norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
oh you... 
Want to get into content creation, need some help.
- Thread starter AMTRAKwannabe
- Start date
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
My problems with Blender are twofold. I am used to a completely menu driven workspace and because I learnt my draughting over sixty years ago, I find the Blender interface awkward. I expect people will say that something near is available but not for me I'm afraid.
I query why Chris considers Gmax to be not worth worrying about, it was Gmax that built most of the content on the DLS and although it may be old, it is not out-of-date. A new exporter would revitalise it. Remember the exporter that Pev made, if N3V took that over, sorted things out with Discreet, and published it as the new N3V Gmax exporter, they would be helping themselves in the process.
Peter
I query why Chris considers Gmax to be not worth worrying about, it was Gmax that built most of the content on the DLS and although it may be old, it is not out-of-date. A new exporter would revitalise it. Remember the exporter that Pev made, if N3V took that over, sorted things out with Discreet, and published it as the new N3V Gmax exporter, they would be helping themselves in the process.
Peter
johnwhelan
Well-known member
I don't think they have the option with GMAX, the product was brought by another company and new exporters are not being permitted. Remember Pev's GMAX exporter, technically it can be done but there are licensing issues. Blender 2.69 the version I'm using can be used with menus that was the big change from 2.49b to 2.5 the interface to make it more consistent with other products.
Cheerio John
AMTRAKwannabe
Norfolk & Western Lives
I'm one of them!
Also, to change .bmp images to .tga do I have to alias it in the mesh or can I just use PM2IM?
I have 3DSMax but so far have been unable to texture even a simple box. I just can't figure it out. Why couldn't they made it simple like GMax?
I'm slowly getting burned out on content creation anyhow, so if they stop accepting GMax created stuff, then I'll find another hobby.
Cheers,
Dave
I'm slowly getting burned out on content creation anyhow, so if they stop accepting GMax created stuff, then I'll find another hobby.
Cheers,
Dave
AMTRAKwannabe
Norfolk & Western Lives
Not PM2IM, but Images2TGA.
Meant Images2TGA, just converted an old TRS2004 asset to .im...
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
John
Where did you find this, I doubt that N3V asked and considering the software is 10 years old, not supported and thus not earning any money for the owners, I doubt whether they would care. Pev withdrew it because of a comment by Chris, not because of a letter from a lawyer.
Peter
Peter
Where did you find this, I doubt that N3V asked and considering the software is 10 years old, not supported and thus not earning any money for the owners, I doubt whether they would care. Pev withdrew it because of a comment by Chris, not because of a letter from a lawyer.
Peter
Peter
Don't feel bad, neither can I.
I used 3ds R4 for DOS and then 3DS Max 1.0 very briefly before I went on to other things. The interface in Max is/was awful.
John
Well, I just had a look, but over here in Europe mere mortals need to pay almost €3000 for 3DStudio Max from Autodesk. If that doesn't frighten of budding content creators, I don't know what will. :hehe:
As John mentioned earlier as of blender 2.5x there are menus so one doesn't have to remember keyboard shortcuts for everything, although those can still be used and greatly enhance the speed of the workflow when used. Development in the menu department is still going on btw to make it even more accessible.
Then there's one thing not mentioned, as the focus understandably lies on creation of 3D objects, but blender has much more under the hood then that, did you know for instance blender is also a quite capable video editing suite, much more precise then Windows Movie Maker, just to name one everybody probably has in his or hers windows installation?
I agree with Paul a few posts earlier that everybody should be able to use what they like best and are comfortable with, but when one wants to try something more up to date then Gmax and the choice is to fork out either €3000 or nothing I'd know what I choose.
Greetings from nighttime Amsterdam,
Jan
As John mentioned earlier as of blender 2.5x there are menus so one doesn't have to remember keyboard shortcuts for everything, although those can still be used and greatly enhance the speed of the workflow when used. Development in the menu department is still going on btw to make it even more accessible.
Then there's one thing not mentioned, as the focus understandably lies on creation of 3D objects, but blender has much more under the hood then that, did you know for instance blender is also a quite capable video editing suite, much more precise then Windows Movie Maker, just to name one everybody probably has in his or hers windows installation?
I agree with Paul a few posts earlier that everybody should be able to use what they like best and are comfortable with, but when one wants to try something more up to date then Gmax and the choice is to fork out either €3000 or nothing I'd know what I choose.
Greetings from nighttime Amsterdam,
Jan
johnwhelan
Well-known member
and the comment from Chris was based on the licence. From memory Auran paid to have an exporter made for GMAX and there are restrictions in the license.
I can't recall the exact words used by Chris but its somewhere in the forum.
Cheerio John
Dinorius_Redundicus
kuid 68213
This is all making me feel very dispirited too.
I understood the reason why gmax is no longer supported was precisely because it was free and easy to use and people were sticking with it rather than upgrading to 3DSMax like the marketing guys at Autodesk wanted them to. Hence anything that now extends the life and utility of gmax, is seen as something that would be at the expense of 3DSMax, so is verboten by agreement between Autodesk and the company that took over gmax. Hope I got that right, I may not have.
I suppose if forced to, I could learn 3DSMax, but it's just another burn out factor. At least it has some commonality with gmax, but learning Blender would be a really unpleasant prospect.
It's interesting to hear Chris complain about how 3DSMax breaks plug-in support with every new release and how dealing with that isn't an ideal use of N3V's resources. No doubt that's true, but it's sort of like how I feel when content creation rules change with every new release of Trainz or when I'm told that gmax won't be applicable in future.
I understood the reason why gmax is no longer supported was precisely because it was free and easy to use and people were sticking with it rather than upgrading to 3DSMax like the marketing guys at Autodesk wanted them to. Hence anything that now extends the life and utility of gmax, is seen as something that would be at the expense of 3DSMax, so is verboten by agreement between Autodesk and the company that took over gmax. Hope I got that right, I may not have.
I suppose if forced to, I could learn 3DSMax, but it's just another burn out factor. At least it has some commonality with gmax, but learning Blender would be a really unpleasant prospect.
It's interesting to hear Chris complain about how 3DSMax breaks plug-in support with every new release and how dealing with that isn't an ideal use of N3V's resources. No doubt that's true, but it's sort of like how I feel when content creation rules change with every new release of Trainz or when I'm told that gmax won't be applicable in future.
From Trainz's point of view, does it care or even know how the object started in life? Well as long as the IM file produced by Gmax is accepted in Trainz, I will continue to use it. Can't beat the price and since I'm comfortable with it, that's where I will stay making my objects.
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
John
On the Turbosquid forum the cost of a Gmax exporter licence was quoted at $80,000. Assuming that is per single exporter, then Aura/N3V have forked out a considerable sum for all the exporters they have made . If it is more likely a licence to create exporters without being confined to one exporter per licence then I suggest that N3V could buy Pevs exporter, rework it to make it their code and provide it under their cover-all licence.
No doubt Chris will have something to say about this.
Peter
On the Turbosquid forum the cost of a Gmax exporter licence was quoted at $80,000. Assuming that is per single exporter, then Aura/N3V have forked out a considerable sum for all the exporters they have made . If it is more likely a licence to create exporters without being confined to one exporter per licence then I suggest that N3V could buy Pevs exporter, rework it to make it their code and provide it under their cover-all licence.
No doubt Chris will have something to say about this.
Peter
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
I'm sorry but when I used Gmax at once point one of the best things about it is that it is exactly like max (of that time) still it isnt much different. I came here from using max since 2.5 so it was easy to go from max 4 to gmax. I stopped using it because of the lack of advanced material support and the fact that it constantly crashed and ate whatever I was working on.
The thing that is really bothering me about not supporting max anymore is all the years of templates, know how, utilities I have written, all that being thrown away. Then having to learn something like blender... which I am sure can be good but wow.
Actually, 3DS Max is easier to use than GMax. You probably ask why? Well, 3DS Max is the bigger brother of GMax, so to speak, as these 2 programs originally came from the same developer. In 3DS Max, you can do a render and you will see a render but not in GMax (unless one uses an outside program), also 3DS Max has lots more features GMax never has/had. With UVW unwrapping for example, just one way 3DS Max makes this easier. That is why 3DS Max is easier to use overall compared to GMax (Yes I know, 3DS Max costs heaps to buy... but look further below how there is one way one can get 3DS Max cheaper).
3DS Max is easier to learn too with its included help files and more important, with its included tutorial files. These are a hand on guide of how to use it, texture with it, animate etc. with 3DS Max. That is how most people learn to use 3DS Max (providing they can afford it, like students for example).
You do not need fancy 3DS Max courses nor getting a teacher to show the how, where etc., there are 3DS Max books from Amazon and EBay, usually with included tutorial examples on DVDs/CDs, one can buy cheap (second hand). Just another way to learn and to get into 3DS Max creating.
The hard part is to configure what one has created, so this shows up in Trainz. The lack of some example files on the DevWiki, which one can disseminate and learn from is a glaring example what is wrong with configuring for Trainz, especial when N3V shifts the goal posts every so often, (hallo, Splines anyone?) which requires a rethink, relearn or whatever, the way things were done creating wise in the (golden) olden days here.
Lennard
If you are a GMax user and happy with it, then stay with it until it is unusable. Nothing I have read so far suggests this is going to happen soon.
Perhaps you should know that there is a debate going on within the Blender community about the user interface. As far as I can tell this is not about the menu or hotkeys (there are 100's of them) but rather the underlying software. As one who likes to write Python addons, learning and dealing with objects in Blender is quite difficult.
One of my aims for improving Trainz usage of Blender is to create some addons that copy all the usable options of materials and textures and put them into a special Trainz menu panel. That way a learning Trainz Blender user will know for certain which options can be used. Most of the features in Blender cannot be used for Trainz purposes at all. I'm rather hoping that T:ANE will further develop the XML model so that more features can be employed for Trainz assets.
Perhaps you should know that there is a debate going on within the Blender community about the user interface. As far as I can tell this is not about the menu or hotkeys (there are 100's of them) but rather the underlying software. As one who likes to write Python addons, learning and dealing with objects in Blender is quite difficult.
One of my aims for improving Trainz usage of Blender is to create some addons that copy all the usable options of materials and textures and put them into a special Trainz menu panel. That way a learning Trainz Blender user will know for certain which options can be used. Most of the features in Blender cannot be used for Trainz purposes at all. I'm rather hoping that T:ANE will further develop the XML model so that more features can be employed for Trainz assets.
I have just seen this but I guess this relates only to current, new and future editions of 3DS Max. If one has an older copy of Max, I guess one is relatively safe with the current Max Exporters from N3V (up to Max 2012 I think). As I have 3DS Max 2009 (woohoo), I also guess I should be relative future proof for some time with 3DS Max, unless someone else tells me different.
Lennard
OK, I might jump ship IF the price was down to earth rather than in the stratosphere. Is there a market for older versions or can't they be resold like Trainz, i.e., one owner for life?
New exporters not being permitted is part of the design of GMAX. As others have noted, you had to pay a very expensive license to be allowed to bundle GMAX with your game, and the exporter license went along with this. The exporters are DRM-protected so it's neither legal nor practical to create new exporters without paying their license fees. Since the product is no longer supported (as of 2005!) the rights owners no longer offer it for sale, thus no new exporters.
chris