Article: Open Letter to the Trainz Content Creator Community

[mjolnir]

One reason that creators choose to build to older standards might just be that the documentation needed to effectively build to later standards is often inadequate, and sometimes totally lacking. Hopefully, starting on TANE release +day 1, serious effort will be made to making updated complete documentation available for content creators. By "complete documentation", I mean something like the 2006 CCG, plus select tutorials that illustrate key issues.

ns

 

[ZecMurphy]

I only wish that Auran/N3V would have continued to support GMax. It is an easy program to learn and since it is/was created especially for Trainz content, it makes it easy to create and save for the DLS. I know I'm probably just crying in the wind, but I truly believe if you guys would have continued to support GMax there would still be a bunch of content creators still out there.

Sadly, this isn't a choice we can make. GMax is no longer supported by the company that owns it, and creating new exporters for it is simply not something we are able to do these days, since the company that owns GMax does not support it or (at least last I heard about it) permit new gamepacks/exporters for it. The existing GMax exporters lack support for many features necessary in modern content, including a lack of support for normals maps (this can be worked around with the 3DSMax 4/5 exporters; but is an unsupported/unofficial work around...).

If a format change was ever needed for content in future (e.g. a new mesh format), then GMax would have to be left behind.


As to applying textures in 3DSMax, my best suggeston would be to look up some tutorials on youtube. IMO, once you get your head around the base interface, 3DSMax's material editor is much more user friendly; especially to use the fewest number of materials possible

Regards

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

We are working right now on updating the DLS to include the majority of builtin content from TS12 (excluding routes and sessions) and certain dependencies from DLC packs as well. It is a lengthy process to ensure we get it right and it will happen progressively over the next few weeks. We have tested one asset and the owner quickly spotted that we had done the update so there will be alot more of that happening probably beginning next week.

We are fairly confident that the biggest "moan" about T:ANE upon release will be the import from TS12 "not working" (since the built-in assets cannot be imported directly). Just how we prevent people attempting that is going to be the challenge.

 

[Roy3b3]

Thank you Tony for your detailed message. Communication to the masses is vitally important for any industry and in that way, we, the customers develop greater confidence in the product and to the company for their ongoing and continued support. Whenever changes need to be implemented, big or small, we would all appreciate being kept in the loop.
I know you guys have put in a huge amount of work to get TANE into the market-place; and all Trainzers who love this hobby are deeply appreciative.
Cheers,
Roy3b3

 

[CaptEngland]

Hi Tony.

Thanks for the reply, but a couple of issues. Can you clarify what this statement means as I'm confused?

"We are fairly confident that the biggest "moan" about T:ANE upon release will be the import from TS12 "not working" (since the built-in assets cannot be imported directly). Just how we prevent people attempting that is going to be the challenge."

Does this mean built in routes of TS12 SP1 cannot be transferred over?

Second issue is why people do not put "Their" creations on the DLS. Main reason is that if they do, YOU have the right of ownership (possible illegal in some countries/areas of the world) with your DLS T & C. Please once and for all say if this is true or a Trainz Myth?

As for your other points, thanks for the candid response and please, please, please, get someone to make a new up to date content creation guide. Start a new kick-start campaign if needed as this may be why most people moan at you guys for "moving the goal posts" when it comes to content creation.

BTW, Idea for DLC, A modern up to date version of the lovely "L.N.E.R/ BR A4 class loco" please.

Regards.
CaptEngland

 

[shaneturner12]

Hi Tony.

Thanks for the reply, but a couple of issues. Can you clarify what this statement means as I'm confused?

"We are fairly confident that the biggest "moan" about T:ANE upon release will be the import from TS12 "not working" (since the built-in assets cannot be imported directly). Just how we prevent people attempting that is going to be the challenge."

Does this mean built in routes of TS12 SP1 cannot be transferred over?

Second issue is why people do not put "Their" creations on the DLS. Main reason is that if they do, YOU have the right of ownership (possible illegal in some countries/areas of the world) with your DLS T & C. Please once and for all say if this is true or a Trainz Myth?

As for your other points, thanks for the candid response and please, please, please, get someone to make a new up to date content creation guide. Start a new kick-start campaign if needed as this may be why most people moan at you guys for "moving the goal posts" when it comes to content creation.

BTW, Idea for DLC, A modern up to date version of the lovely "L.N.E.R/ BR A4 class loco" please.

Regards.
CaptEngland

Whilst I'm not Tony, I do keep tabs on what N3V post.

To answer your first question, N3V have already stated that they will be putting TS12 builtins onto the Download Station - some may already be on there.

As for the second one, you may want to read the Download Station License Agreement on the Wiki.

Shane

 

[paulhobbs]

Second issue is why people do not put "Their" creations on the DLS. Main reason is that if they do, YOU have the right of ownership (possible illegal in some countries/areas of the world) with your DLS T & C. Please once and for all say if this is true or a Trainz Myth?

It's a myth, but people believe what they want to believe.

Paul

 

[hminky]

Brought Mojave over from TS12, "open for edit" and import the "editing" folder:

Lots of fixable "faulty content".

Looks a whole lot better in T:ANE.

Harold

 

[CaptEngland]

Hi Shane and Paul.

Thanks for clearing that "Myth" up. If any two people should know the truth, it's you two people!

Okay. Could Tony Hilliam please give us a clue on "a" updated content creation guide if this is possible. I did notice some interesting notes in Tony's link to the list of validation changes. Seems a lot of toy's may be being missed out by our very talented content makers out there? If only I was retired and had the time to start making stuff for trainz (looks to me that our best guys are students and retired folk!).

One final note. I noticed that in some of the routes that I have imported into Tane appear to have missing ground textures (including the potteries' line payware). Is this normal at the moment with the latest beta, or is it something my end?

Regards.
CaptEngland.

 

[hminky]

One final note. I noticed that in some of the routes that I have imported into Tane appear to have missing ground textures (including the potteries' line payware). Is this normal at the moment with the latest beta, or is it something my end?

Probably the textures are faulty:

They have .texture files instead of .tga, the built-in's just need to be open for edit and re-committed.

The others need the .tga's added with PEV's Images2tga.

TrainzItalia's Donner looked like this:

Fixing textures got this:

Rebuilding the database will cause the "built-in's" to go "faulty".

T:ANE is light years better than any other version.

Harold

 

[celje]

So here we are. You succeed to resolve the problem with a minority of creators which work below 3.7, now the majority will not be satisfied.
I expect that all built in content and all the rules of all authors, which works in TS12 build61388, will work without error in Tane on retail day 15.May 2015.
Am I too much demanding Mr. Hilliam?

regards
celje

 

[johnwhelan]

Hi Tony.

Second issue is why people do not put "Their" creations on the DLS. Main reason is that if they do, YOU have the right of ownership (possible illegal in some countries/areas of the world) with your DLS T & C. Please once and for all say if this is true or a Trainz Myth?
.
CaptEngland

The issue isn't ownership, one issue is that the assets have to be licensed so that N3V can use them as payware. Many textures are licensed free for freeware but if they are used for payware then a license fee is payable to the copyright holder. In practice N3V have refused to remove such assets after Chris clarified they must be available for payware but the original copyright holder under US law can request that copyright material be removed from the web site and I understand the DLS is US hosted.

Cheerio John

 

[beckster181]

Tony,

I agree that you are making things better in the long term by tightening up validation requirements. However, my concern is that people like myself that have purchased payware content from NV3 are not able to use it as they wish due to this fact, So far in TANE whilst i can import from TS12 most of the items i own only 2 are auto showing in TANE (aero train and PRR modern) so thus says to me they are ment to work in TANE but the other items i have when imported then say that dependencies are missing or obsolete when you use the TANE content manager to try to locate many missing dependencies it states AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD,OBSOLETE but wont download them ???

CAN anyone explain why content that is loading as vers 1.3 will work perfect and stuff loading as version 3.5 pr higher wont when both come from same place like AURAN?

cheers
becky

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

Ok, here's an attempt at clarification about my TS12 import comments:

1. I own TS12 so I'll create a .cdp file of my route + TS12 builtin dependencies and import that into TANE.
2. Result = damn, half the things are broken and show errors (like missing textures).
3. Reason = builtin assets in TS12 do not content exportable textures (they are compressed via the .ja archive process and cannot be copied elsewhere)
4. Instead you need to import your TS12 route WITHOUT TS12 builtin dependencies and then download the missing dependencies from the DLS (once we have updated the DLS over the coming weeks).
5. Note that this applies only to builtin content in TS12 that isn't in TANE builtin. Previously downloaded content can be exported from TS12 via cdp and imported into TANE

This is what I was referring to when I said people will moan - not because you can't do it, but becuase it is hard to explain HOW to do it (and we have no way to prevent anyone trying the WRONG way).

Regarding previously purchased DLC:

This content was created for older versions of Trainz and are stored in .ja format. In order to work in T:ANE we need to update the package formats to be read by the new .tzarc file format used by T:ANE. This process is also being done right now and will take a few weeks to implement fully.

Re: 1.3 works and 3.5 doesn't

This all depends upon the asset and how and where you got it from. As explained above, if it is from a .ja file origin, it will not work in T:ANE. If it includes source textures (e.g. from DLS or other 3rd party source) it will work now.
The exceptions to this is where there are other errors identified by the T:ANE validation that were not picked up by previous validation steps (e.g using .tga files)

 

[nicky9499]

Deleted. Silly question, sorry.

 

[n8phu]

Ok, here's an attempt at clarification about my TS12 import comments:

1. I own TS12 so I'll create a .cdp file of my route + TS12 builtin dependencies and import that into TANE.
2. Result = damn, half the things are broken and show errors (like missing textures).
3. Reason = builtin assets in TS12 do not content exportable textures (they are compressed via the .ja archive process and cannot be copied elsewhere)
4. Instead you need to import your TS12 route WITHOUT TS12 builtin dependencies and then download the missing dependencies from the DLS (once we have updated the DLS over the coming weeks).
5. Note that this applies only to builtin content in TS12 that isn't in TANE builtin. Previously downloaded content can be exported from TS12 via cdp and imported into TANE

This is what I was referring to when I said people will moan - not because you can't do it, but becuase it is hard to explain HOW to do it (and we have no way to prevent anyone trying the WRONG way).

Regarding previously purchased DLC:

This content was created for older versions of Trainz and are stored in .ja format. In order to work in T:ANE we need to update the package formats to be read by the new .tzarc file format used by T:ANE. This process is also being done right now and will take a few weeks to implement fully.

Re: 1.3 works and 3.5 doesn't

This all depends upon the asset and how and where you got it from. As explained above, if it is from a .ja file origin, it will not work in T:ANE. If it includes source textures (e.g. from DLS or other 3rd party source) it will work now.
The exceptions to this is where there are other errors identified by the T:ANE validation that were not picked up by previous validation steps (e.g using .tga files)

Tony, My question is this:

Say I want Mojave (Which is a built-in in my TS12 SP1 hotfix 4 install) in my T:ANE install, will I be able to download it from the DLS later, or am I out of luck?

I thought I saw somewhere else on the forum where someone had exported it from TS12 to TANE on the board here today...

Let me find the thread and I will post it here for you..

EDIT:

Found the thread, but it is at another site.... Can pm you the site and thread if you like, or maybe the user can ID himself and the method he used so others can duplicate it.

 

[celje]

Thank you for your answer.
You said:'' 4. Instead you need to import your TS12 route WITHOUT TS12 builtin dependencies and then download the missing dependencies from the DLS (once we have updated the DLS over the coming weeks).''

I wish to know if all rules (scripts) will be updated too. An second can you tell the exact date when upload will be finished.

regards
celje

 

[CaptEngland]

Thanks to all!

Probably the textures are faulty:

They have .texture files instead of .tga, the built-in's just need to be open for edit and re-committed.

The others need the .tga's added with PEV's Images2tga.

TrainzItalia's Donner looked like this: (SNIP!)

Rebuilding the database will cause the "built-in's" to go "faulty".

T:ANE is light years better than any other version.

Harold

Hi Harold. That's exactly the problem I have. Thanks for the advice on sorting it out!

Thanks also once again to Tony Hilliman on clearing up on how to import old built-in routes! Look forward to days of sorting my vast collection of content and possible fault fixing (Joking here! ). At least we can then start the task of having a improved engine for the future and once people get used to it, vastly improved graphic's will be possible and new train physic's to complain about (Threads will appear like "so and so is wrong, so and so's specification is more historical!").

Give my regards to the rest of the team for sticking with us moaners and Trainz fans and as the coat of arms of the Great Central Railways says, "Forward".

Regards.
CaptEngland

 

[falcon500]

Why do some content creators continue to build for older versions? Personally I'm quite happy to use TRS2006 and TC3. The stuff I make is local Queensland buildings and trees. I upload to Trainzproroutes. Items are made for me not to please others, but if people like them good. I use TS10 and 12 to run the odd train and to backdate assets to work in earlier versions. The idea of downloading a 50mb tree or 10mb ground texture is one reason I don't use later versions much. I've had Trainz since UTC, every version has claimed to be the best Trainz ever. Maybe a New Era will be the best ever but I won't be buying it. Firstly I don't want to buy a new PC when the one I have runs what I want okay. I don't know what the specs are for T:ANE but Auran/N3V has consistently understated system requirement for older versions and are probably doing so again. Anyone falling for N3V's spiel and spin is quite welcome to the headaches.

 

[SailorDan]

The exceptions to this is where there are other errors identified by the T:ANE validation that were not picked up by previous validation steps (e.g using .tga files)

So T:ANE is backwards compatible except for the new validations. That's somewhat of a change from the previous definition of backwards compatible that was provided - if it works in TS12 it will work in T:ANE.