Article: Open Letter to the Trainz Content Creator Community

[hminky]

So T:ANE is backwards compatible except for the new validations. That's somewhat of a change from the previous definition of backwards compatible that was provided - if it works in TS12 it will work in T:ANE.

The "using .tga files" thing is a big deal, importing content is full of this error in T:ANE.

What is amazing it that built-in content will have this error on a database rebuild. If the built-in content is opened for edit and reverted the content will validate.

Go figure!!

Harold

 

[chefbyte]

Spot on that Tony, help yourself to a beer

 

[dricketts]

Ok, here's an attempt at clarification about my TS12 import comments:

1. I own TS12 so I'll create a .cdp file of my route + TS12 builtin dependencies and import that into TANE.
2. Result = damn, half the things are broken and show errors (like missing textures).
3. Reason = builtin assets in TS12 do not content exportable textures (they are compressed via the .ja archive process and cannot be copied elsewhere)
4. Instead you need to import your TS12 route WITHOUT TS12 builtin dependencies and then download the missing dependencies from the DLS (once we have updated the DLS over the coming weeks).
5. Note that this applies only to builtin content in TS12 that isn't in TANE builtin. Previously downloaded content can be exported from TS12 via cdp and imported into TANE

Would the same process be followed with a route created with TS2010 and built in content?

 

[mtldrm38]

Well put Mr Tony Hilliam.

 

[llebrez]

So here goes my grain of salt: I will call it asset instead of content in general. Let's say I import into TANE my route, and it works perfectly in TS12. But in TANE it shows plenty of faulty, missing dependencies, and all. More precisely let's say there is a particular asset that is vital, such as an interactive station with adjustable passenger height for example. I would expect, that if this asset is not supported, another should be made to replace it, so the overall functionality of the route is not compromised. Am I asking for too much? maybe. But take a look at another stance (Possibly this has been included in TANE): Eons ago, I had a rule that would make rain or snow on a section of the route. It was triggered by a train going by a trackmark. It was very neat. One day, a new version of TS came along and it would not work anymore. And there was nothing to replace this effect! Bottom line is that for the sake of progress, we should not lose features we love having, in exchange for things we may not care so much. Hope no one get's offended by this.

 

[shaneturner12]

So here goes my grain of salt: I will call it asset instead of content in general. Let's say I import into TANE my route, and it works perfectly in TS12. But in TANE it shows plenty of faulty, missing dependencies, and all. More precisely let's say there is a particular asset that is vital, such as an interactive station with adjustable passenger height for example. I would expect, that if this asset is not supported, another should be made to replace it, so the overall functionality of the route is not compromised. Am I asking for too much? maybe. But take a look at another stance (Possibly this has been included in TANE): Eons ago, I had a rule that would make rain or snow on a section of the route. It was triggered by a train going by a trackmark. It was very neat. One day, a new version of TS came along and it would not work anymore. And there was nothing to replace this effect! Bottom line is that for the sake of progress, we should not lose features we love having, in exchange for things we may not care so much. Hope no one get's offended by this.

Good point there, but most of the time it's something the creator(s) of the problem assets need to fix in order for said content to work as T:ANE does have a few new errors and warnings.

Shane

 

[Karboom_]

Do Construction-dependencies realy change since v3.0? No!
Your Asset Version Numbers are Fakes and Everybody knows it!

You want better Content for Tane? Support the Worldwide Creator Community!
Produce well working Tools and Docs to give them the capability to manage the Nuts&Bolts!

We dont need a CCG like the one fom 2006 - we need Things like the Wiki with better Examples.
We need a well documented Scriptengine and Language with a Debugger Interface!
And we need valid Standarts for the next 5 Years, not for a diggit behind a decimalpoint!
3d-Technics dosn't change in that speed as you try to turn the wheel with "new" Trainz Versions!
The Quality of Assets is a Question of "Love to Details" depended by Creators, not depended by a Version Number.
A differnt Thing... "the Compatibility" is a Question of Changes made by YOU in the last 10 or 12 Years and MAY reflect in a Version Number.
We all remember the Problems behind Alphamapping, Scripting, wrong working CCP and Contentmanager... Guys!
And we think about it... all DLS Content was proven by You.. once upon a time !
So if you wanna give a good Example, dont speak - update the Auran (buildin) Content and Tools .. not only by turn up the lolfake Versionnumber!
Thank You!

 

[haddock57]

Thanks for the update Tony. While I'm happy with TS12 right now, running on build 61388, I still don't quite understand this issue about why people want DRM in their Trainz install. I hate to raise an old issue, but with T:ANE being released soon, I would honestly be a bit upset if half my content stopped working for some odd reason. I realize people don't want their content edited or modified or anything like that, but sometimes i wonder why some content includes that.

Hoping that the new version of T:ANE will impress me, and hopefully it will be stable and not have a lot of bugs.

 

[beckster181]

Tony,

I agree that you are making things better in the long term by tightening up validation requirements. However, my concern is that people like myself that have purchased payware content from NV3 are not able to use it as they wish due to this fact, So far in TANE whilst i can import from TS12 most of the items i own only 2 are auto showing in TANE (aero train and PRR modern) so thus says to me they are ment to work in TANE but the other items i have when imported then say that dependencies are missing or obsolete when you use the TANE content manager to try to locate many missing dependencies it states AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD,OBSOLETE but wont download them ???

CAN anyone explain why content that is loading as vers 1.3 will work perfect and stuff loading as version 3.5 pr higher wont when both come from same place like AURAN?

cheers
becky

Tony,

Your reply to this was not accurate as it didnt answer the main question about why stuff showing in TANE download manager shows as available to download and as obsolete you cant download it!!!!!! OR

EXPLAIN WHY stuff from same creator and specifically listed as created by AURAN items that have so called unsupported build numbers work fine and others that are within supported build numbers dont !!!!!!!!!!!!!! you give the idea that the old stuff will work cause it was built right at the time but the new stuff wasnt but it is all form your company so fail on you.

AND while we are at it why do items that are on the DLS disappear for no reason and also disappear from our own files on our computers i am speaking of assets from within layouts that are made freely available with when made all assets able to be downloaded from DLS that for some reason those needed assets simply disappear????????????

 

[shaneturner12]

Becky - perhaps I can answer some of your questions (I know I'm not Tony but I do understand a lot of what goes on).

As for the obsoletes, there are very few reasons why a user should need to download an obsolete item.

As for the DLC content, N3V have made it clear that that content is due to be available on or shortly after release day.

As for the validation, as has also been mentioned several times on here, there is some new validation in T:ANE which means that some newer content is going to be faulty anyway. Most of the time, it's simple errors that the content creator has made. In some cases though, it's due to users trying to get round the system by making up their own user IDs. Anyway, N3V are uploading built-in content from TS12 onto the Download Station.

As for disappearing assets, the main reason said assets disappear is if they have violated the copyright of another user (i.e. an illegitimate copy of another asset) and the creator of the original asset has reported said fact to N3V. If content is disappearing from your own system, then it's something wrong on your system or you have not got something set right.

Shane

 

[Digitalclips]

... time to realize Apple is way more important than Microsoft. Get the freakin' Mac version out!

 

[n8phu]

Do Construction-dependencies realy change since v3.0? No!
Your Asset Version Numbers are Fakes and Everybody knows it!

You want better Content for Tane? Support the Worldwide Creator Community!
Produce well working Tools and Docs to give them the capability to manage the Nuts&Bolts!

We dont need a CCG like the one fom 2006 - we need Things like the Wiki with better Examples.
We need a well documented Scriptengine and Language with a Debugger Interface!
And we need valid Standarts for the next 5 Years, not for a diggit behind a decimalpoint!
3d-Technics dosn't change in that speed as you try to turn the wheel with "new" Trainz Versions!
The Quality of Assets is a Question of "Love to Details" depended by Creators, not depended by a Version Number.
A differnt Thing... "the Compatibility" is a Question of Changes made by YOU in the last 10 or 12 Years and MAY reflect in a Version Number.
We all remember the Problems behind Alphamapping, Scripting, wrong working CCP and Contentmanager... Guys!
And we think about it... all DLS Content was proven by You.. once upon a time !
So if you wanna give a good Example, dont speak - update the Auran (buildin) Content and Tools .. not only by turn up the lolfake Versionnumber!
Thank You!

Spot on sir.

I would also add that supporting Content Creators on the forums. People making Cough Cough "Helpful suggestions" trying to get things made their way, "When are you going to make this", or "Why didn't you make it like this?" can be a major turn off.

Supporting Content Creators you would think would be more important than putting up with people like this.

No other site in the V scale community puts up with it.

 

[jacksonbarno]

I would agree. As I said in another post, content creators make this sim go 'round. Trainz would not be nearly what it is today without the community that we have developed to back it up. All of a sudden, it seems that N3V would like to take this for granted. Hopefully they don't kill the golden goose.

 

[wva-usa]

I would agree. As I said in another post, content creators make this sim go 'round. Trainz would not be nearly what it is today without the community that we have developed to back it up. All of a sudden, it seems that N3V would like to take this for granted. Hopefully they don't kill the golden goose.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm remembering Trainz history correctly, back in the very early days when Trainz steam locomotives didn't even exist, it was largely due to the efforts and "hacking*" of 3rd party content creators, the so-called "fan content creators", that the first steam locomotives were created for use in Trainz. I believe Auran wrote the (steam) code, but it was the "fan" content creators that turned out something (steam locos) that actually worked in Trainz.

* I'm referring creative (computer) "hacking", _not_ the destructive kind (cracking)... e.g., "A hacker is one who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming and circumventing limitations of programming systems and who tries to extend their capabilities."

 

[samplaire]

2 simple things:
- the new TrainzContent doesn't allow to 'create new version'
- no CCP in TrainzContent which unables me to update the trainz build to fulfill new DLS requirements.

We call it : "you drop logs under our feet"

Please tell me how do I update my assets efficiently? This is NOT creator friendly environment :-/

 

[samplaire]

An example to the policy of versions allowed on DLS:

* A year ago: I prepare an asset, say Fence 1. One version (TRS2004 KUID:xxx:yyy) goes to my site and another version (TS2009; KUID2:xxx:yyy:10) goes to DLS. The KUID2 is 10 because I want to have a field for updates for the TRS version.

A man called John has TS2010 so he downloads the DLS version.

* This year: I update the Fence 1 because it is too green. I upload KUID2:xxx:yyy:1 to my site and KUID2:xxx:yyy:11 (but TS12!) to DLS.

John can't download the DLS version because he is on TS2010. John is smart so he downloads the TRS2004 version from my site. ZONK it has an obsolete KUID beacuse the last year DLS Fence 1 has :10 at the end while the new on has :1! Hmmm, what to do... YES, he deletes the DLS version and the newly installed TRS2004 version should be not obsolete! HA! It should but life teaches us all the time - nobody knows why but CM+ sometimes still remembers it had a higher KUID installed! John can't use my asset. End of the story.

Please stop this stupid policy.

 

[clam1952]

An example to the policy of versions allowed on DLS:

* A year ago: I prepare an asset, say Fence 1. One version (TRS2004 KUID:xxx:yyy) goes to my site and another version (TS2009; KUID2:xxx:yyy:10) goes to DLS. The KUID2 is 10 because I want to have a field for updates for the TRS version.

A man called John has TS2010 so he downloads the DLS version.

* This year: I update the Fence 1 because it is too green. I upload KUID2:xxx:yyy:1 to my site and KUID2:xxx:yyy:11 (but TS12!) to DLS.

John can't download the DLS version because he is on TS2010. John is smart so he downloads the TRS2004 version from my site. ZONK it has an obsolete KUID beacuse the last year DLS Fence 1 has :10 at the end while the new on has :1! Hmmm, what to do... YES, he deletes the DLS version and the newly installed TRS2004 version should be not obsolete! HA! It should but life teaches us all the time - nobody knows why but CM+ sometimes still remembers it had a higher KUID installed! John can't use my asset. End of the story.

Please stop this stupid policy.

Won't like this but the fix is to search for the kuid using windows search in Local AND original folders and delete any copies found, then start TS12 and run a Quick database repair. You should then get confirmation in the listing as it scrolls through that the specific kuid has been removed.

Search in the format kuid xxxxxxx xxxxxx or kuid2 xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx x as in without the :

 

[sowy]

Question assistance

My question would be. It is often a problem for me, but many others as well. The program will install something, anything. For the attachable goods disappear. There is nothing of the window. No other merchandise to choose from in the car, you can not select other articles where the industry is still nothing. What's the problem? What do you, how do repairs. Where? It would be important. This is her problem, and many people use. Very! Can you give me an answer? Thank you. Tibor

 

[sowy]

Please answer: tiberius@airplanet.hu

 

[martinvk]

...

Please stop this stupid policy.

Not sure where the stupid policy is but having the same asset with two different Kuid values is asking for trouble as you so ably explained. If you really want to maintain separate versions for TRS2004 and TS2010, why not use different kuid values? Much less confusion.

In your explanation, you say John has TS2010 but can't download the TS12 version. This is normal. Why should he be able to download an asset for a version of Trainz he doesn't have?