Trainz "Next" is announced...

Maybe Peter. Under those circumstances I might just be inclined to skip the next version and spend a bunch of money on DLC and First class tickets, but sooner or later a new version would have me reaching for my wallet. There will always be graphics and physics enhancements to be had even if the core product had every possible feature, zero bugs and was 100% stable.

Stuart
 
I don't believe they have been flamed anywhere by anyone for announcing their plans in advance. They have however, had some very negative responses to those plans. :)
Exactly!
On these forums lately, if you say anything negative about T:ANE or this new one, no matter how concise, civil or valid the point, it seems to be called flaming or moaning, which isn't constructive at all.

Whenever there's a change or a thought about something new on the horizon even if it's two years from now, the community will go into full speculation and panic as though the world is about to end. :)
Have to disagree with you here John.

T:ANE had some unpopular aspects, such as DRM and the overdrive your hardware went into, and this caused people to worry about purchasing T:ANE. But looking back through the old posts when T:ANE was first announced, most features were what people wanted, and most people were excited by the prospect of what was to come.

And if you go back to 1.3 when Trainzscript was first being introduced, there were some people who were concerned about not being able to program, but most could see the potential a scripting language had for a Trainsim.
Again, when Rules and Commands were introduced, most people were excited by what could be created, especially by non-programmers.
Both were indeed huge milestones for Trainz.

But this latest feature-set seems to be something that might be good for N3V, but not something many people want.
The thought of a subscription-based Trainsim doesn't seem to have gone down too well, and the though that someone who doesn't want to build with others would still have to subscribe if they want to use routes created this way just adds to the concern.

Sure, it's a way off yet, and it's too early to see what they eventually implement, but T:ANE wasn't the greatest advertisement for trusting Tony, and I don't think people's genuine concerns about what they'll "really" be getting should be dismissed so easily.

As usual, this N3V pattern of releasing vague information causes fractures in the community.

Can people "opt-out" of this online surveyor and use the rest of Trainz Next for a one-off price?
Are they going to be forced to subscribe if they want to use the next version of Trainz?
Are they really going to have to subscribe if they want to use routes created online?

Maybe I'm alone in this thinking, and I'm sure not anywhere near as knowledgeable on railways as the majority of the people here, but for me, a Train Simulation should first and foremost be simulating the operations of a railway, and everything that involves.
It's clear when N3V sit around their table in the boardroom, the discussion isn't about realistic signalling or coupler strain or anything that gives a feeling of really driving a heavy train.
It's all about flash and bang graphics and the next gimmick or novelty they can come up with.
It's hard not to be worried about the direction Trainz is going when the latest feature seems to be aimed at such a small percentage of users.

Seriously, I'm just looking for a Train Sim that I can enjoy, without worrying about whether I'm online, or if I've remembered to renew my subscription.

While all the current companies making Trainsims are going down the DLC/DRM and now subscription path, maybe it's time for a new company to pop up and make a trainsim like Trainz used to be.
Something you can just boot up and have fun with.
Those people I would give plenty of my hard-earned to, no problem.

Smiley.
 
The day you purchase "the one you have been waiting for" is the day you will purchase your last version, and miss out on the improvements and new ideas that will come with the next version.

Yep! :wave:

Kind Regards
Ish
 
I don't get it, first you state, like it was a fact"
But this latest feature-set seems to be something that might be good for N3V, but not something many people want.
The thought of a subscription-based Trainsim doesn't seem to have gone down too well, and the though that someone who doesn't want to build with others would still have to subscribe if they want to use routes created this way just adds to the concern.
then you ask if
Can people "opt-out" of this online surveyor and use the rest of Trainz Next for a one-off price?
Are they going to be forced to subscribe if they want to use the next version of Trainz?
Are they really going to have to subscribe if they want to use routes created online?
The way I read it, subscriptions are one more payment option, beside the current pay up front. Obviously for this to be even halfway attractive, it would have to be relatively inexpensive or why bother. I think it has already been stated that when a route created by this collaboration method is uploaded to the DLS, it can be used just like any other route that is shared today. It is the creation method that is being enhanced.
It's all about flash and bang graphics and the next gimmick or novelty they can come up with.
Just about all the new features that users have be clamoring for since the start of Trainz fall into that category, nothing new there.
Seriously, I'm just looking for a Train Sim that I can enjoy, without worrying about whether I'm online, or if I've remembered to renew my subscription.
...
If you have the non-DRM version, you don't have to be online either.
 
Rather than edit my post from earlier, I'll just add a fresh thought.

Having followed this thread from the get go, I will say that because it's the end user/consumer point of view that spins thoughts about these features. I'm going to bite the crow and say I may have commented too soon in being apprehensive about it. My current stand will change to "riding the fence listening to both sides and actually making informed decision when the day arrives" vs being a premature @$$ in my decision and shooting my opinion without enough proper facts.

Let's just see where this really goes from here.
 
Will the "NEXT" Trainz have more of the same like:

-incompatibility with Jet-created (TS12-earlier) routes?
-the
Radio-Flyer-little-red-wagon-load-of-Craftsman-open-end-wrenches-dragged-down-the track-ties sound?
-sensitivity to route modification of the work done by others?
-require a million-dollar "supercomputer" to eliminate frame/sound stutter?
-an in-cab camera view that will make me sea sick?
-no option to
Try Before You Buy?
 
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There should be no gimmicks, but for the player to experience the sights and sounds of real-world railroading as much as possible while seated in front of the PC monitor.

What if they could even put the diesel-smoke SMELL on Trainz?:hehe:

In the automated road traffic carz, I would surely appreciate some classic American
cars as well as some semi trucks and Greyhound buses rolling down YARN highways.

With even people and dog figures inside these cars, trucks and buses.

It is just these insipid little Euro cars for Traffic.
 
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I will say that because it's the end user/consumer point of view that spins thoughts about these features. I'm going to bite the crow and say I may have commented too soon in being apprehensive about it. My current stand will change to "riding the fence listening to both sides and actually making informed decision when the day arrives" vs being a premature @$$ in my decision and shooting my opinion without enough proper facts.

Let's just see where this really goes from here.

Good Morning Sir --

That's my point all along ... folks overblowing a general announcement, without all of the details how it's all going to go, etc !

Let's sit, wait, and see what happens by year's end when we get more detail!

============================

General Speaking,
In the meantime, get a hair cut, drink some tea, and chill-out! :wave:

Regards
Ish
 
Here is what your diagram should look like seeing as your game relies entirely upon content creator support.
2b55a3fd7714924fead391cbcb3397c8.jpg
 
Possibly, but its a "no win" situation. In the past N3V were flamed in these forums when they kept quiet about their plans. Now they are being flamed for announcing their plans well in advance.

Perhaps it is a case of taking the flak now and hoping that things calm down closer to the release when the idea has more "meat on its bones". But, there will always be people who will never be happy with change or new ideas. Fortunately, these people do not run companies.

It's more the timing of this particular release. It took so long to get SP1 out amid much angst and hand wringing, then right on top of it, the announcement was made of the next thing. It made it almost seem like it was "OK here's your bone, now we are moving on"

Communication is important, of course but timing of that communication is also important. What was to be gained by making that announcement at that time, especially when it contained nothing but a vague reference? It put people on edge which was only compounded when this weeks announcement was made.
 
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The fact that we are spending time discussing a new version of Trainz while TANE is far from complete feels like a slap in the face and a kick in the balls to me.

Where's all the discussion from NV3 leadership keeping us engaged about SP2 and SP3 for TANE?
 
If you have the non-DRM version, you don't have to be online either.
IF.
Is the DRM-free version of T:ANE available to buy right now?
Genuine question.

It is the creation method that is being enhanced.
And there's nothing wrong with that, if people want to participate in route-building that way.
That's not the "feature" that's bothering me, or others the most, so it seems.
It's the subscription model, and the fact that you can't use the routes created that way unless you subscribe.
I did read that, didn't I?
Again, genuine question.

But the real nub is this, which you didn't quote me on:
"As usual, this N3V pattern of releasing vague information causes fractures in the community."
Can you deny this is true?

Brian.
 
IF.
Is the DRM-free version of T:ANE available to buy right now?
Genuine question.

I don't believe so, in order to have a DRM-free version you had to have bought the DRM-free one via the Kickstarter or for a brief, accidental, period in the Simulator Central store.

peter
 
It's the subscription model, and the fact that you can't use the routes created that way unless you subscribe.
I did read that, didn't I?
Again, genuine question.

I asked that question upthread and was told by Chris(WindWlker) that if the owner of the route decides to put it on the DLS then anyone can use it whether they subscribe or not. If not then you will have to be a subscriber to access and drive on it.
 
I asked that question upthread and was told by Chris(WindWlker) that if the owner of the route decides to put it on the DLS then anyone can use it whether they subscribe or not. If not then you will have to be a subscriber to access and drive on it.


That's stupid as hell, because screw uploading anything to the DLS and throwing your rights away. Plus, it will cause the DLS to be filled with a bunch of incomplete routes so that people can help build.
 
Good Morning Sir --

That's my point all along ... folks overblowing a general announcement, without all of the details how it's all going to go, etc !

Let's sit, wait, and see what happens by year's end when we get more detail!

============================

General Speaking,
In the meantime, get a hair cut, drink some tea, and chill-out! :wave:

Regards
Ish

The fact that we are spending time discussing a new version of Trainz while TANE is far from complete feels like a slap in the face and a kick in the balls to me.

Where's all the discussion from NV3 leadership keeping us engaged about SP2 and SP3 for TANE?

Two LONG time members, both well respected, with valid arguments ... but both still short sighted.

The answer is in a Talking Heads lyric, "it's the same as it ever was". N3V have been throwing bones and moving on to the next great thing without finishing the first for a VERY long time ...You've all seen it with your own eyes, and still refuse to believe it.

I say we file a Class Action lawsuit against N3V for their numerous breaches of contract, including the Kickstarter campaign. (fwiw, there are several cases in Pennsylvania Courts right now on this same subject of Kickstarter campaigns failing to deliver, and being found guilty of Fraud).
--ancillary to this, a Class Action for failing to uphold their own policy on DLS access, both free and paid, but paid especially.

Secondly, I saw we ban together, crowd fund the legal costs, and sue to have "unsupported" versions of Trainz brought in to the public domain, where someone with some skill can finally complete TS2010 and TS12 to their fullest potential.

Last, but not least; I told you so.
 
I asked that question upthread and was told by Chris(WindWlker) that if the owner of the route decides to put it on the DLS then anyone can use it whether they subscribe or not. If not then you will have to be a subscriber to access and drive on it.

I think you have misread the answer given by Chris.

Without getting into too many technicalities- if you aren't participating in the online community, then you can't drive or edit the online routes, but there's nothing stopping the owner from uploading a version of the route to the DLS (regardless of whether it was created online or offline.)

The bold emphasis is mine. The "online community" he was referring to is the group of users (subscribers and outright owners) who have been been given access (view or edit) to the route by the original route creator. If that creator later decides to put the group effort route onto the DLS then it would be available for everyone to download and use whether they are subscribers or outright owners of TANE NEXT (or whatever it is called).
 
I believe that's what I said

I asked that question upthread and was told by Chris(WindWlker) that if the owner of the route decides to put it on the DLS then anyone can use it whether they subscribe or not.
 
Thank you for that reply, but it was the second part of your original post that I was concerned about.

"If not then you will have to be a subscriber to access and drive on it"
 
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