What's Happening to the Content Creators?

[LWVRR]

I've been working on my project for many, many years now and in the last 3 or 4 years, I've really been getting things done. With help from Jananton, I'm seeing things in Trainz that I thought I'd never see. In the last year I've been asking (on several occasions) on these forums for help for more content creations to finish this project faster. So far I've only gotten a couple of people that sound like they're interested but never come through and end up disappearing never to be heard from again. I've even contact some older content creators that have been around for a while and I never seem to get a reply back...not even a ""I've stopped creating at this point" type of email. I stopped posting on 3rd party sites long ago because you'll almost never get an answer from anybody there. It seems like these 3rd party folks get into their groups and never venture outside that group again when it comes to content creation.
Now I realize that there are specific groups out there that make a particular type of content, after all I'm one of those type. But I can remember the day when the content creators would be willing to help out if they could, especially if it was in their realm of expertize. Has content creation become too hard? Why does it seem to be far less content creators out there? Am I not getting any replies because of the layout subject matter? I don't get it...what happened to all the content creators out there?
I plan on seeing our project through to the end with or with out help, but it sure would go faster if I had some help. I still need buildings made, tracks, vehicles or anything that has to do with the 1950's. This will be a one of a kind layout when I'm done. I'm sure there has got to be somebody out there with a peak of interests in this project.

 

[bendorsey]

Anything I can make beside what I've already made? (except that darn courthouse, lol).

Ben

 

[ish6]

Hi.

I tend to agree -- I have e-mail my fellow content creators, and 99% of the time I don't get a reply, even from a couple that are still active in the forum --- And to be honest, I don't e-mail them again, ever, and just shrugs my shoulders and move forward.... And if it's an item that I really need I just duplicate it --- It's an aveue that I don't like taking but in these days, unlike when the forum first started, it's hard to fine help,etc --

Just my 2 cents on this matter!!!

Ish

 

[LWVRR]

Anything I can make beside what I've already made? (except that darn courthouse, lol).

Ben

Oh yes, I did forget to mention Ben's help while I was on my soapbox...He was a great help with all my bridge needs.
@ Ben-I have the big gauntlet bridge that's gonna need some tweaking but I'm waiting until I'm working in that area. So you'll be hearing from me down the road sometime. I think everybody says the same thing about that courthouse. I still need to it though because the Laurel Line runs right beside it.

@ Ish-There is a definite change from what this place used to be. I also have duplicated several items just to make due, like the repaints of the Greenliner trolleys. But eventually I like to replace those items with new ones.

 

[ish6]

I would like to add that there are moments when we get lucky, in that, if one is fortunate enough to fine that layout maker, programmer, beta-tester, and overall super creator then that, on many levels, is enough! I am very lucky that I am in that position, and we share ideas via chat and e-mails, and we have a great internet relationship -- But these guys have also been here since the beginning, so, in that regard, we think alive, etc ... I guess, in these times, in the forums, is like high school, you make a friend and that friend and youself make it through together! That's the best way to express it all! Hopefully it happens to you too!!!

Honestly, I hate to duplicate contents because creating new and different contents for folks to use on thier layouts really motivate me -- but like you said, sometimes you have to do it, to make due!

Anyhow, enough rambling from my end, etc LOL ... Good Luck, and I hope folks jump in help to you out:wave: -- Right now I am out of this world with Marsz contents! LOL:hehe:

Take care
Ish

 

[martinvk]

Don't know about other creators but there is a definite cycle in creation.

When I started, I couldn't wait to make another object, often had several in various stages of development at once. It was a real thrill just to see the latest object appear in Trainz.

Then it became more of a create as needed. That lasted the longest which also resulted in many projects dragging on for months and years as each new object would put the project on hold until it was completed. Since many objects were just tools to make route creating easier, they were not too time consuming but others like specific stations and other one-of-a-kind objects did take significant amounts of time.

Now the creation itch has been scratched enough so that new objects are rather few and far between. It also helps once a large enough library of objects are available so that the need for something really new doesn't happen that often anymore.

So yea, probably many of the long time residents of Trainz that were creating back in the day have already scratched their creation itch often enough.

So where are the new creators? Looking back on it, it was probably a bit easier then. Everyone was in the same boat so that a mutual aid society developed. The objects themselves were also less demanding in someways. Even if poly limits were more severe, the state of the art was such that relatively simple objects were all that could produced. LOD, multi-meg textures, occlusion, bump mapping and other techniques were in the future. I know that many of my earliest objects that were greeted with such enthusiasm then would barely get a yawn today.

Times have changed and the bar has been raised so many times that first-time creators must face a much harder task to get in. I think that is just the way things work. Back in the day a simple DOS program was easy to make, often with line by line code instructions even printed in some magazines. Today, not likely.

 

[LWVRR]

My concern is time. I'm hoping to finish the layout enough to get it out to the public then maybe I can get some other folks interested. With only two people working on it, one on models and one on the layout it's a slow go and seemingly far away from release time. At one time I was learning Blender but now because of work, I have no time for it. I have just enough time on the weekend to work on the layout itself. Speaking of the weekend work...I have my layout updates to finish.

 

[LWVRR]

Times have changed and the bar has been raised so many times that first-time creators must face a much harder task to get in. I think that is just the way things work. Back in the day a simple DOS program was easy to make, often with line by line code instructions even printed in some magazines. Today, not likely.

I believe you are right. I can remember speaking out about this same subject many moons ago, but like so many other things here, they fell on deaf ears. Now we're seeing the results of progress...very few creators.

 

[sniper297]

My guess would be the dumbing down of computer users. Gotta remember when trainsims first came out, DOS had only been dead about 5 years - so most trainsimmers in 2001-2002 still knew how to write a simple batch file in a command window, about half came from the era when you had to assemble the computer and install and configure the operating system, and maintain it. Kids that grew up with GUI don't know what a file extension is, often don't even know what a file name is, and sometimes have to even have "double click" explained to them. Trainz is one of the easiest games to reskin for, the cloning process is done for you, the images are usually already in a format readable in any image editor, so there's no fiddling around with copying folder structures and converting proprietary image formats to TGA and back again - yet 90% of these pointNclick kids won't even try reskinning, or give up after a week or two if they even make an attempt to learn it. An entire generation spoiled by 17 years of preinstalled GUI interface, you're not gonna get as many content creators out of that pool as you did from the generation who trudged through so many hours of syntax errors getting something to work.

 

[slabay]

I got started doing reskinning because there were things that I wanted but didn't exist, so I learned how to reskin things. When there were features that I wanted, I learned about scripts and how to add those in to the stuff too. I actually made one simple mesh with gMax just out of curiosity, and I would like to learn Blender (but so far, no luck on that front). I've got to admit, I have been very frustrated, even trying to continue with stuff that already exists, as you have already mentioned, with people who won't even give the courtesy of a reply. I have emailed and PM'ed people for permission to release their stuff to never get replied to. I understand that people may be busy and have a life outside of Trainz (I've got 4 kids, a full time job, and am going to school for my bachelor's degree), but surely you must empty your mailboxes from time to time. Even if your answer is no, the courtesy of a simple reply would be nice. Hell, it is only 2-3 letters of effort, depending on the answer, and a click to send it. I've been happy to work with Dave Snow, Ed (Euphod), Mike (Leeferr), Pete Willard, and MSP (Mchawkman) and their fine content. I'd love to branch out some more (I've got a great inspiration from another board for some locos and I'd like to do some Office Cars), but keep running into dead ends. The community seems to have too many cliques, too. This group doesn't like that group, this person doesn't like anybody, that person got their feelings hurt or just plain decided to move on, and oh yeah, "I'm taking my ball with me when I leave."

I've seen a few screenshots of stuff that I've made (I feel more like a content modifier than a creator so far) being used in routes or just plain referenced to, and I think it is an awesome feeling to know that people are using something I've had a hand in and enjoying using. The community is just flat-out harmed and stifled by the rampant egos, immaturity, or whatever.

As far as the gimme's go, I see it in my own children, and I have certainly tried to raise them better than that. They want everything just given to them. They aren't willing to put the slightest effort into doing anything for themselves. Unfortunately, it is a reflection of society as a whole is becoming.

 

[bendorsey]

Two thoughts:

1. I wonder if this is due to Auran/N3V no longer accepting 2004/2006 content. That has to be discouraging for content creators. A clue might be a count of how items have been made for each version of Trainz. My guess would be 2004 in the lead. When they made the announcment I did some serious thinking and one option was to say to heck with it and go back to my HOn3 model railroad. Eventually I realized I enjoyed making things for others to much to quit so I opted to place my items in 2004 format on the TPR site then run them thru 2010's CMP which converts them to 2009 format and place those on the DLS. The interesting thing is I didn't buy TS2010. A good Trainzer friend who did not want me to bail out bought it for me. Nice of him wouldn't you say?

2. I also wonder if the fact that each successive version of Trainz is more and more incompatible with older content might not have something to do with it. That has to be discouraging to content creators as well. Its not that each successive version should not be better its just that making them less and less compatible with older content seems to me to be self-defeating. At what point will nothing made for 2004/06 for example work in the latest version no matter what you do.

Ben

 

[clam1952]

I tend to make most of my own stuff as the route I'm doing is a bit specific, consequently what I had planned to take a few months has stretched into 3 1/2 years, not helped by a few distracting requests for some UK NG stuff and N3V moving the goal posts, necessitating updating most of my earlier stuff, moral there is should have uploaded it when I did it. Probably should get round to it actually sooner than later before anything else changes!
Anyway, the point being that I'm not getting distracted again until I'm finished with the current project. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few people creating stuff that are in the same situation.

Being brought up on various Pre PC computers and then getting to grips with CPM, MSDos, Linux alpha testing and a bit of game development and open source programming I find most things Trainz related fairly straight forward. It does seem to me that the current crop of PC users have no idea of what a computer is actually capable of and no desire to bother to learn. As said if it isn't point and click and requires reading instructions, it's too hard.

 

[martinvk]

Two thoughts:

1. I wonder if this is due to Auran/N3V no longer accepting 2004/2006 content. That has to be discouraging for content creators. A clue might be a count of how items have been made for each version of Trainz. My guess would be 2004 in the lead. ...

Ben

Whatever the merits of the supported versions, I think the 2004 number is a false lead. Remember that it was around long before the newer versions so it would naturally have more items. Plus, in order to make new models as widely compatible as possible, many creators, myself included, would use a previous version number even if their current Trainz version was newer. This wouldn't matter if none of the newer features were used in the object.

 

[ish6]

....Plus, in order to make new models as widely compatible as possible, many creators, myself included, would use a previous version number even if their current Trainz version was newer.

This is a practice that I have been doing ever since my first object -- it still works like charmed, but not on all objects, some need the new requirements like LOD system for tracks!

Also, the "Trainz Life-Cycle Policy" is something I strongly disagree with .... I like to give the community, all versions, accesses to my contents ... I know for a fact that this is a reason why some very talented creators do not upload to the DLS!
http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/Trainz_Life-Cycle_Policy

Ish

 

[martinvk]

...
2. I also wonder if the fact that each successive version of Trainz is more and more incompatible with older content might not have something to do with it. That has to be discouraging to content creators as well. Its not that each successive version should not be better its just that making them less and less compatible with older content seems to me to be self-defeating. At what point will nothing made for 2004/06 for example work in the latest version no matter what you do.

Ben

I think compatibility is a will-o'-the-wisp, that scares too many people into not advancing. Using the old car analogy, if modern cars had to be compatible with all that came before, there wouldn't be any modern cars, we'd still be driving a horseless carriage. Sure you can still drive one if you want to, just don't expect to be let on a highway with minimum speed limits or expect parts at every car repair shop. You're on your own. As it is with older unsupported Trainz. They will still work and provide hours of fun but the pen has written and moved on.

 

[pcas1986]

Well I can think of one compelling reason.

Having spent six months developing an asset that had problems on the DLS due to "missing kuids" and then getting bad mouthed about it, then I can understand why some have given up.

Although I had heard about this type of behaviour, finding oneself on the end of the criticism makes me wonder why I bother.

 

[slabay]

Well I can think of one compelling reason.

Having spent six months developing an asset that had problems on the DLS due to "missing kuids" and then getting bad mouthed about it, then I can understand why some have given up.

Although I had heard about this type of behaviour, finding oneself on the end of the criticism makes me wonder why I bother.

Here's a frustrating one: Put up an asset that uses something that is not on the DLS and have to deal with all of the "Missing dependency" emails. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that in the description, it says "uses xyz. Get them at www.blahblah.com" Rrgh. Seriously? You can hack into the config to find my email address, but you can't read the description to find where to get the dependency?

 

[stovepipe]

Well I can think of one compelling reason.

Having spent six months developing an asset that had problems on the DLS due to "missing kuids" and then getting bad mouthed about it, then I can understand why some have given up.

Although I had heard about this type of behaviour, finding oneself on the end of the criticism makes me wonder why I bother.

That particular user can't seem to get any download to work let alone yours - no complaints from the other 995 downloaders. Besides there were a number of people who followed your blog and thread who added their appreciation. Surely that counts for something?

 

[LWVRR]

Another thing that I thought of is that not every content creator is working with the same version of Trainz...This happened to me first hand and it made things more confusing then they already were. Well, we can only hope that things will get better and we're not seeing the beginning of a dying art.

 

[pcas1986]

...Surely that counts for something?

Yes it does. Thanks for reminding me.