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Thread: Open Letter to the Trainz Community

  1. #31

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    Every other game with a subscription service like this lets you keep the content you've accumulated under the Membership if you decide to cancel. Taking away content that people use for not wanting to pay a fee is ridiculous no matter what way you slice it.

    What that says to me is that you paid for access to the content, not for the ownership of the content. Something something an MMORPG killed off the previous company...

  2. #32
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    Trainz certainly isn't an MMORPG. It would be a lot of fun if it were though.
    Barret
    Ohio, USA
    Model Railroader and Sad Trainz Railroader

  3. #33
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    From the Xbox Game Pass FAQ:

    How long do I have access to games within the Xbox Game Pass catalog?

    Xbox Game Pass members enjoy unlimited access to over 100 great games within Xbox Game Pass catalog, until either the subscription is canceled/expires, or a game leaves the Game Pass catalog.

    From Playstation-Plus website:

    Monthly Games - Get two hand-picked PS4 games each month to download and play as long as you are a member
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by bblake8480 View Post
    Trainz certainly isn't an MMORPG. It would be a lot of fun if it were though.
    You certainly missed the point of my joke though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    Quotes removed...
    Hence why i said games with subscription services, not consoles. PlayStation Plus and XBox Game Pass are their own beasts entirely. We're talking about DLC here, not full games.

  5. #35
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    Think the point is no one is making us sign up for a subscription, those of us that don't can just carry on as normal.
    Malc


  6. #36
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    Thanks for that Malc. It is puzzling why a new optional service has stirred up so much anger. Nothing has changed at all for people who visit store.trainzportal.com and not MyTrainz > My Memberships.

    Chris - Xbox and PS4 are "platforms". iTunes is a "platform". In a similar way, Trainz is also a platform.

    With all the DLC items available, it costs thousands to buy it all. The new membership options allow people to access all that content much cheaper than outright purchase.

    Based upon the first 24 hours of sales, more people prefer the membership option than the traditional option, and I think as people understand the concept more, more people will see the extra value provided.

    That said, we are happy with whichever option people choose. It's just a shame that people aren't happy even though they have a choice.
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris2001trainz2010 View Post
    Hence why i said games with subscription services, not consoles. PlayStation Plus and XBox Game Pass are their own beasts entirely. We're talking about DLC here, not full games.
    I wasn't talking about Plus/Game Pass at all. Those aren't comparable to this situation and it makes total sense that when those end, you lose access to the games from it. In fact, if we were to compare TRS19 Gold to either of those, then TRS19 Gold looks even worse since you get far more content for a lower price than what TRS19 Gold is offering.

    If I buy Forza (or Call of Duty or any number of games that offer subscription DLC on top of the game), then pay for the subscription, that subscription gives me all the DLC that comes out during that subscription term. When that term is up and I don't buy a new pass, I still own all the DLC I received during that subscription. It doesn't go away. I can still play Forza. I can still play all the car packs I got during that year. I can still play the expansion packs indefinitely. I never lose access to them. That's the difference and that's my point.
    Barret
    Ohio, USA
    Model Railroader and Sad Trainz Railroader

  8. #38
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    Point taken. Thanks for clarifying Barret.

    Our model is obviously more like Xbox than Forza. Our goal here is to provide choice and value for customers.

    We have some customers who have spent hundreds of dollars a year on DLC. Now for $15 a month you can get the same value those people got for a much lower price.

    If you don't see the value in the offerring, then that's not a problem either. Buy the game, job done.
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

  9. #39

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    Trainz is not a platform. PC is a platform, XBox is a platform, PlayStation 4 is a platform. Trainz is a program.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris2001trainz2010 View Post
    Trainz is not a platform. PC is a platform, XBox is a platform, PlayStation 4 is a platform. Trainz is a program.
    You are correct. Windows is a set of software programs (+drivers, utilities - more terminology) that provides a platform for other software/apps. Likewise for XBox and Playstation although those platforms also come with hardware. Without those software and apps of what use are those platforms?

    MS Word is a program that provides a platform for users to create, edit and view documents. Without those documents, of what use is Word?

    Trainz is a program that provides a platform (not a pun) for users to create, edit and view simulated railroad "environments" (for want of a better term). Without those "environments" of what use is Trainz?

    Its all terminology and usage.
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 105766

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    Fast forward many years and with the creation of the consumer-based cloud services, and we now have this with personal programs such as games, photo-editing applications and so on at a much more reasonable price than what companies were/are charged.
    No, they are not more reasonable prices. With the old "buy-once" model, you bought software once, owned the copy, and could use it indefinitely. With the subscription/SaaS model, you pay far more over just a year or two than if you bought it outright. Using Microsoft Office 2016 as an example, you can buy it outright for $229, and that's if you pay the inflated prices direct from Microsoft. Or, you can subscribe for $8.25 a month for the same software through Office 365. So, in a little over two years, you'll pay more in subscription fees than if you bought outright. Compare Adobe Acrobat Pro and you'll find a similar situation.

    But, at least with the subscription model, you will get continuous updates. That often break more than they fix, and that you cannot opt-out of they way you usually can with most perpetual-licensed software.
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  12. #42
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    Which comes down to choice. Some people prefer a subscription model because it offers them advantages/features they need or want. Other prefer a buy-once model for the same reasons.

    I own MS Office 2013 outright (within the terms of the license agreement). I have not updated to Office 2016 and see no advantage in buying a subscription to Office 365. I use Excel about once a day and Word once or twice a week - to me it makes no economic or practical sense to upgrade or subscribe.

    TANE I run almost every day and I will update to TS19. I have downloaded very little (comparatively) from the DLC and what I have I rarely use. I already have a "lifetime" FCT. So the subscription models really offer me no advantages, I will be buying the stand-alone program. I will still get SPs and HFs when they are released. I will miss out on the "new feature" releases but in 2-3 years I will probably buy the new program again and will still be financially better off.

    Other people will reach their own decisions based on their own circumstances.

    From what Tony has said, the Gold subscription sales are exceeding their expectations so that is obviously a popular option despite the howls of outrage from some vocal sections of the community. I really do not see why those complainers are protesting so loudly about purchase options not previously available being offered to customers.

    If they, the complainers, do not like the new options then they do not have to use them. They can use the same purchase option they have always used for all previous versions of Trainz - what is the problem?
    Last edited by pware; August 23rd, 2018 at 07:03 PM.
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 105766

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRSignal View Post
    No, they are not more reasonable prices. With the old "buy-once" model, you bought software once, owned the copy, and could use it indefinitely. With the subscription/SaaS model, you pay far more over just a year or two than if you bought it outright. Using Microsoft Office 2016 as an example, you can buy it outright for $229, and that's if you pay the inflated prices direct from Microsoft. Or, you can subscribe for $8.25 a month for the same software through Office 365. So, in a little over two years, you'll pay more in subscription fees than if you bought outright. Compare Adobe Acrobat Pro and you'll find a similar situation.

    But, at least with the subscription model, you will get continuous updates. That often break more than they fix, and that you cannot opt-out of they way you usually can with most perpetual-licensed software.
    The subscriptions always cost more as you've pointed out over time, but that's like anything. Heck we're pretty much locked into subscribing to a cable provider to watch the basic TV news today, and that's not inexpensive either. I too still use Office 2013 which I got through the old Tech-Net subscription, and have no reason or intention of upgrading to Office 365 or Office 2016.

    I'm well aware of the perpetual updates and things getting broken. Adobe has already broken things in their CS suite, which my brother found out. He canceled his subscription sometime ago due to this and other things including the cost and no longer deals with them. More recent updates have broken things further as his customers are finding out th hard way with their CS Suite. They can no longer share files with non-CS users, and other odd data corruption is occurring to the data, which never happened before.

    It's as though the computer industry has gone full circle from a mainframe in a room with terminals to run the programs to a much bigger, but same model with users located around the world instead. Nothing different; just another name.
    Last edited by JCitron; August 23rd, 2018 at 07:14 PM.
    John
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  14. #44
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    The biggest problem I see with the subscription option is for people who like to spend most of their time in Surveyor
    If I move my route from Tane which I have been working on over the years including previous releases back to TRS4 upgrading as I go

    Then what happens to that route if I cancel my subscription and are unable to renew it
    All the work I have done in TS19 will be lost and I suspect it can't be saved and put back into TANE

    This is why I think I will wait and see what happens and eventually I may get the boxed version
    At least i know if can no longer afford the net or nv3 folds I still have pleanty of content to keep me amused

    I rarely purchase content and as far as builtin routes go their the first thing I disable/delete when I get a new game as I have no interest in them.
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  15. #45
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    From the Xbox Game Pass FAQ:


    How long do I have access to games within the Xbox Game Pass catalog?

    Xbox Game Pass members enjoy unlimited access to over 100 great games within Xbox Game Pass catalog, until either the subscription is canceled/expires, or a game leaves the Game Pass catalog.



    From Playstation-Plus website:


    Monthly Games - Get two hand-picked PS4 games each month to download and play as long as you are a member



    yes, but along with this subscription, you get discounts on items. Once your subscriptions end, you still can play with what you have purchased, just not the "free" stuff

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