Why do you talk about Steam as if it will be used by Trainz? In the discussions of the Purple path, Tony specifically mentioned the Trainz: World of Rail would be distributed exclusively on Steam, targeting all the gamers who never heard of Trainz, to get them interested. There is no mention of Steam in regard to Trainz: A New Era, the mainline version
why we talking about TS 14 when TS12 still has major problems
- Thread starter seniorchief
- Start date
Lol, that's the nature of DRM and cloud-based services.
I'd drop Trainz like a hot potato if it used Steam or any similar online method.
Well so be it, I'm getting tired of these slow framrates and constantly having to save in case it crashes. Besides, at least I'm getting my money's worth. This was only $1400 and I didn't buy it so I'm not worried at all.
Hi Everybody
Dinorius_Redundicus, I can only speak for British users but certainly throughout the UK cheap unlimited broadband usage is widely available with most Internet users having such accounts it would seem as you very rarely hear anyone speak of download limits these days. There is plenty of competition between the wired broadband providers which suppresses prices and has brought the above situation about. Virgin media now provide broadband speeds of up to 100 MB per second with sky, BT and talk talk not far behind.
The above companies are now facing competition from the mobile phone network providers who are offering various data packages through your mobile phone. I have just signed up to one with network three which virtually gives unlimited phone call time, texts and data usage for £26 per month British currency. It also allows “tethering” which as you probably know allows the phone to be used as a mobile router which allows other devices such our smart TVs to connect online through the phone. These systems are still in their infancy but the broadband speed is around 15 MB per second during the day but can drop to 5 MB per second during peak times in the evening. However, with 4G connection coming to North Somerset in the New Year I am hoping the speeds will increase sufficiently to allow me to give virgin the big heave.
Martinvk. I have every respect for those who may not wish to have automatic updating provided by steam or any other company. However, train simulator (railworks) have adopted the path of automatic updating and as trainz main competitor it seems to have done them no harm whatsoever over the past four major updates. You still can obtain train simulator on disc if you do not wish to deal with steam as you can with trainz. That said, no one can doubt that steam has been a huge commercial success in the past few years and that it would seem would be down to their ever-growing customer base accepting their trading practices.
Martinvk, I am afraid I have not read too much regarding the purple path, trainz world of rail or a new era of the mainline as I am afraid I would rather wait and see what actually emerges next year. However, as I have stated in my postings, one thing is a fact at this point in time, and that is the sales of PCs are dropping like a stone. Along with the foregoing the cost of gaming machines is now well beyond the reach of many and therefore alternatives will have to be found for games such as trainz and rail simulator. Therefore steam has obviously recognised the foregoing position with the distribution of their beta version set-top boxes for connection to smart TVs. If successful, this could give niche market gaming such as simulation with the need for content creation from its users a new and cheaper alternative to high cost PC provision into the future.
RRSignal, obviously if all versions of trainz where to go online then there would be many like yourself who would have to make their choice regarding future use. However, N3V like all commercial operations have to make their decisions based on future customer requirements and profitability within that. Unfortunately in many of those decisions there is no room for past loyalties or emotions. It is just hard commercial prediction and judgement on which the future of all companies depend. The foregoing is the basis of every free enterprise economy which brings forward the best and perhaps the worst of the way we live.
Bill
Dinorius_Redundicus, I can only speak for British users but certainly throughout the UK cheap unlimited broadband usage is widely available with most Internet users having such accounts it would seem as you very rarely hear anyone speak of download limits these days. There is plenty of competition between the wired broadband providers which suppresses prices and has brought the above situation about. Virgin media now provide broadband speeds of up to 100 MB per second with sky, BT and talk talk not far behind.
The above companies are now facing competition from the mobile phone network providers who are offering various data packages through your mobile phone. I have just signed up to one with network three which virtually gives unlimited phone call time, texts and data usage for £26 per month British currency. It also allows “tethering” which as you probably know allows the phone to be used as a mobile router which allows other devices such our smart TVs to connect online through the phone. These systems are still in their infancy but the broadband speed is around 15 MB per second during the day but can drop to 5 MB per second during peak times in the evening. However, with 4G connection coming to North Somerset in the New Year I am hoping the speeds will increase sufficiently to allow me to give virgin the big heave.
Martinvk. I have every respect for those who may not wish to have automatic updating provided by steam or any other company. However, train simulator (railworks) have adopted the path of automatic updating and as trainz main competitor it seems to have done them no harm whatsoever over the past four major updates. You still can obtain train simulator on disc if you do not wish to deal with steam as you can with trainz. That said, no one can doubt that steam has been a huge commercial success in the past few years and that it would seem would be down to their ever-growing customer base accepting their trading practices.
Martinvk, I am afraid I have not read too much regarding the purple path, trainz world of rail or a new era of the mainline as I am afraid I would rather wait and see what actually emerges next year. However, as I have stated in my postings, one thing is a fact at this point in time, and that is the sales of PCs are dropping like a stone. Along with the foregoing the cost of gaming machines is now well beyond the reach of many and therefore alternatives will have to be found for games such as trainz and rail simulator. Therefore steam has obviously recognised the foregoing position with the distribution of their beta version set-top boxes for connection to smart TVs. If successful, this could give niche market gaming such as simulation with the need for content creation from its users a new and cheaper alternative to high cost PC provision into the future.
RRSignal, obviously if all versions of trainz where to go online then there would be many like yourself who would have to make their choice regarding future use. However, N3V like all commercial operations have to make their decisions based on future customer requirements and profitability within that. Unfortunately in many of those decisions there is no room for past loyalties or emotions. It is just hard commercial prediction and judgement on which the future of all companies depend. The foregoing is the basis of every free enterprise economy which brings forward the best and perhaps the worst of the way we live.
Bill
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captainkman
You are reading this.
I bought Train Simulator 2013 on disc in a store - but I sTILL had to create a Steam account to install the game and play it.
Kieran.
JackClare1995
Member
so did I, Captainkman. Spent about 2 hours installing steam and then about 20 minutes installing Edit: Train Simulator 13. I thought it was ridiculous at the time but then I found Cities in Motion for about 60% off (which I wouldn't have found anywhere else) and bought it, so Steam does have it's positives
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mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
I won't be buying that one then!
And for those who don't already know, don't get confused. Train Simulator 2013 is not an N3V (previosly known as Auran) product. It's made by a rival company.
At least N3V give people the freedom to choose if they want to use Steam or not though, buying the CD/DVD version at a Shop should just install straight of the Disc onto the Computer without needing internet or Steam just to play it.
N3V have it so it'll just install to the computer like any other game and you don't need internet or Steam just to play it.
Cheers.
N3V have it so it'll just install to the computer like any other game and you don't need internet or Steam just to play it.
Cheers.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
just fyi, You can always tell steam not to update a game if you dont want it to. I have done this plenty of times, to downgrade them and apply mods and keep Steam from removing them and putting the game up to the latest patch...
If I am right about the other sim, it requires steam because it is integrated with the steam shop, something that Trainz does not have to deal with because they provide their own in the form of the download station. Trainz checks it's access to the DLS every time you run it - its the same process.
If I am right about the other sim, it requires steam because it is integrated with the steam shop, something that Trainz does not have to deal with because they provide their own in the form of the download station. Trainz checks it's access to the DLS every time you run it - its the same process.
captainkman
You are reading this.
so did I, Captainkman. Spent about 2 hours installing steam and then about 20 minutes installing Edit: Train Simulator 13. I thought it was ridiculous at the time but then I found Cities in Motion for about 60% off (which I wouldn't have found anywhere else) and bought it, so Steam does have it's positives
Took me an hour to install Steam, a further two hours to install Train Simulator 2013 and then ANOTHER 4 hours on top of that to update before I could play!
I personally think that even if you buy Trainz through Steam, it should still not have to use Steam to install, run and update. But, that's not how it currently works and I won't buy Trainz through Steam until such a time. I shall continue to support N3V and my local games store by buying Trainz from said store.
Kieran.
Not everyone lives in places with unlimited Internet so a bit presumptuous to belittle those who have to worry about exceeding their limits
very funny. Have you every visited their various forums just before and following a forced upgrade? "No harm" is not how I would describe it
which has no bearing on the issue being discussed. Is it a user success? For some perhaps, for other perhaps not.
Perhaps you should read what has been said by N3V about what will and will not be in Steam. It might prevent some of the unbridled speculation about the future of Trainz.
Perhaps most people who need a decent PC for games already have one. And if such a PC is really beyond reach, cost wise, then how will they be able to buy enough bandwidth to have the same experience (if that is even possible). I guess they would have to move to places with cheep unlimited high speed Internet.
....
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That may be true but if it doesn't find the DLS, my TS12 still works. CM just has a red bar across the bottom of the window but nothing in Surveyor or Driver indicates a lack of connection.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
correct but you would not be able to download updates or access DLC. I am only saying that the other sim does the steam account because it is integrated to the steam workshop.
Which is important if you care about those things. Updates - perhaps, DLC - ?
Hi everybody.
Martinvk. With regard to your comment on my earlier posting stating "Not everyone lives in places with unlimited Internet so a bit presumptuous to belittle those who have to worry about exceeding their limits" then I respectfully request that you read (this time paying attention) to what I actually posted. What I did was to advise the forum member from Australia and other forum members regarding what was available in Britain and also what is becoming available through the mobile network providers by way of "mobile broadband" and the costs involved. Nowhere in my posting did I try to belittle the Australian member or anyone else who has broadband limits. It was purely a posting giving information on the situation here in the UK and I do not see how anyone trying to take a balanced view could interpret that as anything else.
Again Martinvk, with regard to your statement "Perhaps you should read what has been said by N3V about what will and will not be in Steam. It might prevent some of the unbridled speculation about the future of Trainz". Well I think N3V introduced much speculation themselves when announcing such things as the purple path, trainz world of rail and new era of the mainline. With regard to the foregoing, nothing has been guaranteed to come out of this so-called project with all its fancy titles as they are requesting "donations" to even start the project off.
In the foregoing their seems to be little stated by those involved in this creation as to what will happen to the donations if enough funds are not raised and the project is discontinued. Oh but there is the promise of "rewards" for those who make donations but nothing specific regarding what those rewards might be. You may get a free game, or a badge or even a feather in your cap who knows the speculation could be endless. One thing I would be willing to guarantee for sure would be, if the project does come about and makes a profit those who donated will not get a share of those profits.
N3V are a commercial organisation and should be bringing forward their own finances to enable on-going reinvestment as that is how commerce and finance works in the real world. The staff at Melbourne involved with the trainz simulator are paid salaries by the company that employs them and that employer like every other company has a duty to provide the funds not only for those salaries but also to enable them to carry out their current work and finance work projects into the future. If a reasonable and profitable future cannot be seen for trainz then like any employer wishing to be fair to their staff they should either redeploy them within the company on other work, or sadly make them redundant.
In the above, on the current plan how far are the donations supposed to go. Are the donations to be used to provide the salaries of the staff or just for the computers, paper, pens and other sundries that will be needed? I would suggest that there will be a very blurred line between what the donations should be paying for and what N3V should be paying for. Therefore, I for one will not be donating to this very dubious project. If N3V where issuing company shares to prospective investors in a traditional recognised manner then perhaps I might be interested based on the prospectus of having a guaranteed percentage return v my investment against any profits made from this project.
Bill
Martinvk. With regard to your comment on my earlier posting stating "Not everyone lives in places with unlimited Internet so a bit presumptuous to belittle those who have to worry about exceeding their limits" then I respectfully request that you read (this time paying attention) to what I actually posted. What I did was to advise the forum member from Australia and other forum members regarding what was available in Britain and also what is becoming available through the mobile network providers by way of "mobile broadband" and the costs involved. Nowhere in my posting did I try to belittle the Australian member or anyone else who has broadband limits. It was purely a posting giving information on the situation here in the UK and I do not see how anyone trying to take a balanced view could interpret that as anything else.
Again Martinvk, with regard to your statement "Perhaps you should read what has been said by N3V about what will and will not be in Steam. It might prevent some of the unbridled speculation about the future of Trainz". Well I think N3V introduced much speculation themselves when announcing such things as the purple path, trainz world of rail and new era of the mainline. With regard to the foregoing, nothing has been guaranteed to come out of this so-called project with all its fancy titles as they are requesting "donations" to even start the project off.
In the foregoing their seems to be little stated by those involved in this creation as to what will happen to the donations if enough funds are not raised and the project is discontinued. Oh but there is the promise of "rewards" for those who make donations but nothing specific regarding what those rewards might be. You may get a free game, or a badge or even a feather in your cap who knows the speculation could be endless. One thing I would be willing to guarantee for sure would be, if the project does come about and makes a profit those who donated will not get a share of those profits.
N3V are a commercial organisation and should be bringing forward their own finances to enable on-going reinvestment as that is how commerce and finance works in the real world. The staff at Melbourne involved with the trainz simulator are paid salaries by the company that employs them and that employer like every other company has a duty to provide the funds not only for those salaries but also to enable them to carry out their current work and finance work projects into the future. If a reasonable and profitable future cannot be seen for trainz then like any employer wishing to be fair to their staff they should either redeploy them within the company on other work, or sadly make them redundant.
In the above, on the current plan how far are the donations supposed to go. Are the donations to be used to provide the salaries of the staff or just for the computers, paper, pens and other sundries that will be needed? I would suggest that there will be a very blurred line between what the donations should be paying for and what N3V should be paying for. Therefore, I for one will not be donating to this very dubious project. If N3V where issuing company shares to prospective investors in a traditional recognised manner then perhaps I might be interested based on the prospectus of having a guaranteed percentage return v my investment against any profits made from this project.
Bill
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Oh, that's been spelled out very clearly a number of times. The way Kickstarter works, if project funding does not reach 100%, no money changes hands. If the project funding goes above 100% then we get to have "stretch goals" which are extra things that we'd really like to see, but which would require additional funding.
Correct. It's not a business investment. Consider it more like traditional patronage of the arts, perhaps.
No true scotsman fallacy?
1. Melbourne is about 1700km from here.
2. N3V is quite happy to pay the salaries. The question here is not whether there will be another version of Trainz, the question here is whether we can get enough community support to make something really revolutionary rather than "another generation of Trainz". The latter isn't horrible, but the former would be really awesome.
kind regards,
chris
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
THIS... It should be stressed to others because they obviously do not get it. I don't understand why everyone is not very excited about this.
amigacooke
Well-known member
New version fatique? The mythical new engine has been needed for so long that no-one can quite believe it when it's within reach.
Still I hope this will change when the KickStarter is in black and white (and at least red).
True, "belittling" was out of line, sorry. Glad that some people have great Internet plans, wish we all did.
As WindWalkr stated, this is a well known matter of fact, so why hint at some nefarious plan for the funds if the project is discontinued?
Hi marinvk and everybody (Again)
Martinvk, do not worry about the belittling comment, we all say and post things in haste and that is what makes these forums interesting. I also very much thank Chris (WindWalker) for replying to my posting but I still feel it leaves several questions unanswered.
Chris advised that the donations will make the difference between just another generation of trainz and something really awesome. However, I feel that Chris did not make clear why N3V are not financing this project from there own funds. Surely if they believe they can create something truly great the reinvestment capital can be raised, placed into the project development which at its conclusion (being such an awesome piece of software) would undoubtedly sell at a top premium price as forum members and newcomers throughout the world fall over each other to buy it.
Along with the above, Chris asks forum members to look at the donations not as a business investment to which there would be a return, but to consider it in the light of a donation to the arts which to me is fair enough. He also advises that N3V will be paying the salaries of all involved during the development of the software. As the forgoing salaries will undoubtedly make up large percentage of the development costs it continues to beg the question, what then will the donations be used for. Will it be paying for the buildings used there lighting and heating or (as I already asked in my earlier posting) will it be paying for the computers, printers, ink’s paper, pens or whatever.
Surely, when any organisation is requesting voluntarily donations, it has a high moral responsibility to give those it is requesting monies from a reasonable breakdown of how those monies will be used. So respectfully In reply to Martinvk and his above posting I am not suggesting that there is any nefarious alternative plan for the use of the donations, but to accept that the above is the basis of everything I am asking. There are other questions remaining but I believe the foregoing one is fundamental.
Bill
Martinvk, do not worry about the belittling comment, we all say and post things in haste and that is what makes these forums interesting. I also very much thank Chris (WindWalker) for replying to my posting but I still feel it leaves several questions unanswered.
Chris advised that the donations will make the difference between just another generation of trainz and something really awesome. However, I feel that Chris did not make clear why N3V are not financing this project from there own funds. Surely if they believe they can create something truly great the reinvestment capital can be raised, placed into the project development which at its conclusion (being such an awesome piece of software) would undoubtedly sell at a top premium price as forum members and newcomers throughout the world fall over each other to buy it.
Along with the above, Chris asks forum members to look at the donations not as a business investment to which there would be a return, but to consider it in the light of a donation to the arts which to me is fair enough. He also advises that N3V will be paying the salaries of all involved during the development of the software. As the forgoing salaries will undoubtedly make up large percentage of the development costs it continues to beg the question, what then will the donations be used for. Will it be paying for the buildings used there lighting and heating or (as I already asked in my earlier posting) will it be paying for the computers, printers, ink’s paper, pens or whatever.
Surely, when any organisation is requesting voluntarily donations, it has a high moral responsibility to give those it is requesting monies from a reasonable breakdown of how those monies will be used. So respectfully In reply to Martinvk and his above posting I am not suggesting that there is any nefarious alternative plan for the use of the donations, but to accept that the above is the basis of everything I am asking. There are other questions remaining but I believe the foregoing one is fundamental.
Bill
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