Is N3V Yearly Subcription Killing Off Sales ?

cascaderailroad said:

That was pretty off topic, and an insult …

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That's because you make a silly claim without any evidence, or even a sensible argument to back it up. It will be natural for people to think that you are only trying to start an argument.
"But it all boils down to the plain and simple fact: That you previously could buy a legacy Trainz game for $20 to $70, and it would run forever, and it would never automatically shut down after the 365 days expire".
Well, you can now buy a current version of the Trainz game for $70 and it will never shut down.

Then you suggest that parents are comparing $150 per year plus a $2,000 PC against the one-time price of $70, ignoring the fact that they need a PC whether they go the subscription route or the one-time purchase, and ignoring the free additions that come with the subscription.

If you want a sensible discussion you need to start from an accurate or supportable claim. Otherwise you are just stirring the pot, and unfortunately a lot of people respond to that.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.... Don't burn bridges crossing them.

You are an insult, and saying others are insulting you? I'm shocked a Mod hasn't come here yet and locked this. You throwing out false facts left and right, "99%". Saying this and this.

When really, I think to be kind as possible, someone didn't get what they wanted for Christmas. The "adult" statement you threw in, was your parents probably. $20 bucks is nothing these days. Economy is up, people have money and this year are spending it more than ever making the economy thrive. Before people were hoarding cash, now people have a little extra more this year and are spending. This is backed up by cold hard numbers. Your facts, are not.

Stop arguing, life sucks. Sometimes you don't get your way. Sometimes you disagree. Life is to short to argue about little things like this. Get a job, save some $20s, and buy Trainz and make your dreams.

Don't go on manic like episode post on public forums.

$15 to try a game is nothing

$15 a month + 5 pieces of DLC is not shabby.

$70, yes.. I will say is a little much. $60 sweet spot. But, as earlier, life ain't rainbows. Sometimes you can't get what you want.

Every post is dead set lashing out, and on attacking me ... when I simply pose the logical question: Is N3V Yearly Subcription Killing Off Sales ?

As it is expensive, as 99% of gamers that I would ask, whether they consider the N3V is making a bad marketing choice by making a $100 to $150 subscription based Trainz product

Honestly ... You all take horrid offence to anyone questioning a subject ... and immediately lash out in defense of N3V, like you are defending your own mother, and you downright attack, anyone with a different viewpoint, than yours, and bash the person posing the logical question ... It is like I have verbally attacked your own mother ... WTF

How dare you question the great and all powerful OZ !

cascaderailroad said:

Every post is dead set lashing out, and on attacking me ... when I simply pose the logical question: Is N3V Yearly Subcription Killing Off Sales ?

As it is expensive, as 99% of gamers that I would ask, whether they consider the N3V is making a bad marketing choice by making a $100 to $150 subscription based Trainz product

Honestly ... You all take horrid offence to anyone questioning a subject ... and immediately lash out in defense of N3V, like you are defending your own mother, and you downright attack, anyone with a different viewpoint, than yours, and bash the person posing the logical question ... It is like I have verbally attacked your own mother ... WTF

How dare you question the great and all powerful OZ !

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You're taking it personally. Think about it logically this is an option in addition to the options that are there already. You may still buy TS19 for $70 and it will continue to run ad infinitum. You may spend additional money on payware. You may try TS19 for a month or two at $15 a month? If you don't like it fine you've only spent $15 or $30. Giving people a taster means one or two might be tempted to buy it. TANE is still available at a lower price.

There are assets that do not need a super computer to run on. It gives people a taste, they can always buy a higher end machine later on.

Cheerio John

Daring to question the great and powerful OZ? Even a cursory scan of the many threads in the various forums will show that it is done with great regularity.

But when it is asserted that 99% of any group agrees with something, people also have the right to question that. It would probably be hard to get 99% to agree on the color of the sky. What was the sample size, what were their demographics?

As has been mention many times, many ways, it is all about choice. Try it for $15 (with all the extras included) or buy it for $70. Many have stated here what their choice was, including why they made it. For me, I've bought it because I already have a lifetime FCT and rarely download so those are not incentives for me. YMMV

SailorDan said:

"But it all boils down to the plain and simple fact: That you previously could buy a legacy Trainz game for $20 to $70, and it would run forever, and it would never automatically shut down after the 365 days expire".
Well, you can now buy a current version of the Trainz game for $70 and it will never shut down.

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Incorrect. The perpetually-licensed (one-time purchased, non-subscription) version of TRS19 is fully DRMed, so it WILL SHUT OFF at some point when it can no longer activate. The question is, when and why - it could be N3V goes out of business, it could be N3V decides to stop supporting it, whatever. Even the multi-billion-dollar software companies don't keep their activation servers running forever (or, in some cases, not even for very long after ending support for a product.) But the DRM server being available is as much as basic requirement for TRS19 to run as a compatible CPU. Again, this applies to the perpetual-license version as well as the subscription one.

cascaderailroad said:

Is N3V Yearly Subcription Killing Off Sales ?

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How would anyone on here know? If it was, you can bet N3V would have changed their policy, at this time they haven't.

You may as well be asking How long is a length?

Tony_Hilliam said:

Or, say a kid says "hey this game costs $70 to buy, but I can get it for a month for $15 and get an extra $300 of DLC items to enjoy, and I can buy stuf from the store using my 25% discount code, and I get a free FCT, and first look at new DLC items, and each quarter I get to play with a ll the new stuff they're working on, and I can cancel at any time, so for $15 I may as well enjoy the game over the scholl holidays."

(This kid likes long sentences).

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I guess I selected the wrong option because I don't care a hill of beans about all the extra content because I just play Trainz on my own route, using my own self-made locomotives and buildings, etc., so I suppose I should have just paid the $70 outright but now I'm hooked for a year.

(Dave Snow likes long sentences, too.)

If I'm not mistaken you can opt out at anytime.

RRSignal said:

... - it could be N3V goes out of business, it could be N3V decides to stop supporting it, whatever. ....

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For the first case, one can hope that the last thing they do before turning off the lights would be to release the activation codes for those that need them, based on what they have registered. Unless someone else buys their IP and activation server. For the second case, not much that can be done about some vague future problem. Either way, live in the now and enjoy Trainz now.

Kilrbe3 said:

...When really, I think to be kind as possible, someone didn't get what they wanted for Christmas. The "adult" statement you threw in, was your parents probably...

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...and some folks would be better off if they got to know the community a little better...

As much vitriol is hurled at our resident "Mr. Grinch ," he does make some good points, while others are all a-bluster. I just read someone's complaint on the Facebook announcement the other day; they were complaining about the high cost of subscribing. They did not even notice that there was a flat-rate option. They did not seem to alter their opinion even though their assumptions were corrected. This is not a standard way of doing business, to say the least, and N3V is committed to pushing the subscription option (especially the Gold level) over the flat-rate option--I don't blame them.

It is also ridiculous to think that children are not included in the intended marketplace. All one needs to do is look around the community: there is a surprisingly large number of children here; Mr. cascaderailroad is certainly NOT one of them! I would hope that children would be encouraged to join the perpetuity of the train hobby for the sake of our community, and our world.

As for me, I am one who IS a gold member, even though I swore I would never purchase on a subscription basis. For me, the FCT and content options are just too good to pass up...I also feel I have the means and desire to help N3V remain viable, and consider this a worthwhile investment in a company I have grown to appreciate.

So different strokes for different folks, as they say. But N3V would do well to be watching the way they are marketing the new product. Point well taken, at least by me, if not by anyone else...

Also as Windows versions continue to evolve many programs and hardware I purchased just stopped working or could not be installed. So my choice was to either quit using that program/ hardware or go to the distributor and buy a version/ or hardware that would work.

well, it only killed the subscription sale to me; i bought the full version download. as i did for Adobe products, where i bought the last non-sub versions. i really don't do subs in any case... like, for a high-end typography manager at 90$ a year? maybe if i could do a tax-write off, but i'm not in graphics anymore. trainz business model has always seemed 'quick buck salez'. wasn't the original version of trainz just a mash-up to get cash for the real-time sci-fi role-play-strategy game project that didn't work out?

leo655annst said:

Also as Windows versions continue to evolve many programs and hardware I purchased just stopped working or could not be installed. So my choice was to either quit using that program/ hardware or go to the distributor and buy a version/ or hardware that would work.

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This is just hardware and IT 101 though. Thing's don't stay the same, tech is constantly improving, sometimes so fast it even trips over itself. This is always to be expected in software. You should never count on the Dev/Publisher to support X software til you are dead. It's just not possible. Especially when sometimes its not because they don't want too, but can't due to the OS is no longer supported either by its maker. It's not to chase a dollar, its because code changes. You can't always bandaid fix things. You can polish a turd, but end of the night its still a turd.

RRSignal said:

Incorrect. The perpetually-licensed (one-time purchased, non-subscription) version of TRS19 is fully DRMed, so it WILL SHUT OFF at some point when it can no longer activate. The question is, when and why - it could be N3V goes out of business, it could be N3V decides to stop supporting it, whatever. Even the multi-billion-dollar software companies don't keep their activation servers running forever (or, in some cases, not even for very long after ending support for a product.) But the DRM server being available is as much as basic requirement for TRS19 to run as a compatible CPU. Again, this applies to the perpetual-license version as well as the subscription one.

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This is 2004 back with the whole Steam worry that Valve may die and all games go bye bye. There is plans in place for this in almost all DRM like services. Steam, Origin, etc. They push a global update that would give you the keys for all your games onto your system. If the lights went out, the last switch would be to push the update out to all millions of users.

Companies can't hide anymore. Not to defend N3V or steam, but the lights wont just go out and you left in dark. I'd place Vegas bets that these devs have a plan in place if whatever reason it goes under. If not, take em to court.

A server running DRM checks is nothing big or breaking the bank, this is 2018, and sometimes I think a lot of folks still think this is early-mid 2000s way people post and their thoughts on IT in this forum. Times change folks.

mikemike said:

... trainz business model has always seemed 'quick buck salez'. wasn't the original version of trainz just a mash-up to get cash for the real-time sci-fi role-play-strategy game project that didn't work out?

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Name me a commercial product that is not a "quick buck salez" product.

A few years back I read the history of Auran (the original creator of Trainz) and how "Fury" (the "real-time sci-fi role-play-strategy game project that didn't work out") destroyed the company - it was posted on an academic publications site by the original founder of the company. The story is quite different from how you have portrayed Trainz as being a "mash up" to get cash for "Fury". It was, as is often the case with small niche software companies, an attempt to diversify their product base to gain more financial security. But, if my memory of the account is correct (age and Christmas "spirit" have taken their toll here) they listened to the wrong advice and made poor decisions - a story that is very common in the gaming development world where many (most?) startups fail before they even release a product to the market.

No doubt .. I myself will eventually invest in TS19, and possibly the $150 version (as well as buying TS20, and all future Trainz versions) as I fully support N3V, as they are the life blood of my hobby, and life ... I do want N3V to succeed (especially as I have four more 1 year FCT's stockpiled, ready for activation)

Good to hear that Cascade. We all tend to get very passionate about our hobbies and sometimes we get carried away. I will (if the great pan-galactic spaghetti monster is willing) also buy future Trainz releases, although 2020 might be a bit soon for the next version.

The only subscription service I have on my system is my AV software. As for MS Office, I have Office 2013 on my desktop and Libra Office on my laptop, and what little use I make of them now that I am retired does not justify paying $100 per year for Office 365. Likewise, I abandoned Adobe software when they went subscription only and I do very well just using GIMP. But each to their own.

And ... I am ... DONE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY0gda12pXg

Everyone be careful out there !

pware said:

Good to hear that Cascade. We all tend to get very passionate about our hobbies and sometimes we get carried away. I will (if the great pan-galactic spaghetti monster is willing) also buy future Trainz releases, although 2020 might be a bit soon for the next version.

The only subscription service I have on my system is my AV software. As for MS Office, I have Office 2013 on my desktop and Libra Office on my laptop, and what little use I make of them now that I am retired does not justify paying $100 per year for Office 365. Likewise, I abandoned Adobe software when they went subscription only and I do very well just using GIMP. But each to their own.

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Since I stopped working I too have given up on the bigger subscriptions. Yes I used to subscribe annually to the Microsoft TechNet Subscription service for well over a decade. That cost me $350 annually. It had some good stuff in there and the on-disk knowledge base was awesome as was the multitude of full software versions, but then they got rid of that. I too run Office 2013 with no plans to go online with that and that include older Visio and Project as well. Instead of GIMP I find Paint.net a bit easier with all the same features. Adobe subscription breaks stuff often as my brother found out and he too ditched them.

So I pay the monthly subscription which is actually $12.99 because I have the FCT discount thrown in. It's worth it and manageable. At $12.99 it's cheaper than a dozen donuts now where I live and TRS19 is less fattening!

cascaderailroad said:

And ... I am ... DONE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY0gda12pXg

Everyone be careful out there !

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I know the guys that took that video among others. They run Storm-Chasing videos.net now. I met Tony Laubach and Ben MacMillan while in Concordia KS during a storm chase we were all hanging out at a Braums eating burgers.