News from the Trainz Dev Forums.
- Thread starter JCitron
- Start date
Thank you for that information and good to know as the first issue will prevent further clutter up on the DLS with models we really can't use.
John
Thank you for that information and good to know as the first issue will prevent further clutter up on the DLS with models we really can't use.
John
Doesn't stop people uploading them at 3.5 though as the DLS accepting stuff without lod at 3.5, did a test the other day to find out, is only a warning at 3.5 and accepted by the DLS. Might want to actually check that at 3.7, I'm low on data thanks to Win10 upgrade failures so can't waste anything until September.
I have a feeling that large high poly scenery objects for example, that is only used once as a one off on a route and impossible to get below 500 polys without wrecking it are going to be accepted with a warning.
John, sir -- :wave:
As a creator I hate to throw those folks who widely use sketch-up under the bus, so I think this is were, maybe... perhaps... a very detail tutorial on how to make current TANE standard models might be needed. especially now that TANE is being re-programmed, if I can use that word, on how it will implement modes (as I had read from the Trainz Dev forum) --
There will always be folks out there that would like to create something and just see it in game ... So if the DLS / TANE is programmed to reject such items, like sketch-ups' models in this case, wouldn't it be fair to at least for N3V, or with their support, in creating instructional tutorials or even video tutorials on how to make future models work under TANE standards to assist the new generation? ...
I say this because I am looking down the road, and me thinks that future trainz products will most likely have stricter standards, so why not start now slowly creating a foundation of instructional tutorials, and even perhaps in game tutorials at the same time that the Trainz Dev works on improving new ways to improve the performance of the game!?
As you know how I am, John, from many previous posts directly to you how strongly I feel about trainz loading as fast as programingly possible -- When you told us about your 300km route, and how its' heavily dense forest quickly loaded in TANE in the correct test build I was eager to know more about this, because this means that frame-rate would NOT be an issue; But if we have heavily polys' models aren't we're back to having trouble frame-rate anyways?
Well, don't get me wrong ... one can say avoid the sketch ups, or any models not constructed under the proper current standards , but that would flood the DLS, requiring perhaps another massive clean-up years from now! I know, it's all speculation, but performance is so important that we need to look on how these unnecessarily right models should be treated! Like you've said, sir, paraphrasing your LOD comment, in which folks made improperly LOD models, which now is coming into focus, and not in a good way!
---- EDITED adding -- Read Malc post, this along can only flood the DLS with improper made models
Ishie
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John, sir -- :wave:
As a creator I hate to throw those folks who widely use sketch-up under the bus, so I think this is were, maybe... perhaps... a very detail tutorial on how to make current TANE standard models might be needed. especially now that TANE is being re-programmed, if I can use that word, on how it will implement modes (as I had read from the Trainz Dev forum) --
There will always be folks out there that would like to create something and just see it in game ... So if the DLS / TANE is programmed to reject such items, like sketch-ups' models in this case, wouldn't it be fair to at least for N3V, or with their support, in creating instructional tutorials or even video tutorials on how to make future models work under TANE standards to assist the new generation? ...
I say this because I am looking down the road, and me thinks that future trainz products will most likely have stricter standards, so why not start now slowly creating a foundation of instructional tutorials, and even perhaps in game tutorials at the same time that the Trainz Dev works on improving new ways to improve the performance of the game!?
As you know how I am, John, from many previous posts directly to you how strongly I feel about trainz loading as fast as programingly possible -- When you told us about your 300km route, and how its' heavily dense forest quickly loaded in TANE in the correct test build I was eager to know more about this, because this means that frame-rate would NOT be an issue; But if we have heavily polys' models aren't we're back to having trouble frame-rate anyways?
Well, don't get me wrong ... one can say avoid the sketch ups, or any models not constructed under the proper current standards , but that would flood the DLS, requiring perhaps another massive clean-up years from now! I know, it's all speculation, but performance is so important that we need to look on how these unnecessarily right models should be treated! Like you've said, sir, paraphrasing your LOD comment, in which folks made improperly LOD models, which now is coming into focus, and not in a good way!
---- EDITED adding -- Read Malc post, this along can only flood the DLS with improper made models
Ishie
The standards for making proper T:ANE models is the same as that for TS12 3.7. If you include proper tags, containers, and the necessary LOD you'll have no problems. The ones to really answer this are those in the group that actually create content such as Malc (Clam1952) who I just volunteered, Paul Cass, Andi, and others.
I agree that a one-off is fine and I have used my own Sketch-up models for this. As I said, sparingly because of the load on the system. I will have to check though and see what the results are. I remember someone mentioned some truck models that couldn't be loaded into T:ANE because they were too high poly and textures sizes were too high. I can't find the thread, of course, to reference it which would help clarify what I'm trying to say. If this is the case, T:ANE may just clamp up on them and not allow the models to come in and not just due to LOD issues.
So Win 10 killed you anyway... I'm lucky I have unlimited bandwidth, though with my sister and brother-in-law and nephews clogging our internet connection with their movies, it felt like I had limited access myself. I only got 3/4 machines updated. My laptop is too old and not recommended. It's very well then anyway because there are some hardware issues which will require a fresh install soon.
John
Yet same standards required in T:ANE as for TS12 SP1 3.7
I'm pretty sure that anything without lod and a ridiculous number of polys is simply not going to display in T:ANE. For example a large number of carz that were recently updated, install ok but do not display in game or the preview.
Correctly made objects if they require lod and it's done properly and gets down to somewhere under 500 polys shouldn't be a problem, obviously the lower the better.
And to put one myth to bed not everything requires lod, lod on something with maybe 10 polys is a kind of pointless as you can't reduce it by much if anything without it being blatantly obvious.
I'm pretty sure that anything without lod and a ridiculous number of polys is simply not going to display in T:ANE. For example a large number of carz that were recently updated, install ok but do not display in game or the preview.
Correctly made objects if they require lod and it's done properly and gets down to somewhere under 500 polys shouldn't be a problem, obviously the lower the better.
And to put one myth to bed not everything requires lod, lod on something with maybe 10 polys is a kind of pointless as you can't reduce it by much if anything without it being blatantly obvious.
Thank's for taking the time to reply John,I think NV3 have other things to deal with at a higher priority,I can wait for a few months and still enjoy TANE.
Your doing a grand job and have enjoyed reading all the extra infomation you have provided,your time is appreciated.
Daz
ianwoodmore
Active member
@ish6
MORK calling MARSZ - Come in ish6
Hi Ishie,
I'm tracking down Missing Dependencies that use mesh-asset as part of testing CM validation in TANE TrainzDev builds.
Reference: Marsz-I Passengers v3 KUID:58223:41558 KIND "Product" (Category Commodity)
I have come across a whole bunch of missing "astronaut 01.im. Looks like mesh-table meshname does not agree with what is available in mesh-asset.
See:
KUID2:2705:2014081208:2
KUID2:2705:2014081209:2
KUID2:2705:2014081210:2
KUID2:2705:2014081212:2
KUID:58223:30143
KUID:58223:30144
KUID:58223:30145
KUID:58223:30146
KUID:58223:30147
KUID:58223:30213
KUID:58223:30214
KUID:58223:30215
KUID:58223:30216
Ian
MORK calling MARSZ - Come in ish6
Hi Ishie,
I'm tracking down Missing Dependencies that use mesh-asset as part of testing CM validation in TANE TrainzDev builds.
Reference: Marsz-I Passengers v3 KUID:58223:41558 KIND "Product" (Category Commodity)
I have come across a whole bunch of missing "astronaut 01.im. Looks like mesh-table meshname does not agree with what is available in mesh-asset.
See:
KUID2:2705:2014081208:2
KUID2:2705:2014081209:2
KUID2:2705:2014081210:2
KUID2:2705:2014081212:2
KUID:58223:30143
KUID:58223:30144
KUID:58223:30145
KUID:58223:30146
KUID:58223:30147
KUID:58223:30213
KUID:58223:30214
KUID:58223:30215
KUID:58223:30216
Ian
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ianwoodmore
Active member
MORK calling all Creators
I'm tracking down Missing Dependencies that use mesh-asset, as part of testing CM validation in TANE TrainzDev builds.
So far with just 5 creators checked I have identified over 2000 instances where mesh filename in mesh-table was not available in referenced mesh-asset.
@BUGOR - see Trainzdev forum Internal Test Build 77730 #19 and #20.
~http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...t-builds-77730-amp-77738&p=1431110#post143111
KIND "Buildable" (Category Building)
KIND "Fixedtrack (Category Fixed Track)
Of those I have investigated it appears that mesh-asset kuid2:502415:100532:4 BGR Switch Main Library which is massive (600MB+) has missing meshes.
Being handled by Chris Windwalkr
@ish6 - see #31 this thread
@masterkit
Please check KIND "Track" (Category Track)
KUID2:480277:100024:1
KUID2:480277:100026:1
@s301 - see Traindev forum Internal Test Build 77730 #18
~http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...t-builds-77730-amp-77738&p=1431105#post143110
@Vendel
Please check KIND "Product" (Category Commodity)
KUID2:149987:9002:1
KUID2:149987:9024:1
Where creators are more likely to be frequenting non-DLS websites would a bi-lingual member please pass this message on.
Ian
I'm tracking down Missing Dependencies that use mesh-asset, as part of testing CM validation in TANE TrainzDev builds.
So far with just 5 creators checked I have identified over 2000 instances where mesh filename in mesh-table was not available in referenced mesh-asset.
@BUGOR - see Trainzdev forum Internal Test Build 77730 #19 and #20.
~http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...t-builds-77730-amp-77738&p=1431110#post143111
KIND "Buildable" (Category Building)
KIND "Fixedtrack (Category Fixed Track)
Of those I have investigated it appears that mesh-asset kuid2:502415:100532:4 BGR Switch Main Library which is massive (600MB+) has missing meshes.
Being handled by Chris Windwalkr
@ish6 - see #31 this thread
@masterkit
Please check KIND "Track" (Category Track)
KUID2:480277:100024:1
KUID2:480277:100026:1
@s301 - see Traindev forum Internal Test Build 77730 #18
~http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...t-builds-77730-amp-77738&p=1431105#post143110
@Vendel
Please check KIND "Product" (Category Commodity)
KUID2:149987:9002:1
KUID2:149987:9024:1
Where creators are more likely to be frequenting non-DLS websites would a bi-lingual member please pass this message on.
Ian
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Hello Ian --:wave:
You know, sir, I fix those items some time ago -- What I am going to do is re-do / fix and upload with 3.7 -- Those items uses 2.9!
These kuids below to a dear friend: Ede627 from the Ibertrainz, but he hardly ever participates in these forums! -- I'll check everything out, tho!
KUID2:2705:2014081208:2
KUID2:2705:2014081209:2
KUID2:2705:2014081210:2
KUID2:2705:2014081212:2
Thanks for letting me know!
Ishie
PS. Mork and Mindy, wow, the memories, wow!!!!! -- RIP Robin Williams!
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Question John; How then can my computer run smooth with 7 to 8 Sydney Harbour Bridges side by side as well as 6 to 7 Sydney Central Stations all built in Sketchup by me also with a complete City Circle with 3 double track undergound tunnels made in Sketchup, also not to mention a route that goes from Sydney to Dubbo and Sydney to Newcastle, as well a mass of other stuff in the way of fence splines, stairs, gantry and my computer runs it fine.
I am running Tane on a Black Caviar 2TB, my computer is also running 7 other hard drives at the same time, no not multi tasking just running
I believe the problem is that Trainz has been run using old computer hardware for that long that people didn't quiet understand what was ment by Tane the new era. its as simple as this, old hardware can not run Tane
no matter how much they try to make Tane run better the fact is you need good hardware.
regards
I am running Tane on a Black Caviar 2TB, my computer is also running 7 other hard drives at the same time, no not multi tasking just running
I believe the problem is that Trainz has been run using old computer hardware for that long that people didn't quiet understand what was ment by Tane the new era. its as simple as this, old hardware can not run Tane
no matter how much they try to make Tane run better the fact is you need good hardware.
regards
reijmerink
Member
Thanks John, its really appreciated!
This thread is probably redundant for the moment. It was intended to relay hard information on improvements achieved in the latest "ITBs" (pcas1986) released to members of the TD. Instead it has become another dev talking shop, which mirrors almost exactly the main preocccupations of the guest contributors to TD: LOD and polys. While these topics can be of consuming interest to some - much as the status of substance is to philosophers - those who want simply to use TANE are only interested in having it work for them. If they have problems in getting TANE to work for them, then they have interest only in getting solutions to these problems.
That said, the coming patches look pretty comprehensive and hopefully will resolve a lot of problems. They might even render the need for this kind of thread unnecessary in the future.
That said, the coming patches look pretty comprehensive and hopefully will resolve a lot of problems. They might even render the need for this kind of thread unnecessary in the future.
Even though I am not a content creator, I would take these models exported from Sketch-Up and process them in Blender or another 3d modeler where I could make the overall mesh less complex by merging parts together and taking the gazillion texture bits and putting them on a single texture.
This really doesn't have a lot to do with hardware performance because all computers will be stuck with this bottleneck as they struggle to push out the information. It's a lot of bits to read and write all at once.
Not necessarily so regarding the thread. There will always be improvements and stuff to report. Software doesn't just stop being updated once a single patch is released.
Sorry for making this become a sub-thread with community input on modeling, but nonetheless this is also an important. People creating models in this case Sketch-Up, can have a severe impact on performance.
Questions were bound to come up.
I agree on the patches, which by the way, are news to us too!
John
I disagree this thread is redundant. We've seen responses on both sides of the aisle to this thread. From "We want more detail then just Problems are being worked on and things are getting better" to now "This is just a rehash of whats on the TD forum". This thread has one major difference from the TD forum.... That being of course that *Everyone* can respond.
TD Forum is for the tech minded folk they've picked to work on bugs, a place they can goob to their hearts content and get active interaction with N3V about it. This thread is for the *rest of us*, whether we use it or not, to communicate at least with John and probably a few others, if we want to ask. Someone elsewhere complained about the difficulty of asking things of the TD Folk, questions being lost within threads, threads being lost within the forum..... Well, heres a spot, front and center, and it has at least John's attention.... So anyone with a question feel free to ask. But I hope ya'll understand that what the TD Folk do is Technical in nature, so don't be surprised if you get a technical response if you push hard enough. Just please don't be afraid to ask more questions.....
-Falcus
TD Forum is for the tech minded folk they've picked to work on bugs, a place they can goob to their hearts content and get active interaction with N3V about it. This thread is for the *rest of us*, whether we use it or not, to communicate at least with John and probably a few others, if we want to ask. Someone elsewhere complained about the difficulty of asking things of the TD Folk, questions being lost within threads, threads being lost within the forum..... Well, heres a spot, front and center, and it has at least John's attention.... So anyone with a question feel free to ask. But I hope ya'll understand that what the TD Folk do is Technical in nature, so don't be surprised if you get a technical response if you push hard enough. Just please don't be afraid to ask more questions.....
-Falcus
Zeldaboy14
Owner of ZPW.
@jcitron
You've almost got the thing about blender. See, when you import a sketchup model into blender, clean up as many poly's, then tab into edit mode, and reduce the poly's. Also use the decimate tool.
You've almost got the thing about blender. See, when you import a sketchup model into blender, clean up as many poly's, then tab into edit mode, and reduce the poly's. Also use the decimate tool.
Hi John- Going back to where this post started I would like add my agreement to the idea of being able to rotate items to a set angle of the dangle. It would help with a number of things like a street full of street lights and they all have to be placed and then turned to face the right way. A row of park benches... but you get the idea?
Regards
Doug
Regards
Doug