Train Simulator 2013 - Railsim.

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Hi Djt, I am involved with a company that provides training to commercial flight crews. You are correct that top end sims are used for exam purposes, for our company anyway. Currently, since 2005, we have part qualified CP's using Microsoft's Flight Sim software in addition to real time logged flight time. We don't have military aircraft of any consequence here in Ireland so can't comment on it's suitability for military certification, but at commercial level it is recognized - Indeed if you pass certain in - sim Microsoft quals, it reduces your required air hours in real life, up to as much as 16 hours towards CP grade.Such quals are certified by Microsoft. That is not much I know, but it demonstrates the respect given to sim software in relation to real life, real time flight. Google flight sims Ireland, you might find us - I cant put a commercial link up here in case I was found in breach of something.


I had three American Airline pilots that took early retirement/buyouts come through one of my new hire training classes back in 2005.

The subject of training simulators came up and from what they told me even MS FS at the time had much better graphics (which are more demanding on system resources) then what they experienced during their training. Of course the flight model was a lot better than what you’d see from MS FS (along with a full cockpit and motion) but even today’s consumer CPU’s are capable of running an accurate flight model along with simulating avionics.
 
Bob, you just cant help yourself can you? Read my post again. And if you owned the last Microsoft Sim, you would know that users passing the grades withing the sim can receive a certificate from Microsoft. As I said in my post above, our company recognizes those certs, and allow a reduction of up-to 16 hours of the required total hours flying time. No where in my post did I say Microsoft themselves certify Commercial Pilots.The quals certified by Microsoft are given when you attain certain grades within the sim. When you do, you are sent a link where you can download the cert.It is that cert we recognize.Oh, and Bob, our pilots are not crop dusters either, they are the real deal, heck next time you take a commercial flight, I might be on the deck, maybe even one of our graduates. Man I would even buy you a drink and shake your hand! But knowing your form, you would throw a hissy fit and want to get off!

Chances that you may well sit in the cabin of a domestic US flight with me at the controls are probable. We have a relief pilot office at Hartsfield Jackson.
 
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Bob, I am going to be generous here, New Year and all that. I will wave a peace flag with you out the cockpit fly window.

I was in New Jersey in August, to buy a cockpit for conversion. It is almost ready and we will be launching it in June of this year. If you ever come to Ireland, I will give you 3 hours flight time in it, free gratis, as I know your a pilot. Consider it a peace offering but a genuine one.

This is a piece from it's brochure:
[h=2]Our B 737 - 800 NG flight simulator is constructed using the cockpit section of C-GAPW, an ex Canadian Airline Boeing 737. [/h]
 
I had three American Airline pilots that took early retirement/buyouts come through one of my new hire training classes back in 2005.

The subject of training simulators came up and from what they told me even MS FS at the time had much better graphics (which are more demanding on system resources) then what they experienced during their training. Of course the flight model was a lot better than what you’d see from MS FS (along with a full cockpit and motion) but even today’s consumer CPU’s are capable of running an accurate flight model along with simulating avionics.

There was never any focus on graphics in airliner simulators, The focus was on replicating the cockpit environment to be an exact duplicate of the actual aircraft that the pilot was training on. The seat material, the tactile feel of the switches in the cockpit and pressure required to activate them, the sounds, the motion if it was a level D sim, everything had to be exactly right. The flight dynamics in the sim are created by data taken from test flights at the aircraft manufacturer, like Boeing. They look at the data during actual flight conditions, and pick the data from the average aircraft , out of all the samples they have, and that becomes the physics of the particular simulator they are programming. That is how they can program a scenario into the simulator, of an emergency, and the sim will react exactly as the real aircraft would in the exact same situation.

The computer that runs the motion part of the simulator, which costs about 1 1/2 million dollars by itself, has to be controlled by some of the main sim computers which are contained in several cabinets in back of the simulator cockpit which are about 6 feet high, by 3 feet wide and deep. It's motion has to create the illusion of acceleration, pitch ,climbing, descending, yaw, and roll and all combinations of these conditions of flight, so that the pilot is totally immersed in the sensation of flying the actual aircraft. When you apply takeoff thrust, you will be pushed back into your seat as you would in the real aircraft. If you abort the takeoff, and you don't have your seatbelt on, your will be thrown out of your seat and hurled against the front of the instrument panel, which you don't want to have happen. As you taxi to the active runway, you can even feel the bumps in the taxiway which are programmed into the sim software.

I flew a Delta 767-400 ER sim in Atlanta, and the graphics showed the airport, the interstates that go by the airport, the Marta Train, that runs into the airport, and the ramps and taxiways. There is no scenery as you would see in Trainz or FSX, because that is not important to the training pilot. What is important is the cockpit environment, the avionics, the behavior of the aircraft, the navaids, the lighting, especially the approach lights in instrument approaches, as well as weather generation. When you land one of the sims in a 200 foot ceiling with 1/4 mile visibility, it must be exactly as you would see out of the windscreen in a real aircraft making the same approach at the same airport under the same conditions.

When the airline receives this simulator from a company like CAE, which makes about 90% of the airline sims in the world, it has to go though an acceptance flight by the FAA just as a real aircraft would. If the FAA examiner feels that there is something not quite right with the sim he is checking out, he will not sign off on it, and the Airline will not give the sim company a payment for the sim. Without FAA acceptance, it is a 20 million dollar Nintendo game, as far as the airline is concerned. All of the training the pilot gets before he or she carries passengers is done in these simulators, all of it.

This is what it is like if you would like to learn something about this type of sim, which is made by CAE. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8JUWUKXV08


The idea of doing this type of simulation using a PC, is just ludicrous.
 
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There was never any focus on graphics in airliner simulators, The focus was on replicating the cockpit environment to be an exact duplicate of the actual aircraft that the pilot was training on. The seat material, the tactile feel of the switches in the cockpit and pressure required to activate them, the sounds, the motion if it was a level D sim, everything had to be exactly right. The flight dynamics in the sim are created by data taken from test flights at the aircraft manufacturer, like Boeing. They look at the data during actual flight conditions, and pick the data from the average aircraft , out of all the samples they have, and that becomes the physics of the particular simulator they are programming. That is how they can program a scenario into the simulator, of an emergency, and the sim will react exactly as the real aircraft would in the exact same situation.

The computer that runs the motion part of the simulator, which costs about 1 1/2 million dollars by itself, has to be controlled by some of the main sim computers which are contained in several cabinets in back of the simulator cockpit which are about 6 feet high, by 3 feet wide and deep. It's motion has to create the illusion of acceleration, pitch ,climbing, descending, yaw, and roll and all combinations of these conditions of flight, so that the pilot is totally immersed in the sensation of flying the actual aircraft. When you apply takeoff thrust, you will be pushed back into your seat as you would in the real aircraft. If you abort the takeoff, and you don't have your seatbelt on, your will be thrown out of your seat and hurled against the front of the instrument panel, which you don't want to have happen. As you taxi to the active runway, you can even feel the bumps in the taxiway which are programmed into the sim software.

I flew a Delta 767-400 ER sim in Atlanta, and the graphics showed the airport, the interstates that go by the airport, the Marta Train, that runs into the airport, and the ramps and taxiways. There is no scenery as you would see in Trainz or FSX, because that is not important to the training pilot. What is important is the cockpit environment, the avionics, the behavior of the aircraft, the navaids, the lighting, especially the approach lights in instrument approaches, as well as weather generation. When you land one of the sims in a 200 foot ceiling with 1/4 mile visibility, it must be exactly as you would see out of the windscreen in a real aircraft making the same approach at the same airport under the same conditions.

When the airline receives this simulator from a company like CAE, which makes about 90% of the airline sims in the world, it has to go though an acceptance flight by the FAA just as a real aircraft would. If the FAA examiner feels that there is something not quite right with the sim he is checking out, he will not sign off on it, and the Airline will not give the sim company a payment for the sim. Without FAA acceptance, it is a 20 million dollar Nintendo game, as far as the airline is concerned. All of the training the pilot gets before he or she carries passengers is done in these simulators, all of it.

This is what it is like if you would like to learn something about this type of sim, which is made by CAE. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8JUWUKXV08


The idea of doing this type of simulation using a PC, is just ludicrous.



Robert, nothing that you mention above is out of the capability of high end computer hardware available to the consumer.

Here are two examples of what is commonly used for training with the US class one railroads -

http://www.corys.com/Transport---18.html

http://www.nyab.com/en/products/simulators/tds5000/tds5000_1.jsp
 
Bob, your wrong. I am posting you an old promo video we had years back. In the cockpit, I am on the right, out of focus with a client who now flies with American Airlines, as a pilot, not a wannabe pilot! The software is Microsoft's!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EfpBZFkBesg


Like I said, it is an uncertified device which means it is as valuable to getting your ATP as playing Nintendo.

http://www.shannonflightsimcentre.com/b737ng-simulator.php


Our simulator have been used for a variety of aviation training tasks while remaining an uncertified device,including: flight deck familiarization; systems training; engineering training; interview preparation and assessment ; jet orientation courses; pre-type rating and recurrent training.


 
And Bob, the graphics in relation to scenery are essential in a simulator. If for instance the trainee is going to be doing local flights in say a Cessna and he / she suffers a system failure that does not effect the actual flight capability, they will be reduced to VFR needs rather than IFR. If the sim they trained on was programmed to replicate their intended real life flight plans, then scenery in the sim will help them in real world VFR.
 
Bob, all 12 of our simulators are certified by every airline traversing Irish airspace, or who land in Irish Airports. 8 of our sims use MSFS or a variant. But still Microsoft tech.
 
Like I said, it is an uncertified device which means it is as valuable to getting your ATP as playing Nintendo.

http://www.shannonflightsimcentre.com/b737ng-simulator.php


Our simulator have been used for a variety of aviation training tasks while remaining an uncertified device,including: flight deck familiarization; systems training; engineering training; interview preparation and assessment ; jet orientation courses; pre-type rating and recurrent training.



We are certified, the center you linked to above is not, and is not us!
 
If the sim they trained on was programmed to replicate their intended real life flight plans, then scenery in the sim will help them in real world VFR.


That’s what makes Outerra so ideal for a flight sim or train sim for that matter. It has the ability to generate very accurate terrain detail and at the same time it’s all done on the GPU leaving the CPU free to do other work. I’ve been testing it for over a year now and it is very good in the way it uses system resources, the performance is amazing when you consider how much detail it’s rendering.
 
Bob, all 12 of our simulators are certified by every airline traversing Irish airspace, or who land in Irish Airports. 8 of our sims use MSFS or a variant. But still Microsoft tech.


Sorry, I don't believe you. There is no major airline in the world that would accept a pilot trained on a Microsoft Flight Simulator.
 
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Clancy that is just incredible, please show us more if you can.

Cheers DJT, here is part 2 of that video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3cA5CeIB0A

Take off simulation this time. Would love to link our co, but will probably violate the code and these vids are our old stuff, when we started out first. The June launch will be the best sim trainer in Europe with a total investment of 8 million euros. This old sim was based on MSFS 2004, with added thrust and braking systems from a real Boeing 737 that you felt in the seat of your pants sitting right there at the controls, yet about 16 feet off the ground in reality!
 
Bob you are reading what you want to read. MSFS training on a professional accredited sim goes towards the certification. It is part of it. Our pilots do x hours with us then move onto their airline of choice for further training. I already posted you a link to a MSFS based sim training center in the US where some of our guys go to, or come from.
 
Cheers DJT, here is part 2 of that video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3cA5CeIB0A

Take off simulation this time. Would love to link our co, but will probably violate the code and these vids are our old stuff, when we started out first. The June launch will be the best sim trainer in Europe with a total investment of 8 million euros. This old sim was based on MSFS 2004, with added thrust and braking systems from a real Boeing 737 that you felt in the seat of your pants sitting right there at the controls, yet about 16 feet off the ground in reality!

Pretty bad landing, overshot the runway markers by a wide margin, was way off center on touchdown, weaving all over the centerline on rollout, and if this was a real flight, the pilot would probably get written up if on a check ride and failed.
 
Cheers DJT, here is part 2 of that video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3cA5CeIB0A

Take off simulation this time. Would love to link our co, but will probably violate the code and these vids are our old stuff, when we started out first. The June launch will be the best sim trainer in Europe with a total investment of 8 million euros. This old sim was based on MSFS 2004, with added thrust and braking systems from a real Boeing 737 that you felt in the seat of your pants sitting right there at the controls, yet about 16 feet off the ground in reality!


Thanks Clancy, I’m off to the local gin mill but will take a look at this when I get a chance.

Interesting thread this turned out to be.
 
Yes bob, you are correct, that's what airline sims are for - better make the mistake in a sim rather than having 250 living souls behind you eating their lunch without a care in the world and oblivious to the pilot going off the scope in the cockpit lol.
 
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