HST and Class 11

If I may ask, if I were to subscribe to Trainz+ and buy, say the HST, would I be able to install it in my retail release of TRS22, or only in my copy of Trainz+?

I was kinda upset when they gutted the FCT subscription and Silver Class. I was considering picking it up to try some DLC, since I'm stilla bit skeptical about using Trainz+ as my main install, but...

EDIT: Considering deleting this post since it's got nothing to do with the thread...

amigacooke said:

Surely the point is that we were told that nothing would be exclusive to those who subscribe, that all DLC would be available for one off purchases.

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That is correct and as far as I know, it has not changed. [and please, no conspiracy theories]

HPL said:

Yes, but in the Store I see "Purchase TRS19" or "Purchase TRS22" in multiple places, not "Purchase a license to use...".

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That is common throughout the software industry. It would be something that, I suspect, the marketing departments would insist on so as to not "confuse the customers".

SRKing783 said:

If I may ask, if I were to subscribe to Trainz+ and buy, say the HST, would I be able to install it in my retail release of TRS22, or only in my copy of Trainz+?

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I also have Trainz+ and I have purchased "outright" (i.e. bought a license to use) a few DLC items despite them being free for all subscription holders and I have been assured that they will continue to work in my retail release of TRS22 if I ever cancel my Trainz+ subscription.

HPL said:

Yes, but in the Store I see "Purchase TRS19" or "Purchase TRS22" in multiple places, not "Purchase a license to use...".

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Don't have to take my word, read the EULA. You can "purchase" any game or software, but you still do not own it.

Mike.

IsambardKingdomBrunel said:

Don't have to take my word, read the EULA. You can "purchase" any game or software, but you still do not own it.

Mike.

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I agree . However my point is that one can simply disregard the EULA and use the item what ever way one wants to. Hence the reference to Russian websites offering payware illegally. You don t have took hard to find these websites.
N3V has no problem in doing this very same thing in regards to disregarding EULA of freeware content creators. In the Config files of freeware, the creators specifically state that their creations are not to be used in any payware . Yet N3V does just that.

Which leads me to an interesting observation about freeware and content used in payware released by N3V. I have asked this question a few times in the past. What is the legal stance taken by N3V in regards to acting against the EULA of freeware content creators? Apart from the moral/ethical situation of using another creator's intellectual property in the course of making money. Denying the general public from using freeware unless payware is purchased certainly raises the prospect of intellectual copyright infringement when the creators EULA clearly states "Not to be used in Payware".

What would happen if one freeware creator decided on legal action regarding this practise?

bolivar said:

What is the legal stance taken by N3V in regards to acting against the EULA of freeware content creators? Apart from the moral/ethical situation of using another creator's intellectual property in the course of making money. Denying the general public from using freeware unless payware is purchased certainly raises the prospect of intellectual copyright infringement when the creators EULA clearly states "Not to be used in Payware".

What would happen if one freeware creator decided on legal action regarding this practise?

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You would need to consult ($$$) a lawyer to get a definitive answer but I would suspect that if an asset creator added a statement such as "not to be used in payware" to an asset that they have willingly uploaded to the DLS, then that statement would be negated by the EULA T&Cs that they have accepted when they uploaded the asset. If they did not want their work to be used in any payware, not even by N3V, then they should not have uploaded it to the DLS - there are some creators who do not upload to the DLS for that very reason.

I would suspect that any legal action would not be worth it, particularly if the complainant loses (which I suspect would be likely) and has costs awarded against them.

pware said:

That is correct and as far as I know, it has not changed. [and please, no conspiracy theories]

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Not much good that being the policy if it doesn't translate into reality.

@amigacooke, yes thanks for clearing that up. The moral / ethical viewpoint still stands in my eyes. But legally I forgot about the T & C's of uploaded assets.

As a lawyer once, allegedly, remarked - the law has little to do with what is moral or ethical but everything to do with what is written.

Yes, it seems N3V can excuse themselves from the very code that gets stringently enforced on everyone else. How handy is that!

Forester1 said:

How handy is that!

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He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Anyone can start up their own gaming software development company and set the terms and conditions of use to their own liking.

@pware. Throwing aside a moral compass by which to do business can be dangerous for the corporation in the long run. Yes profitability is of importance, but a basic respect for your client base is just as important. I hope that N3V understands this.

pware said:

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

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Odd choice, N3V is the piper and we, the customer, pay and call the tune.

Bolivar's initial point is still valid despite the numerous attempts to divert attention from it. He is a TRS22 user that wants to buy DLC packages and N3V will not sell them to him. He wants to know why. Seems like a fair question to me. I suspect that the items he wants are not ready to go on sale yet.

wreeder said:

Bolivar's initial point is still valid despite the numerous attempts to divert attention from it. He is a TRS22 user that wants to buy DLC packages and N3V will not sell them to him. He wants to know why. Seems like a fair question to me. I suspect that the items he wants are not ready to go on sale yet.

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I think the HST is available (to subscribers), but the 11 is marked as a future release.

What I would suggest is that being available to subscribers is just using subscribers as beta testers. One of the last functions I did as a private beta tester was to test DLC packages prior to release. Seems N3V just monetized that function.

Clearly I am missing something here. Perhaps someone could enlighten me?

What I am really having trouble understanding is the attitude I am reading into some posts that N3V is "not allowed" to make special offers to any individuals who are prepared to pay extra for a product i.e. a subscription.

If it brings in extra revenue to N3V (and all the reports so far have stated that it is - they have employed more programmers as a result of the subscription sales) then surely that is a good thing. We all benefit or am I wrong (again)?

If part of the attraction of getting a subscription is early access to DLC "goodies" then surely that serves a purpose, attracting more subscribers. Personally, I am not all that interested in DLC, free or otherwise. I have a few items, some I have purchased despite having free access, but I only occasionally use them (and some not at all). I spend most of my time developing my own routes and sessions but I appreciate that there may be many users who spend most of their time using DLC and DLS routes and not building any of their own. For those users (with "deep pockets" as one poster remarked) the subscription to get the free and "member only" content may be worth it.

Can anyone point to an example of a "subscription only" DLC item that has never (a word that has no upper time limit) made it to the content store for purchase by non-subscription holders? Obviously excluding the current offerings which clearly have not been available long enough to make an honest judgement on the matter. I cannot think of any but, as I previously stated, DLC is not something that really interests me so it is very possible that I simply have not noticed.

But even if there are DLC items that have never been released to anyone other than subscribers, then again, that would be part of the "bait" offered to attract subscribers.

Special subscriber only offers = more subscribers = more revenue = more features delivered faster. I don't have a problem with that. Can someone suggest a workable alternative method for a small company with limited resources?

The special offers for customers who are prepared to pay more is not something that N3V invented.

It's simple, if you don't want to pay a subscription. Then you do not get early access to new DLC, as per us subscribers.

You can whinge and moan as much as you like. Simple solution, put your money where your mouth is.

When the DLC is out of early access and preview. Then you will be able to buy them.
.
I am a UK pensioner and trust me the amount i get is not that brilliant. But there again the Gold subscription at just over £12 a month, is not exactly extortionate.

Mike.

pware said:

Clearly I am missing something here. Perhaps someone could enlighten me?

What I am really having trouble understanding is the attitude I am reading into some posts that N3V is "not allowed" to make special offers to any individuals who are prepared to pay extra for a product i.e. a subscription.

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I think what is being requested is clarification. N3V can do what they want and so can customers.

IsambardKingdomBrunel said:

Simple solution, put your money where your mouth is.

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Equally simple solution, keep your money in your pocket

Ok, but I do have one requirement. Rather than use the term extra revenue, I prefer increased revenue.

Do subscriptions increase revenue?

In some cases, the answer is clearly yes. For example, if offering a low cost subscription for a month entices a new user to try Trainz then that equals a net increase in revenue with the hope that the user continues as a revenue producing customer. This is the trial version model used by many software companies.

If the subscription, brings an inactive former customer back as a paying customer then that increases revenue. This is also a common issue in all types of businesses. I see this happening a lot in this forum.

Now. lets get into more of a grey area. Active users of TRS19, TRS19 Platinum and Tane that purchase DLC from the Trainz Store. These were the users that the Silver subscription would have suited. But it was withdrawn from sale so now these users have to look at the Gold subscription.

If a user spends more than $130 per year on DLC from the Trainz Store than a Gold membership is a no brainer. Try out all the available DLC, buy what you like at a 25% discount and 3X Trainz points. Of course, this benefit decreases over time as the pace of new DLC may not merit keeping the membership for longer than a month. Does it increase revenue? The jury is still out on that one.

So when does a membership purchase not increase revenue.

If a user would have purchased TRS22 with a perpetual license and also bought a first class ticket ($105) than the increased revenue of a Gold membership is just $25 which can be offset by purchases of DLC at full price rather than at a 25% discount. To me this is the position of Bolivar, he just wants to hand over his cash and is stopped form doing so.

Gold members get the following:

[TABLE="class: subtable subtablemain, width: 740"]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] First Class Ticket
Premium download speeds
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield subfeatured, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] Latest Trainz Retail Editions
Access all Retail Editions (from T:ANE onwards)
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield subfeatured, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] Trainz Plus Edition
Enjoy brand new features first (e.g. Surveyor 2.0)
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield subfeatured, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] New Content
Early access to content prior to future retail release
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield subfeatured, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] Exclusive Loyalty Rewards
Cool stuff especially for members (like Scrapbook Prefabs)
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield, align: center"] [/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield subfeatured, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] All DLC Access
Enjoy the full suite of Trainz DLC items, now available in-game
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield subfeatured, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] Preview Pass
Explore new DLC items before retail release
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield subfeatured, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] Trainz Store Discount
25% off all DLC items in the Trainz Store
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield, align: center"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: subtablefield subfeatured, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: subtablefield subtablelefttitle2"] Trainz Rewards Bonus
3x Rewards points in the Trainz Store
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Is denying non-members the ability to buy any DLC they want a hill you want to die on? I hardly think that it is a deal breaker when it comes to whether one buys a membership or not.