3D PBR textures performing sluggish?

Hey everyone, I just noticed this. My game drops from 60 to 30fps when switching to the 3D mode of the PBR textures (like the ground and track textures etc.) When I set the Shader quality from Ultra to Normal, the textures aren't 3D anymore, but now, the game is performing again at 60fps. Is it that the PBR textures are so performance intensive or am I missing something?
 
I'll have to check for that specifically, but I have noticed that when working with them in Surveyor the cursor is slower reacting so this might be another symptom of the same issue.
 
Yes, the 3D PBR textures do have an impact but for me it is not significant. I've found the real frame rate killer is shadows. The highest setting it has a noticeable impact.
 
Yes - our testing during the original closed beta release period empirically showed that shadows and draw distance settings remain the greatest frame-rate killers, but setting Post Processing to 'Ultra' is also fairly costly.
A decent graphics card - say a GTX 1070 or better - makes this all somewhat a non-issue.
 
Is it that the PBR textures are so performance intensive or am I missing something?

Yes, parallax texturing is incredibly expensive on the GPU. If you have a up-to-date gaming GPU, it should handle it fine, but anything low-to-mid-range is going to struggle.

To be clear, "PBR" and "parallax" are not the same thing. The TRS19 textures support both. PBR is always enabled regardless of graphical settings, whereas parallax is only enabled with "ultra" quality due to the performance hit.

chris
 
Sounds about right then. A GTX980 or a GTX1060 will give usable performance with parallax enabled and most other settings on High, but certainly won't stay capped at peak frame rate. You'd be looking at maybe a GTX1080* or even a RTX2080 for peak performance with everything turned up, and even then you're going to be somewhat at the mercy of the content that you opt to use.

chris

*: I use a GTX980 personally and haven't tested on each card mentioned here. I'm giving a broad approximation based on my experience and published specs.
 
Yes, parallax texturing is incredibly expensive on the GPU. If you have a up-to-date gaming GPU, it should handle it fine, but anything low-to-mid-range is going to struggle.

To be clear, "PBR" and "parallax" are not the same thing. The TRS19 textures support both. PBR is always enabled regardless of graphical settings, whereas parallax is only enabled with "ultra" quality due to the performance hit.

chris

The problem I have with the parallax is that the texture changes the height of the baseboard in a way that if it is used close to track or roads it creates a gap between the track and the baseboard. To avoid this issue I run the shader quality at "standard", not "ultra", not because of the GPU load but because of this height changing issue of the textures.

My question then is by running the shader setting at "standard" instead of "ultra" what other features am I missing" or does this setting only effect parallax?
 
The problem I have with the parallax is that the texture changes the height of the baseboard in a way that if it is used close to track or roads it creates a gap between the track and the baseboard. To avoid this issue I run the shader quality at "standard", not "ultra", not because of the GPU load but because of this height changing issue of the textures.

My question then is by running the shader setting at "standard" instead of "ultra" what other features am I missing" or does this setting only effect parallax?

There's the opposite effect too with the texture pushing the baseboard height over the tracks and roads and it means if a texture was updated to PBR, then the problems abound all over, which I discovered the hard way and I ended up replacing the textures with something else.

The other issue is that gel-look. That jellyfish goo that surrounds the texture is annoying and reminds me of looking at a tidal pool or into a pond with plants and critters underneath. I suppose if th at gel was 100% invisible, it wouldn't be so bad and I could deal with the height issues, but that gel-thing is really disturbing because it's noticeable.
 
There's the opposite effect too with the texture pushing the baseboard height over the tracks and roads and it means if a texture was updated to PBR, then the problems abound all over, which I discovered the hard way and I ended up replacing the textures with something else.

The other issue is that gel-look. That jellyfish goo that surrounds the texture is annoying and reminds me of looking at a tidal pool or into a pond with plants and critters underneath. I suppose if th at gel was 100% invisible, it wouldn't be so bad and I could deal with the height issues, but that gel-thing is really disturbing because it's noticeable.

I forgot to mention the problem of the texture covering the track and roads also. The problem also becomes apparent when PBR texture abuts non PBR texture. I get a strange appearance at the boundary. I am about to just use the standard setting for the shader for now to eliminate these problems even though in some cases the PBR textures look quite nice in some instances.

The big question of course is this an issue that can be ultimately solved or is it the way things will remain. I guess if you use all PBR materials you may avoid the issue. but in some of the older routes this will require a lot of swapping out a lot of older assets and replacing them with PBR ones.
 
You've identified the shortcomings. The solutions that mitigate these are as follows:
- don't mix old and new textures (this avoids the "gel look" where they meet)
- since the parallax textures have an apparent height (which depends on the texture), raise the track vertices by ~0.12
- if you have bulk replaced one texture with a new one, you may need to "tidy up" where there may have been old merged textures that you didn't see to replace.
(This sorts out "hard edges" or sections of track or sleepers that appear to be missing altogether)


If you are concerned about framerates your choices are:
- turn off Ultra shaders
- for a further small gain, replace all PBR textures (more about texture size than anything else)
- for a much larger fps gain, reduce Shadow level, draw distance, and tree/scenery sliders.
 
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You've identified the shortcomings. The solutions that mitigate these are as follows:
- don't mix old and new textures (this avoids the "gel look" where they meet)
- since the parallax textures have an apparent height (which depends on the texture), raise the track vertices by ~0.12
- if you have bulk replaced one texture with a new one, you may need to "tidy up" where there may have been old merged textures that you didn't see to replace.
(This sorts out "hard edges" or sections of track or sleepers that appear to be missing altogether)


If you are concerned about framerates your choices are:
- turn off Ultra shaders
- for a further small gain, replace all PBR textures (more about texture size than anything else)
- for a much larger fps gain, reduce Shadow level, draw distance, and tree/scenery sliders.

Wait wait wait a minute here.

"- since the parallax textures have an apparent height (which depends on the texture), raise the track vertices by ~0.12"

Wait , so.. that wasn't a bug? Half the ballast gets hidden just laying default track onto empty baseboards now. When laying a dirt/base PBR texture then put track ontop, its already almost 0 ballast showing due to PBR of dirt/ballast texture + when laying any track its already so much ballast 'under' the baseboard.


 
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