TransDEM issues

[KingConrail76]

You can do that...it's called map tile server.

If you fire up your TS2010, and open the CDP of the route I created for you of your requested DEM...you would see the results of what can be done in only about a half hours time.

Also, no need to wait for emails from US government for Topo information;
http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM1/

-click on "Region Definition.jpg" to see a map of regions, then go back and select the region, then select the lat. long. coordinates. Done.

 

[JCitron]

It would be really nice if Transdem was selectable to be a varried opague slider tool button, transluscent (see through page) ... then you could overlay topo maps on top of the blank rainbow colored DEM.

You mean to tell me the only drawing tool is that poly line blue path button ... sheesh

Now that you've got your DEM file, close it and leave it alone temporarily.

You want to take care of your maps first and get them in place before you open the DEM. This has to do with the huge DEM files and not the images. I found this out the hard way when working with TransDEM.
I highly suggest that you read through Roland's very helpful documentation and experiment, however, see below for some quick steps.

Follow the instructions to ensure that the Map Data and Web Tile servers are configured. Roland has kindly supplied the basic setups for the most common ones.

To get your maps do this:

Click on Raster Map from the menu.
Choose Map Tile Server.
Choose a provider. I pick Google Maps and Combined for the tile type.
Click in the map window and choose your area you want.
Keep clicking on the little arrows to navigate around if you have to.
Click on the map to zoom.
When you see the area you want, click the BIG arrow to select the coordinates.
Click Get Map to select the image and save it to where it wants to go.
Click Close to return to TransDEM main window.

-----

Now get your overlay maps - your Topo Maps.

Activate the Simple Route Editor tool and draw a spline on the map to indicate where you want to get the maps for.
Deactivate the spline drawing tool when you're done.
Click on Raster Map again.
Choose Web Mapping Servers.
Pick US and Canada
Pick MS Research Maps or USGS National Map -- Double Click on the one you want to open and connect to.
Click on the Plus (+) sign and choose the USGS Raster Graphics (Topo Maps)
Click the Map Images along path
Click Get Map
You'll be prompted to save your map(s) to.

Let it do its thing. When it's done, hit Close.

Your maps are now imported into TransDEM and you can now open your DEM up. Your maps will be in place on the DEM.

As I said, read Roland's instructions. I may have skipped a step here.

John

 

[cascaderailroad]

Sounds like several weeks worth or reading, and months worth of cyphering, just to get a bunch of lines drawn on a 3D surface.

By the time I receive my masters degree in model rocketry science ... I should have a grasp on this Transdem program.

Lucky I wasn't JFK with the moon program: "Er Ahh, We choose not to go to the moon, not because it is too hard ... but because it is a completly stupid idear".

 

[geophil]

We humans have developed different ways to learn new skills. Sometimes we succeed with intuition, more often with repetition and in rare cases we simply look at the description and understand the whole concept in an instant.

Based on users' feedback I always suggest to start near the end when it comes to TransDEM. "Near the end" means exporting from TransDEM to Trainz with the ready-made data in the Muengsten tutorial. There you have it all:

• the DEM (in its proper meaning as a digital map with one feature - elevation - only),
• the raster map as a topographic overlay,
• and the vector data for the course of our line.

Usually, some sort of systematic approach to conquer new territory makes it a whole lot easier to grasp. The Muengsten tutorial illustrates what you need, DEM, raster map, vectors. Then the Quick Start Guide directs you to some of the data resources and how to pre-process that data in TransDEM.




As said often before, the term "DEM" may have lead to much confusion among some Trainz users at it has wrongly been used to refer to all the route preparation work that uses geo data. A Trainz route builder is quite unlikely to ever "make a DEM". (There are a few exceptions, e.g. when you try to model the terrain of a Colorado mining area 100 years ago :wave. We download DEMs from mapping agencies like the USGS or the British Ordnance Survey. And it's only one of our three types of maps or cartography.

The DEM, the Digital Elevation Model, is nothing more than a bunch of elevation (or height) values in a rectangular grid. The Brits or the New Zealanders offer their DEMs in a clear text format which illustrates it quite well:

ncols 200
nrows 200
xllcorner 470000
yllcorner 110000
cellsize 50
150.3 138.4 147.1 154.5 158.3 160.4 162.1 163.2 165.7 167.7 169.3 170.5 174.1 176.7 185.2 196.5 208.1 215.2 220.2 224.2 227.8 232.4 236.9 238.9 238.1 237.7 240.3 245.9 250.1 250.9 242.4 227.8 230.9 237.4 240.2 238.7 233.6 225.3 211.3 192.9 192.9 202.9 200.1 189.2 170.1 154.1 165 183.4 187.3 211 224.3 227.2 228.1 234.2 237.2 237 234.4 230.8 224.4 214.5 203.4 191.7 180.2 168.9 157.4 154 143.9 131 114.1 103.8 96.4 96.1 93.8 85.9 83.1 80.1 77.3 76.3 75.8 76.2 77.7 78.3 78.6 79.2 80 81.9 82.5 82 82.5 83 83 83.2 83.7 84.6 84.4 84.3 83.8 84.1 84.1 83.7 83.3 83.4 83.8 83 82.5 82.5 82 81.7 81.5 81.3 81.2 80.9 80.7 79.8 79.1 78.8 78.5 78.1 77.9 76.7 77 75.8 74.9 74.5 73.6 72.4 72.5 71.1 70.7 70.1 69.7 69 68.3 67.6 66.6 67.6 68.6 68.8 69.6 70.6 72.4 74 76.3 79.7 83.2 87 90 91.5 91.9 87.4 84.2 84.5 88.3 93.4 115.7 131 127.1 119.6 110 101.7 95 89.9 86.9 83.7 80.6 78.5 77.7 76.7 76.4 76.3 77 77.9 79 80 80.9 80.8 81.3 83.1 83 82.2 80.4 78.1 74.7 70.7 65.9 61.4 58.7 56.1 57 60.5 65 69.6 75.9 81.4 83.8 85.4 86.7 87.5 87.9 88.3
154.2 143.8 141.8 150.5 154.2 158.3 161 162.9 165.5 167.6 168.9 170.3 171.3 173.9 185.5 199.6 211 219.5 225.8 230.3 233.6 235.3 236.4 231.3 225 218.7 226.4 238.3 244.6 246.1 234.2 216.2 206.5 216.8 226.7 230.3 225.8 215 201.2 187.2 179.3 189.6 191.2 182.8 177.5 173.4 171.2 184.8 200.3 220.6 230.9 238 240.4 241.2 239.5 236.6 233.2 229.2 222.5 212.9 201.9 190.4 178.8 166.1 157.4 149.7 140.6 125.6 117.4 113.6 109 106.7 98.6 92.9 85.6 80.8 77.7 76.6 75.4 76.7 77.6 78.5 79.2 80.1 80.7 81.2 81.8 82.3 82.9 84.6 84.3 84.7 85.3 85.2 84.7 84.7 84.7 83.7 83.5 83.2 82.2 82 82.2 81.8 81.8 81.9 81.6 80.6 80.1 79.7 79.3 79.1 78.9 78.4 77.8 77.3 77.1 77.1 76.9 75.9 76 75.5 74.5 73.9 73.2 72.1 71.7 71.5 71.2 70.2 69.2 68.7 68.2 67.6 67.6 68.1 68.5 69.2 70.2 71.2 73.2 75.2 77.4 80.8 84.2 86.7 89.3 91.8 91.4 87.5 85.3 86.3 90.4 103.8 125.3 129.5 125 116.8 106.9 99.4 93.3 89.1 84.4 81.8 78.8 77.4 76 75.6 75.3 75.4 76.3 77.3 78.3 79.3 79.3 79.2 81.3 82.3 82.4 81.4 78.9 76.4 72.5 68.3 63.3 59.5 57.6 56.1 58.2 64.1 68.5 73.4 78.2 81.6 83.2 84.5 85.7 86.3 86.8 87
155.9 149.4 142.5 143.4 150 154.9 158.8 161.8 163.5 165.2 166.4 166.8 167.1 173 185.2 201.1 213.4 222.6 229.3 233.9 236.5 236.2 233.1 224.5 206.7 199.5 214.2 229.5 237.7 240.8 233.1 213.6 196.6 195.8 208.7 216.5 217.3 208.5 191.6 179 170.5 179.5 183.8 177.7 172.8 167.9 167.5 183.1 203.8 224.4 234 240.5 243.2 242.1 238.5 234.5 230.3 226.1 220 210.4 199.5 188.5 176.9 164.5 154.6 146.3 136.8 128.2 125.5 123.5 120.9 113.4 113.9 99.7 91.3 83.2 79.5 77.7 79.3 80.2 80.7 81.4 81.8 82.2 82.1 82.6 83.2 83.9 84.9 86.6 87.6 88.2 88.1 88.6 87.7 86.8 85.8 85.1 84.8 83.7 81.9 81.5 81.4 81.3 81.2 81.2 81.3 80.5 80.1 79.7 79.4 79.1 79.1 78.5 77.7 77 76.4 76.2 75.8 75.4 75 74.6 73.9 73.2 72.5 71.7 71.2 71.8 71.5 70.8 69.7 68.6 68.5 68.5 68.7 69.2 69.6 69.9 70.9 72 74 76.7 79.8 83.2 86.9 90.7 91.9 93.7 90.6 87.3 86.3 87.9 93.1 110.7 127.7 125.3 118.5 109.4 101.5 95.3 90.3 86.6 81.9 79.4 76.9 75.5 74.7 74.4 74.1 74.5 75.5 76.6 77.6 77.9 77.8 78.7 80.5 80.9 81 80 77.9 75 70.8 66.3 60.4 58.3 57.5 56.7 59.3 65.8 70.7 75.5 79 81.1 82.4 83.6 84.6 85 85.5 85.2

As you can see, this form of data representation does not have any means to indicate roads, railways, water, built-up areas or forests.

For our virtual railway world in Trainz I prefer the term "geo data based" route building because there's more to it than just the DEM.

One of the key points is coordinates. Those coordinates allow us to combine DEMs with other maps, largely independent of origin, scale and even age (as long as not older than 100 or 120 years). This sort of mapping is called "geo-referencing". TransDEM tries to keep most of it under the hood. And online Map Tile Services or WMS help a lot, as the raster maps acquired this way already come with all necessary information.

 

[steamboateng]

Happy Thanksgiving Cascaderailroad. I have traded Skype info with you this a.m. I called a few minutes ago; give a call when get a chance. TransDEM is easier to talk about, than write about!

 

[clam1952]

Sounds like several weeks worth or reading, and months worth of cyphering, just to get a bunch of lines drawn on a 3D surface.

By the time I receive my masters degree in model rocketry science ... I should have a grasp on this Transdem program.

Lucky I wasn't JFK with the moon program: "Er Ahh, We choose not to go to the moon, not because it is too hard ... but because it is a completly stupid idear".

Hmm...
I bought Transdem a couple of weeks ago, took me less than 24 hours to work out how to basically do most things, I did the tutorial then just used the manual and this and Rolands forums and searched for what I wanted to do, pdf does have a search on it. Didn't need to actually read the whole lot.

So far I've done tests with UK's OS, USSGS, various maptile servers and mapservers, added dems, chopped bits off, made a few Google Earth baseboard maps. Duplicated what took me a year to do properly marking out a route with a Microdem / Hog, no Tiger Lines in the UK, in about half an hour............. No I'm not redoing 5 years worth of work as I've butchered the original microdem / hog mapfile.gnd to fix all the inaccuracies, Transdem together with the better dem's now available, is far more accurate and would have saved me a heck of a lot of manual carving!

Like 3ds or Blender Transdem is capable of a lot of things you might never need, so go look just for what you need to know.

 

[steamboateng]

Just got off Skype with Cascaderailroad..................he says it's a bright sunny summer day down there at Vostok. Got into a TransDEM discussion and cleared up a few issues..........I'm sure he'll be knocking out DEM's like a pro in a week or two. As I've mentioned before on these forums, the biggest problem with TransDEM is getting through the terminology.................the program itself is vey user friendly. Roland has put out an exceptional product.

Regards to all and a Happy Thanksgiving to all you US Trainzers feasting on turkey and football this fine day.......

 

[cascaderailroad]

Yes ... I learned so much today, that my head got all swolled up from too much brain input ... I learnt that Transdem makes a raw rainbow colored DEM, with no lines, ... and that I can cut the DEM down ... and that I can open adf files, and geo-reference stuff like raster, aster, dick dastardly maps into Transdem ... In a week or so I should have learnded so much, that NASA might hire me as a geo-physical rockit sientist.

I'm not giving up on this program ... I'm gonna learnded this Transdem whether it hurtz my bwain or not !

 

[cheechako]

I got my order quickly, did the tutorial easily enough, and was soon driving a very bumpy track on terrain that I downloaded from USGS with no difficulty at all. Of course, that is only the basics, but it went well!

What is the best reference or guide for the hard task of taking historical survey sketches (not geo-referenced) and creating raster images from them? I expect a lot of manual work and scale issues, but can I do a bunch of the work in TransDEM or will PS be my primary tool?

 

[steamboateng]

Probably the CIA will hire you before NASA. You're a long way from a space shot! And your right, you can do it..............................................................

 

[steamboateng]

In transDEM terms any raster sketches are irrelevant without specific geo data applied to them..........

 

[cheechako]

In transDEM terms any raster sketches are irrelevant without specific geo data applied to them..........

Ahem...

I am going through all the documentation, but can anyone recommend a reference or guide to turning old historical imagery into raster map data? I know there will be a lot of work involved - a lot of manipulation, scale issues, and manually geo-referencing the maps.

Geo-referencing is not magic. Somebody has added that information to the old maps that are geo-referenced. I'm asking for references to help me do that myself using TransDEM, or am I assuming too much of this software?

 

[steamboateng]

Georeferencing data must be part of the map data; either directly stated on the map via lat/long coordinates or UTM coordinates (whatever TransDEM will accept) or embedded in the map (re: geo pdf data or a mapping website data). With no data to reference the map specifically to a geographical location, it's no more than a sketch. Just think of how many gold mines are lost n the Sierra Nevada's 'cause those old maps didn't have a geographical reference!!!!!!!!!
If you're asking how to georeference a map with that data included in the map, I would take you back to what Geophil sated earlier...............read the documentation!

 

[cheechako]

Like I said, I am digging through the data. I think what I am trying to accomplish is this:

Grab DEM and other data as per TransDEM tutorials. Make a rough vector route. Now load the better data along this route.

However, the images I want to use are from old non-geo-tagged scans. I want to use these sketches and then tools to line up, stretch, and scale the images along with the route I laid out. This will not be precise; I realize that. I can try to enhance the historical scans I have so they show up better when everything finally gets into Trainz. If the scales are too far off, this may not work at all.

Is this possible in TransDEM? If not, would it be possible to somehow manipulate the resulting ground textures created by TransDEM in Photoshop to layer my historical data on top before I export all of this from TransDEM? I am going through the docs, but so far most seems to be about using GeoRef'd data or adding points to Google Earth.

Or, am I better off not mixing real elevation data with old sketches - just import the sketches and sculpt by hand?

 

[steamboateng]

Truth is.................well, you can take any old Rand McNally roadmap and stick it down as an overlay to your DEM...............all that is required is to have the geo-coordinates referenced in each corner of the map.
Your talking about adding your own geo-coordinates...................I suppose I can rip off a sheet of toilet paper from the bathroom roll; assign it four geographic coordinates, and overlay that to a DEM..............! Sure you can..............the program will accept it. Like all software; it's output is no better than its input. No hurt intended here..........just stating the facts.

 

[cheechako]

No. I'm asking about working with images that I may have to scale, stretch, rotate, and manipulate based on the route I draw in TransDEM. I cannot simply pick the four corners. From what I've read so far and from what you've said, perhaps the method to attempt is to follow the TransDEM instructions: draw rough route and then get raster maps along rough route, and then stop with TransDEM, go into PS to layer and fix (by hand) my historical sketches on to the TransDEM generated images, and then load it all back into TransDEM, clear the rough route and draw a better one, and then export it all to Trainz.

 

[Jerker]

G'day TheStan,

...that which you seek to do is most definitely possible in TransDEM...

...ALL 'standard' Raster type Topographic maps can be 'imported' into TransDEM (irrespective of their 'age') for normal processing by utilising the the MANUAL GEO-REFERENCING capabilities built into the program (you just need to to know one of two 'sets' of data related to the image). Firstly, If you know the co-ordinates of the corners of the raster map, then you can use the "Georeference with Map Corners only..." option from the Raster Map menu, enter the co-ordinates for the SW and NE corners and the job's done. If you don't know these but you know co-ordinates within the map - the map has a known grid overlay on it, for example, then you must use the more commonly used "Georeference..." option and proceed through the process to locate a minimum of four known points (along with their known co-ordinates) within the image. As you note, YOUR accuracy, here, is the important factor. These processes are all explained (step by step) in the excellent documentation...

Jerker {}

 

[steamboateng]

I think once you take TransDEM georeferenced maps out of the programs native language, ie try to convert to jpg etc, you will lose all geo data embedded in the image. However you can manipulate any map, add notes, illustrations; delete same, etc. any way you want, but you must georeference the map corners back to your DEM for it to be relevant.

 

[cheechako]

Thanks. I guess what I was looking to do is load in an image, see it in TransDEM layered with the vector route, and then have some basic image manipulation tools to line things up. But, as I am learning, I am looking to take on a lot of by-hand work, and PS is the tool for that, not TransDEM - at least not when my data so mixed and cannot simply be "four-cornered".

I guess I'm asking turn sketches into images that could be georeferenced - they are not in that state now. However, the nature of my sources means that I need to fix them in the middle of the process, and that poses some unique challenges I'll have to work out.

 

[steamboateng]

I suppose, simply stated; TransDEM is a geo-mapping tool..................not an image manipulation tool. I think we can agree on that Stan..........no?