Trainz Update Announcement (SP6)

[pware]

but for many users it became completely unplayable after the latest update

It is not unplayable for me or for a growing number of other posters in this thread. So, as @Paul_Bert posts above, is it the users setup, the routes they are using (e.g. <kuid2:214658:101010:1> Aylesbury to London Marylebone as described in my post #51 above), or what (the code included)? A recent update from Microsoft, who have hundreds of programmers, developers and countless beta testers (including all of us) got past all their checks and testing to create havoc for users with a particular SSD controller installed. I experienced similar events when I was managing a large computer network. The reality is that no amount of beta testing will ever pick up all the issues.

If you want an example of a Trainz release that was totally unplayable then go back to the initial release of T:ANE. That disaster, despite the claims of some posters here, has never been equalled, not even close, by the releases of TRS19, TRS22 and Trainz Plus and their various SPs.

 

[JCitron]

Another thought. It seems that some beta testers are not finding issues reported by others. Put me in that category of not having problems. So, the question is whether the problem is the program code or the user's system and setup.

Would it be feasible for those with a problem route/session to share this route with others to see if the issue exists on multiple systems. If it does than it most likely is a program coding issue. If other users do not experience the same issue, then a closer look on the user's computer configuration needs to be examined to determine why that user is experiencing the problem and others aren't.

There could be a small group of beta testers that "sign-up" for this part of the testing. It can be very frustrating if one person is having an in issue and others say everything is fine. The individual's computer is an unknow variable in both the Trainz setup configuration and the actual computer specifications. Its sort of like testing apples and oranges. It seems to me that this would more clearly isolate the problem for the programmers and the users.

That's an excellent idea. If the beta "team" could share and test problematic routes, that would bring the playing field down to one team instead of how things are now.

 

[pware]

3) The users are given the task of testing and reporting. Have them use specific steps to test specific things

I do not recall which version it was but N3V put out an extensive set of instructions for beta testers - the steps to use and the order in which to perform them. Basically it was a systematic and thorough walk through all the Surveyor tools. I followed those steps exactly and, as a result, I discovered the cause of a bug that had been widely discussed for at least a month. I was amazed that, despite the instructions being available long before I tried them, no-one else had clearly used them otherwise they too would probably have found the cause of the problem.

I suspect that a percentage of beta testers join to get access to the new features (exciting) and not to hunt for bugs (boring). Likewise I am always disappointed with the number of posters who complain about something, possibly a bug, in these forums but when you ask them if they have reported it, via the bug reporting system, the answer is no.

 

[JCitron]

I do not recall which version it was but N3V put out an extensive set of instructions for beta testers - the steps to use and the order in which to perform them. Basically it was a systematic and thorough walk through all the Surveyor tools. I followed those steps exactly and, as a result, I discovered the cause of a bug that had been widely discussed for at least a month. I was amazed that, despite the instructions being available long before I tried them, no-one else had clearly used them otherwise they too would probably have found the cause of the problem.

I suspect that a percentage of beta testers join to get access to the new features (exciting) and not to hunt for bugs (boring). Likewise I am always disappointed with the number of posters who complain about something, possibly a bug, in these forums but when you ask them if they have reported it, via the bug reporting system, the answer is no.

Yes, I remember that version as well but don't remember which one either. I also discovered the bug and reported it and got some good feedback too on it.

I agree, this is the bigger problem we have now with the public-only beta and not uncommon from what I've seen with other programs and games.

 

[bolivar]

I don't see what would be so difficult about going back to the old-fashioned way of testing.

1) Establish a dedicated beta-testing team by soliciting users who want to join just like they did with the Xbox version and previous versions of Trainz.

2) Have the users sign an NDA if necessary.

3) The users are given the task of testing and reporting. Have them use specific steps to test specific things, if necessary, as well as free test the new upcoming version.

4) After these beta-testers are satisfied with the quality of the new release, push the release on to public testing.

5) Public testing circulates around to allow various users with various computer systems to test the versions on until everything looks good.

6) Produce an RC version. Let users at it. If all is well...

7) Release the product.

What stops them? M O N E Y. Doing this the right way costs money.

Well, with this release, they have lost money due to having to redo and retest, come up with a hotfix or two, or three, and in the process, they have lost the goodwill of the community and added a nice brown smear on their faces from releasing the crap initially.

If I wasn't a longtime user of the product and purchased this version, I'd probably relegate it to the trash bin just like I've done with other programs in the past. Way too many actually to count.

John please stop proposing such intelligent and logical solutions like this!

 

[pware]

John please stop proposing such intelligent and logical solutions like this!

Yes, it takes away half the fun

 

[RBrooks]

Built-in Rule <kuid:-25:442> Display HTML Pages doesn't work properly anymore (build 131965 PC). Submitted a bug-report on this.

 

[pware]

Built-in Rule <kuid:-25:442> Display HTML Pages doesn't work properly anymore (build 131965 PC). Submitted a bug-report on this.

Good that you submitted a bug report. But this rule has been superseded by the Message Popup Rule

 

[RBrooks]

Good that you submitted a bug report. But this rule has been superseded by the Message Popup Rule

Yeah I also know there are alternate variations of the Rule, however I have dozens of sessions (which I shared with people) already made with the Display HTML Page rule, I'd like to not touch and update all of those....

 

[amigacooke]

Accept they could stop at the last BETA and they would be getting a Trainz plus benefit without paying extra like I am. Now you probably would say that is fine accept just because someone downloaded a BETA version does not mean they actually did any testing.

I’m so old school I think it’s a complete liberty that N3V expects you to pay for the grind of beta testing. Been there, done that (beta testing that is), didn’t get a tee shirt.

 

[amigacooke]

I suspect that a percentage of beta testers join to get access to the new features (exciting) and not to hunt for bugs (boring). Likewise I am always disappointed with the number of posters who complain about something, possibly a bug, in these forums but when you ask them if they have reported it, via the bug reporting system, the answer is no.

I’m always disappointed by the expectation that paying customers need to be unpaid bug testers.

 

[pware]

I think it’s a complete liberty that N3V expects you to pay for the grind of beta testing. Been there, done it (beta testing that is), didn’t get a tee shirt.

Where does it state that if you are using Trainz Plus (or TRS22) then you have to be a beta tester? Users have to choose to download and run a beta version - I have only ever come across one user who installed the beta by mistake who then started complaining in the forums about the Assertion messages. I have never received a T-shirt either after all my years of being a willing (and bug reporting) beta tester but I never expected one anyway.

I’m always disappointed by the expectation that paying customers need to be unpaid bug testers.

Welcome to the world of software development. The same can be said of any software, commercial or freeware, that you install. If you installed the recent Windows Update KB5063878 then you are a fully certified member of the MS bug club.

As I have posted many, many times in these forums, it is impossible to create any software beyond the trivial "Hello World" level that is guaranteed to be bug free. In the "wild", where us users live, is where there are computers with the greatest range of installed hardware, drivers, software, configuration settings, and who-knows-what-else. Far more than could ever be tested in the lab or with a group of dedicated beta testers. It is in the "wild" that many of these bugs will surface - not under laboratory conditions.

You could argue that MS should have tested KB5063878 on systems with Phison SSD controllers that run massive file transfer operations but that argument leads to the absurdity of having to test it on every possible hardware and software configuration that exists - in which case the update (or any update or software package) would never be released.

 

[Sanek17]

I wonder if the developers themselves played their game? And what kind of super-duper computers do they have?

 

[amigacooke]

Welcome to the world of software development.

I can’t help feeling that when developers didn’t have a no cost, easy, global means of distribution, they were considerably more careful with their release candidates.

 

[pware]

I wonder if the developers themselves played their game? And what kind of super-duper computers do they have?

That was certainly the case in the early days of Auran when the "Brew Crew" was around. Today you can be lucky to get a full time programmer who is an enthusiast on the particular game being developed - like a chocolate lover working in a chocolate factory, no doubt a "dream job" for some.

If the developers are contractors working from home using their own computers (not unusual these days) then they would probably have roughly the same types of systems that we have. Not necessarily the fastest and most sophisticated machines. But N3V is a small operation, how many different computers would they need (or be able to afford) to be able to test their product on all possible machines?

I have 4 different machines that I use to test Trainz (GPU characteristics listed in my signature below) ranging from 3 yrs old to "ancient". The SP6 update runs perfectly on all 4.

 

[passanger]

It is not unplayable for me or for a growing number of other posters in this thread.

But it is unplayable for me and many other users. It was more or less fine in SP5. Now it's a slide-show, but not a game. New "lods system" makes object blink in 800 meters instead of complete revealing or disappearing. Some rules stopped working and plenty of other issues.
I can see such feedback through many channels. In the same time, NO communication has been provided since release by N3V. They act like everything goes it should go.

 

[HPL]

I wonder if the developers themselves played their game?

The answer is: no. A relevant example: the current "new" map (mostly unusable, especially in yards).

 

[gigigerosa]

Quale processore Intel? Io ho un 12400F, quindi mi chiedevo quale sia il tuo.

Intel Core i9 8 core da 3,6 GHz

 

[Sanek17]

The SP6 update runs perfectly on all 4.

Very interesting, but for some reason after the SP6 update everything lags and freezes on my i9-13980 and RTX4070

 

[paulper]

It is not unplayable for me or for a growing number of other posters in this thread. So, as @Paul_Bert posts above, is it the users setup, the routes they are using (e.g. <kuid2:214658:101010:1> Aylesbury to London Marylebone as described in my post #51 above), or what (the code included)?

I'm very pleased for you that you haven't experienced any issues but I certainly don't get the impression that there is a growing list of people unaffected. SP6 was officially released less than 2 days ago and we're almost on page 6 of follow-up comments. You will know more than anyone that that is not indicative of a successful update.

I tested the RC. Submitted bug reports, exchanged emails with QA, but what was the point? The RC build was released without change.

I don't understand the groans about people not submitting bug reports when those that do don't appear to have made a difference.

Now, not to my surprise (see my post #2), there are plenty more experiencing what I did last week when it was at the RC stage.

Why was there a rush to get SP6 out?