that work for DLS content or CDPs I have obtained directly? i.e. not my content. For example, I was in the middle of writing some scripts for others and those assets are not yet on the DLS. I do have the CDPs for those so that's not a big issue.

Yes. CM will happily install all the third-party content.

In addition to the virus checker, the Windows Firewall also needs to be off or at least tailored to allow TADDaemon.exe access to the Internet.

This is recommended as a general rule, not just during installation.

So I deleted my test script and the database update proceeded normally.

Glad you found the problem short of a full reinstall. That's not one that I've seen somebody do before

chris

 

[Vern]

Re spline detachment...

I'm not aware of what you're referring to here. Could you please give a step-by-step example?




chris

Now please Chris this has been discussed several times at length in the forums and I'm almost certain I formally reported it as a bug to the helpdesk. It has been present since at least TRS2009 if not earlier and still manifests in TS12. However, just to refresh your memory the bug is that on re-opening a previously edited route it is not uncommon to find that around the location you saved before exiting Surveyor, any splines attached to a fixed object (station, level crossing even a tunnel portal) have become detached and skewed at an odd angle. The orphaned spline point cannot be selected or moved and it is necessary to split and delete the front portion before you can select the spline point and re-attach.

 

[paperpusher]

It took over 3+ hours to patch TS12 on my laptop. Another couple hours to update the assets. When I tried to access the Content Manager V3.7 it crashed in that module. I still prefer my TrainZ2010 but would love to have some of the assets from TS12 that would work on TrainZ2010. (I had to run the patch on W7 w/open/run by administrator as when it ran w/o that request, the patch crashed.

 

[CaptEngland]

Originally Posted by geoffwilliams

And when it is downloaded, it is locked, you cannot customize it as you could the original product.

---

Originally Posted by WindWalkr

This is true, but is a side-effect of the distribution method rather than anything else. It's certainly not the intention that "payware" and "freeware" become two completely separate domains.

---

Hi Chris (WindWalkr),

I'm confused. What is locked. The editing of DLC assets, or the editing of DLC route's, or the editing of scenarios, or all three?

Regards,
CaptEngland.

 

[Vern]

Well I'm taking the plunge and downloading the patch now. With reference to the "locking" of payware assets does this in fact mean they can no longer be referenced in third party routes or is it just that you can't edit the original content? Murchison 2 was at least partly sold on it being an asset pack for freeware route builders...

 

[raildumper]

Originally Posted by WindWalkr

I'm not aware of what you're referring to here. Could you please give a step-by-step example?

Re spline detachment...

Now please Chris this has been discussed several times at length in the forums and I'm almost certain I formally reported it as a bug to the helpdesk. It has been present since at least TRS2009 if not earlier and still manifests in TS12. However, just to refresh your memory the bug is that on re-opening a previously edited route it is not uncommon to find that around the location you saved before exiting Surveyor, any splines attached to a fixed object (station, level crossing even a tunnel portal) have become detached and skewed at an odd angle. The orphaned spline point cannot be selected or moved and it is necessary to split and delete the front portion before you can select the spline point and re-attach.

The splines bug has been reported several times, this one by me almost 2 years ago: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?78417-Fixed-tracks-still-buggy
I know someone from N3V was reading my thread (can't remember who) but he didn't bother to answer. I never use Trainz's anachronic system of turnouts, just my own fixed tracks system with smooth animation. I was hoping to see this addressed in SP1, as it also affects to tracks connected to bridges and such.

 

[geoffwilliams]

This is true, but is a side-effect of the distribution method rather than anything else. It's certainly not the intention that "payware" and "freeware" become two completely separate domains.

Side effect or not, if users are't allowed to cusomize built in routes you have a problem.

And this isn't true. This system is ours from the ground up, and is designed to suit the needs of Trainz users and our content creators.

Really? It seems a very very poor copy of what Rail**** and M***softt Flight do ;-)

I'm not aware of what you're referring to here. Could you please give a step-by-step example?

I can't believe you have said this.
It has been discussed on the forum so many times. You import a route, modify it in Surveyor and then save it. Open it up again and splines have moved,
usually in, but not restricted to height. Thus telegraph poles are sunk into the ground, road bridges are underground and often skewed. It is quite reproducable
especially for the Skipton Carlilse route, but that will not matter in future versions where the routes cannot be edited anyway. This is the reason I have not used
TS12 since I bought it, and also the reason I will now bin it and stay with TS2010.

Trainz is an ongoing product. Every version we release forms the basis of the next. It has always been this way, and I don't expect that we'll change this in the future.

Then you stand to lose a lot of customers. Trainz for a lot of us will end with TS2010.

I'm not sure why you think that. Certainly from our perspective it was a very good thing. Sure, it meant leaving some of the older content behind, but it's bought us a lot in terms of newer content and capabilities.

You cannot be serious. Take the Murchinson addon as an example. It was designed for compatibility mode, where it looks good and runs smoothly. In TS2010 native mode it looks terrible, in TS12 it looks a little better with antialias settings, and lags like a slideshow. OK, I know it's a personal view, but you put hand on heart and tell me that's progress. Oh and bye the way I'm running Windows7 64bit, 8GB ram and 3GB graphics card, so I'm fairly confident it isn't a hardware issue.

Kind Regards
Geoff