A Sad End to an Epic Run for Me with Trainz.

RetroRails12 said:
yup for a business my family had at the time.... If I had to buy that computer today it would cost upwards of $8,000 to $10,000 Dollars... the computer i had was one of the first IBM Computers to come out in the 1990's when internet first came into the picture...
Click to expand...
That's how much money the Apple store wants to charge me for a new Mac computer with a Mac Mini 3. The cost as of 2023 was $8500.00 not including GST.
 
Railroader1970 said:
That's how much money the Apple store wants to charge me for a new Mac computer with a Mac Mini 3. The cost as of 2023 was $8500.00 not including GST.
Click to expand...
that is insane..... your better off buying a Windows machine for 1/3rd of the price and go the Custom Built route..... I have built 4 Custom PC's by my self and they last alot longer that way Just the minimal Maintaince needed to keep the PC going and replacing bad parts when they fail (it does happen from time to time)....
 
RetroRails12 said:
that is insane..... your better off buying a Windows machine for 1/3rd of the price and go the Custom Built route..... I have built 4 Custom PC's by my self and they last alot longer that way Just the minimal Maintaince needed to keep the PC going and replacing bad parts when they fail (it does happen from time to time)....
Click to expand...
If you think that price is insane, a Mac Pro is even higher like at $10,000.00 and up, so I was told. I understand what you mean, however, I used a Mac for decades and have no time to start all over again with a Windows. I thought about getting one in the past, but the idea never materialized into matter. I did a separate thread on this around two or three years ago I believe and the guys on this forum were more than helpful with giving me pointers. I would need that kind of a computer anyway for extra tasks that require the Mac Studio program. Plus I have 2 Terabytes of stored data as well on my current unit I'm still holding onto until then.
 
Last edited:
martinvk said:
Had a quick look and mine expires 2036-05-06 so only 11 years and 5 months to go. Of course that will also put me firmly in old geezer territory.
Click to expand...
So, you guys bought the " Lifetime " version and the small print says mine expires in 2037 and I've been wondering; can they really predict the future or they going to send a " hit man " after me in 2037?

Wild Willy the Wacko
 
WildWillyWacko said:
So, you guys bought the " Lifetime " version and the small print says mine expires in 2037 and I've been wondering; can they really predict the future or they going to send a " hit man " after me in 2037?

Wild Willy the Wacko
Click to expand...
The date is the "end of time" date on computer calendars and is an issue for programmers, tech support, and other tech nerds to worry about when the time comes to fit it just like the year 2000 became an issue before with BIOSs and programs. It was this issue that brought back hundreds if not thousands of retired COBOL and FORTRAN programmers back to work. By 2000, the new young programmers were no longer taught those languages yet there are systems even today that are running them in science research and governments throughout the world.
 
The 2037 "use by date" refers to Unix based systems and its various descendants that are still using 32 bit architecture. Most such systems, including Android and MacOS, have long since migrated to 64 bit architecture which still has a "use by date" but that is now further away than the currently accepted age of the universe.
 
pware said:
The 2037 "use by date" refers to Unix based systems and its various descendants that are still using 32 bit architecture. Most such systems, including Android and MacOS, have long since migrated to 64 bit architecture which still has a "use by date" but that is now further away than the currently accepted age of the universe.
Click to expand...
Like the Year 2000 issue, this will bring plenty of retired programmers back to work to update systems.
 
So if huge amounts of assets become either faulty on the DLS and no longer available for downloads, what are we supposed to use for numbers of assets on our routes? Our imaginations? I mean if Jointed Rail and other similar third party asset sites don't have the assets we're looking for and the assets that we could have used from the DLS are now out of date and are faulty, then what?
 
Railroader1970 said:
So if huge amounts of assets become either faulty on the DLS and no longer available for downloads, what are we supposed to use for numbers of assets on our routes?
Click to expand...

If a future release of Trainz enforces a stricter compliance test on assets (e.g. by raising the minimum asset build number that can be loaded) then this will not effect older versions of Trainz - TANE, TRS19 and TRS22 will continue to load and use those assets. Something like this has already happened with uploads of new assets to the DLS - I think the minimum build number allowed for a new upload is 3.5 but older assets can still be downloaded and used.

When it comes to selecting scenery assets I have always had to make do with what was available. I am not a "rivet counter" so I really do not care if the house I place in a particular spot is not an exact match, or not even a remotely close match, to the actual house that exists there in the real world. It is the same with all the scenery assets that I use. I have always used a relatively small selection of scenery assets multiple times in my layouts. I have them in picklists. I rotate them to present different views to the camera and use foliage and other assets to disguise them in different ways. The only alternative is to spend several lifetimes using Blender to create every single unique scenery asset and never get to build the layout.
 
pware said:
If a future release of Trainz enforces a stricter compliance test on assets (e.g. by raising the minimum asset build number that can be loaded) then this will not effect older versions of Trainz - TANE, TRS19 and TRS22 will continue to load and use those assets. Something like this has already happened with uploads of new assets to the DLS - I think the minimum build number allowed for a new upload is 3.5 but older assets can still be downloaded and used.
Click to expand...
Older assets are hidden from view and are moved to the "Faulty List" by N3V for the CRG to repair, but are made available in case they are dependents for a route, or something else. This is particularly important for such things as interiors and other engine components.

Many of the assets only need to be updated to become error free.
 
AdvancedApproach said:
Cheap and good normally don't go together haha. It's either timeliness or quality.
Click to expand...
Cheap and good? At the same time? In one sentence? Maybe on another planet or in another dimension.

What gets me in any given situation is when people want things done fast and right. In other words, "quantity over quality". Problem is, working fast means misses. Fact. The way I go about it is, "Do you want it done fast or do you want it done right." "How about both" says the boss or customer? Nope. Not possible, that's delusional -- unless you're on your last shift and just two hours before retirement with decades of practice under your belt --- then maybe. My take on that anyway.

- RR70
 
Last edited:
For the record, my journey never ended. The addiction of Trainz kept me on the tracks even after all the crazy issues I faced. From never have knowing this games legacy and obviously never playing it before, this obession turned into an unhealthy 2330.4 hours in only 9 months. I developed my own techniques to combat the hard crashes, learned how to make the game work for me to finally understanding.

I still have my opinions, but quitting like failure was not an option.
 
skittlekicks said:
For the record, my journey never ended. The addiction of Trainz kept me on the tracks even after all the crazy issues I faced. From never have knowing this games legacy and obviously never playing it before, this obession turned into an unhealthy 2330.4 hours in only 9 months. I developed my own techniques to combat the hard crashes, learned how to make the game work for me to finally understanding.

I still have my opinions, but quitting like failure was not an option.
Click to expand...
I've probably put in millions of hours by now. Some problems are still the same while others cease to amaze me. I agree quitting is not an option.

If you are a Plus user, I recommend joining the beta program. This will give you a chance to put in your opinions and have them heard. I've been alpha and beta testing since TRS2009 both under NDA and in the public betas. I can say many of the things I brought to light during the beta-testing have been resolved if not in the initial product release but later on after in an immediate service pack and hot fix.
 
JCitron said:
I've probably put in millions of hours by now. Some problems are still the same while others cease to amaze me. I agree quitting is not an option.

If you are a Plus user, I recommend joining the beta program. This will give you a chance to put in your opinions and have them heard. I've been alpha and beta testing since TRS2009 both under NDA and in the public betas. I can say many of the things I brought to light during the beta-testing have been resolved if not in the initial product release but later on after in an immediate service pack and hot fix.
Click to expand...
I'm not a Plus member. What I own is Trainz 22 PE (Steam). I never liked the subscription model anyway. Beta testing is not my thing, and after spending 25 years in IT, technology raised my bloid pressure too much. I know most swear by it, but I don't see the appeal.

I guess the other turned off about Plus is (based on reading) seems only subs are really honored, the rest of us are ignored no matter how much we've paid for the game or bought assets from N3V. Put another way, an exclusive club who get it all.

There are smaller indie game devs that go out of their way with feedback and suggestions. Just look at Railroader. 5 people built that one. Derail Valley and Railroads Online who all listen to suggestions oemr feedback. No club required.

While I've enjoy Trainz in my short time with it, there are business choices that tainted my decision to support the game in the future.

I won't quit playing for sure, but N3V seems to alienate anyone not in the Plus subscription model. That's my take.
 
skittlekicks said:
I'm not a Plus member. What I own is Trainz 22 PE (Steam). I never liked the subscription model anyway. Beta testing is not my thing, and after spending 25 years in IT, technology raised my bloid pressure too much. I know most swear by it, but I don't see the appeal.

I guess the other turned off about Plus is (based on reading) seems only subs are really honored, the rest of us are ignored no matter how much we've paid for the game or bought assets from N3V. Put another way, an exclusive club who get it all.

There are smaller indie game devs that go out of their way with feedback and suggestions. Just look at Railroader. 5 people built that one. Derail Valley and Railroads Online who all listen to suggestions oemr feedback. No club required.

While I've enjoy Trainz in my short time with it, there are business choices that tainted my decision to support the game in the future.

I won't quit playing for sure, but N3V seems to alienate anyone not in the Plus subscription model. That's my take.
Click to expand...
The company was never this distant. Up until pretty recently, it wasn't uncommon to see some kind of interaction from the CEO Tony Hilliam or the lead developer coming in here to see how the community is doing, in particular after a product release. It was a totally different environment, I agree.

I became a Plus member when it was offered through TRS2019. Back then, there was no exclusive club and beta-testing was a sign-up type thing or they contacted us because we beta tested previously. We did get to put our 2 Schekels in on new product improvements though, but testing was still done through a sign-up process. In my opinion, this was a far more diligent testing method because people were there to beta test and not get the latest program version as happens a lot as we see on Steam. It was after we had gone through the testing cycle multiple times that the product went to public testing and we put in our 2-cents and more before it moved to the final stages. This is how TRS19 became a really stable product compared to T: ANE which seriously was released too soon. TRS22 started this way then they went to the PLUS-members-only beta scheme and that hasn't been good. To be fair, there is some internal testing of new products, but it's not the same as having multiple parties test the product before a public testing which PLUS-members-only really is.

Today, there's a real disconnect from the users. It never used to be this way and I don't know why this changed. I do know that they spend most of their time over at Discord but many of us don't spend time there, and what we perceive as no interaction is only applicable to the forums. While I am a member there and with other servers, I find the interface tiring to read and disorganized even with the sub-channels due to how fast the threads move.

Anyway, I've been involved with technology since at least 1980. I am retired from IT and worked in that aspect since 1988 when I moved from a hardware technician role to MIS where I managed 4 VAXs, two Sun Server clusters, and a bunch of Unix based servers. After that it was Novell and later Windows NT, OS/2, and Linux along with performing senior tech support as a network administrator. As a hardware technician, I repaired everything from video terminals to modems using oscilloscopes, DVMs and automatic test equipment. This was before surface mount became commonplace and components could be easily seen and manipulated on circuit boards.

I some ways, I miss the tech world, but I don't miss the constant stress. In my final position, I supported nearly 720 users with 680 in-house and 37 in the field. I was closing 350 tickets a week and I was told I wasn't keeping up and was going to be terminated due to 50 tickets open in my queue. With ongoing health issues, I used that opportunity to throw in the towel.

So, as far as PLUS being an exclusive club with direct access to the developers, I don't see it that way. Things have just changed internally in the company.

I already have some subscriptions with one being much, much more expensive. This is for Sibelius, an Avid product for music editing. The subscription pays for their support and "free upgrades", which of course is free like the so-called "free DLC and FCT" offered for PLUS.

Unlike many users, I don't see these offers as "free" but as part of the package just like Xfinity offering HBO and some other exclusive channel together as part of a package. In today's world, free doesn't mean the product is free. There's usually something else attached to it. We see this with everything these days including totally free checking accounts where the offers come with an asterisk leading to a 4 point sized footnote about the account being free of fees only if a certain balance is met.
 
Well, don't let the door hit you on the way out. And not everybody is tech savvy like John. I get frustrated when computers hiccup and do things I don't know how to fix. I don't want to pay people like Best Buy Geek Squad to fix Windows errors and such. Which version of Trainz is the most stable? I found 22PE to be ok after the latest patch, which got rid of the flickering white in trees. 19 has a merge problem where Trainz just hangs when you merge routes with a lot of stuff on them and large routes, but 22 doesn't seem to have that problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top