Trainz Classics 3rd Edition "Settle-Carlisle"

[Vern]

So TC 3 is focussed on British steam. Mark me up as another potential sale.

Is there any indication of when this is due to be published?

They are rather compelling.

Mind the 37's look good and if there's a 40 or 45 in the final pack - yegods!

The irony of course then is that I really would be torn between building any future routes in TRS2004 or moving to TC3 just to have such a varied selection of UK motive power available by default.

 

[amigacooke]

The irony of course then is that I really would be torn between building any future routes in TRS2004 or moving to TC3 just to have such a varied selection of UK motive power available by default.

Well CMP isn't as bad as it's painted once you get it working.

 

[BidMod]

Hi all,

Apologies if the following doesn't appear very congruent - I just wanted to get my thoughts posted

I've noticed a few people comparing this to the MSTS version of the route - it should be stressed that the MSTS version does not have correct trackwork at Carlisle (even allowing for the changes over the years) and should not really be compared to this new Trainz version. That said it is fun to drive - just not accurate.

Anyway - I like the look of this new route and I'll probably get a copy. Big thanks to the Rail Sim team.

Does anyone think the shunter mystery loco looks a little like a L&Y pug (or something about the same size)?

Personally, I think the S&C runs through some of the best scenery in Britain (compare it to the WCML through highly industrialized areas, for example), and this is MS's failing, giving people a false impression about Cumbria and North West Yorkshire (the best scenery is on the Ravenglass 15" line, but that's a subject for elsewhere). I don't think it's desolate - just a bit remote in places

The only problem will be the legacy issues As said - CMP is fine when you've figured it out. I might just run '06 and TC3 side by side.

Mike - how does the AI manage the Carlisle throat? Is it simplified at all?

Regards,
BidMod.

 

[Mike10]

However the pack is of interest to me for the content not the TC concept. That remains, IMHO, how this project should have been approached so the route and content could either be run standalone or added into TRS2006 in a similar manner to the West Somerset Railway along with any patches to the core programme, rather than the mish mash we are getting.

But those who install it into '06 won't get the new features unless it is also patched, as somewhat in-exact science it would seem. This way you get the pack contents on a clean, updated codebase. You can copy the '06 content that you want over into your new TC install and have your old favourited running on the new code.

Now that, to me, is the best of both worlds.

Mike.

 

[Mike10]

It seems that those guys who said TC will be something like selling Service Packs were right. I'm not against the new principle in general, it was time to get rid of all the build-in content and to offer such specialised editions.
But now we will face more and more problems. When TC was announced Auran told us something like "Well, if someone doesn't like a certain edition there will be no need to buy it." That would be no problem if not every new TC brings new features that are not implemented in older versions.

Or, look at it this way....

Say you weren't interested in the updates, features, or routes and content in packs 1,2,3,4 and decided not to buy them. Then along comes TC5 and it's your favourite route and it has some cool new features you want. When you buy it you will get all the fixes and new features in packs 1,2,3,4 for free!! Now that is a bargain

Mike.

 

[Mike10]

However the route sounds interesting, although as was mentioned previously by euphod it is a bleak and desolate part of our country, I would have thought that a winter version might have offered a bit more enjoyment IMHO..

I'd say beautiful rather than desolate myself.

There should be some pictures on the website soon (can't guarantee when though ATM) so you can get a better idea of the country the route runs through.

Mike.

 

[Mike10]

Mike - how does the AI manage the Carlisle throat? Is it simplified at all?

Two questions, two sort of non-answers I'm afraid.

Not my department, getting the AI to behave

How simplified was the track on Hawes Junction?

Mike.

 

[BidMod]

How simplified was the track on Hawes Junction

I couldn't comment about that, because I don't know what the track should look like, but since I would consider MS's Miss-Out-Most-Of-The-Crossovers-'Cos-We-Can't-Be-Bothered aproach as simplistic I would assume that the Hawes Junction is accurate. I did find that I could perform movements I expected to be able to happen though, so somethings clearly right with it

I only ask because all of my attempts at creating Carlisle Station have resulted in the AI just sitting outside looking confused, and occasionally seeing DRS movements ending in Platform 2 (I couldn't work out or understand why either). I suppose at least MSTS simple version works better than my attempts.

If it's all to the standard of Hawes Jct. I'll be impressed and very happy though, even if the throat is a little simplified. Just don't cut too much out
BidMod.

 

[meridious]

Or, look at it this way....

Say you weren't interested in the updates, features, or routes and content in packs 1,2,3,4 and decided not to buy them. Then along comes TC5 and it's your favourite route and it has some cool new features you want. When you buy it you will get all the fixes and new features in packs 1,2,3,4 for free!! Now that is a bargain

Mike.

But what you won't get is built in content from previous versions which will be needed when someone creates a route from previous versions. the buyer of version 5 only is then forced to purchase the previous versions in order to run said route. Where exactly is the bargain ?

 

[Mike10]

But what you won't get is built in content from previous versions which will be needed when someone creates a route from previous versions. the buyer of version 5 only is then forced to purchase the previous versions in order to run said route. Where exactly is the bargain ?

I didn't say it was a perfect bargain

Lets look a little deeper beyond the initial negativity of the situation though.

I suspect we may be seeing routes labelled with which pack's content they use. Given that each pack has content from a specific area that does actually make some sense. Why do I need the palm trees and such like from the Australian route pack if I'm making a route across the Rockies using the Canadian pack's content.

We may see, for example.

"Route requires: TC1 content only"
"Route requires: TRS2006, TC1 & some DLS content"
"Route requires: TC1 & TC3 content only"
"Route requires: TC1,TC3 & some DLS content"
etc etc

By the time we get to the 5th or 6th Classics release what do you think the going rate for TC1 and 2 will be. I'll wager picking up that content won't be a major fiscal planning exercise.

I don't think there is anything I'd use from either TC1 or TC2 if I were creating a UK route. I may use some TRS2006 content (not exactly expensive now and a lot of it was DLS stuff that got included in the box so can be obtained from the DLS still) or DLS stuff to top up what's in the box though.

It works for me, but (as you know) I am annoyingly postive in my outlook.

Mike.

 

[DaveW]

Hi,
An interesting web site:-

http://www.settle-carlisle.co.uk/

DaveW

 

[Paulsw2]

Hello Vern, reading what Lance has printed and what is on the UKRailSim website, I would hazard a guess that the mystery diesel loco's will be 2 Class 40's similar to the built-in ones on TRS. One with a centre headcode box and the other with split boxes, both in green livery like the Class 37's. :hehe:

SDark's class 40s were not built-in as far as I'm aware and, while they're perfectly nice models in themselves, they're a bit long in the tooth now compared with the best and latest TRS locos IMHO. For this to be a credible TC release, I assume we will be getting brand new class 40s (if that's what the 'mystery' diesel is.)

It looks as though the mystery large steam loco is a 9F. I recall that LieLestoSbrat has been developing both a 9F AND a class 40. Now that's an interesting coincidence!

 

[amigacooke]

But what you won't get is built in content from previous versions which will be needed when someone creates a route from previous versions. the buyer of version 5 only is then forced to purchase the previous versions in order to run said route. Where exactly is the bargain ?

It makes previous versions of TC like payware then. If you want to run a route that includes payware, you have to cough up. Is that really unreasonable?

 

[BidMod]

I've been thinking more about this shunter - could it be a Drummond [sp?] locomotive? I wouldn't expect so in this era, but it has the right profile.

 

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

So far there has been a depressing lack of suggestions as to what people would like to see.

Yeah, my railbus (Class 141) added to one of the sessions, since it would look reasonably authentic in that scenario, even if its a 1980s unit!

EDIT: If you are wondering why that suggestion was brought about, thats because none of the team, actually considered any sort of Multiple Units that would of ran on the line anyway, therefore, doesn't count as satisfying the needs for all diesel fans!
If Class 37s are included (and they were built later than most 101s!), why are you denying us to the DMMUs as well? After all, the 37s were part of BR's modernisation plan, so were the DMMUs, which deserve the same recongition in history, as they did reduce the operating costs of all branch lines, thus saved some from complete closure.

 

[Joe_T]

Yeah, my railbus (Class 141) added to one of the sessions, since it would look reasonably authentic in that scenario, even if its a 1980s unit!

EDIT: If you are wondering why that suggestion was brought about, thats because none of the team, actually considered any sort of Multiple Units that would of ran on the line anyway, therefore, doesn't count as satisfying the needs for all diesel fans!
If Class 37s are included (and they were built later than most 101s!), why are you denying us to the DMMUs as well? After all, the 37s were part of BR's modernisation plan, so were the DMMUs, which deserve the same recongition in history, as they did reduce the operating costs of all branch lines, thus saved some from complete closure.

I agree with wen on this. Not just auran but all of the railsims MSTS didn't have 1 english DMU/EMU in it. Auran didn't think about building one. Not seen one in Kuju (which I will be buying and will prob move over to till Auran start listening to the loyal customers). I don't know why 1st gen DMU's are so hostrasised by a lot of the rail comunity they did a great deal for our network like keeping alot of branch lines open.

 

[ex-railwayman]

SDark's class 40s were not built-in as far as I'm aware and, while they're perfectly nice models in themselves, they're a bit long in the tooth now compared with the best and latest TRS locos IMHO. For this to be a credible TC release, I assume we will be getting brand new class 40s (if that's what the 'mystery' diesel is.)
It looks as though the mystery large steam loco is a 9F. I recall that LieLestoSbrat has been developing both a 9F AND a class 40. Now that's an interesting coincidence!

Hello Paul, yes, you are perfectly correct in spotting the deliberate mistake :hehe: . I meant to mean "similar to the built-in Class 37's" not the Class 40's as they are indeed on the DLS, my apologies.
You may be correct with your assumption regarding LieLestoSbrat's locomotives, and his quality of work would be a huge bonus if that is the case. Of course I am personally completely biased in suggesting that the "mystery" diesel will be a Class 40, but as the scene is set in the late 1950's to early 1960's, and this class of loco was abundant in this area to work both freight and passenger trips, I cannot think what other large locomotive it could possibly be judging by the large-shaped, bulbous nosed, blacked out locomotive photograph on UKSim's website.
I suppose it will be a case of "wait and see until the game comes out" scenario.


Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

 

[SHP]

@Mike10: Do you believe every route builder to be aware of such things or even better not to use TC content?

In general, I just cannot see any appropriate answer Auran has presented (yet) how to compete with KRS or MSTS2. Of course we know the advantages of Trainz but the potential user who enters a shop might not. "Trainz? Old stuff. Hey, what's that? RailSimulator, it's new. Have to buy it." If the TC concept stays I cannot see too many current Trainzers to stay with Trainz. Would you like to buy a new edition every 2-3 months only to be up-to-date? In the past we learnt this to be substantial as you can fix a lot of TRS2006 content to run in TRS2004 but you cannot download it. So, what to do in future? Wait 5 editions until an interesting TC is published? (OK, if Auran continues to update the DLS that fast, this problem will not occur too early.)
Well, we will have to wait and see ...

Be warned, the following section contains speculation!

By the way, this TC might be the first one I consider worth buying. But I'm rather interested in modern UK railways. Therefore I would not really want TC3. What about TC4? It could be something like "Melbourne suburbans", followed by TC5 "Steam dreams in California". Next one to be "The Gotthard route". Wow! But only a few weeks after the next release makes my TC6 out-dated. Something to look forward to?

However, let's hope TC3 will be outstanding (and the last TC ). Good luck to all who are involved.

 

[LieLestoSbrat]

To me, as a steam man, and further more in many ways a UK steam man, this new release sounds right up my street. For one the new option/features (what ever you want to call them) sound great, and I could see myself moving over to this new version. One thing many steam loco devotes have been calling for is improvements to the physics and it sounds as if this release will be offering those. Other improvements to the steam engine sound great, and again I will be hoping for a system that at least support 2,3 and 4cyl engines. On the 4cyl front I'm hoping for a system that will support locos with the cranks set like the SR Lord Nelson class of locos (forgot the crank settings :S), as of course for 4cyl locos with the cranks set at 90 degrees, you can use the 2cyl sound system. Other features I'm also interesting in the steam arena are the new particle effects system. I'm very intrigued as to what these could be, or whether it is an improvement on the Twinkles effects system. The item that I'm looking forward to is the development and improvement of the Trainz signalling system to what seems to support realistic semaphore and block arrangements. I feel this on a whole will be one of the greatest features of this new release as it will benefit many people regardless of whether they are interested in either UK railways or steam locos. Another small bonus for me as well is the route chosen, While being a Midland route (LNER/eastern region man myself ) The S&C was used rather allot for performance trials of many classes of locos, and this of course will help me in creating accurate enginespecs for UK steam locos.

Rob

 

[DaveW]

Exactly my sentiments, LieLestoSbrat

Another interesting site, with photos of the terrain :-

http://www.visitcumbria.com/carlset/index.htm

DaveW