New Paintshed for EE?

[bushymo]

I mentioned in another posting in another thread the kind of things I would like to see in a new Paintshed, is there one for EE?... if so, what about having the ability to dent meshes, to make locomotives looks like they have had 'a few nasty ones' (been involved in a few railyard prangs, and suffered a few bad dents and bangs alonig the way or having had the fronts of them pushed in a bit to make them look like they are ready for the scrapheap.

For those of you familiar with Adelaide, as you go out past Islington Workshops there is a yard there where there are a few of these badly deteriorated locomotives with shot holes, rust holes, bad dents and a lot of patching having been done it their day, that has also gone quite rusty, which is why these locomotives have found their way in that yard, ready for the crusher...

Another interesting look is that of partly dismantled locomotives, and though there is one NSW 48 in the DLS that has the title of 'Derelict 48'... there is not too many other locomtives in the DLS that have the same apperance, and therfore it would be even more interesting if we could create our own bashed up and badly destructed rolling stock, and plant them in our own scrap yard on our layout... most railway networks have a scrapyard somewhere with a collection of locos and rolling stock that have 'seen better days'.... I see on NR getting around Adelaide that looks like it might be ready for a visit to that yard soon, though I cannot recall which number NR it is.

It is looking rather shabby and has no number on the front of it or if there is it has been roughly painted on by some amateur loco painter... I seem to vaguley remember that it might be NR 54.

 

[bchester]

Paint shed is a dead product - Auran has announced that it will not be supported in the future. No further development will done on it.

Other packages such as Paint Shop Pro, Photo Shop, the Gimp, Paint.Net are far superior to use for re-skinning.

As for your query about adding dents to a mesh, this could only be done by adding more polys to a mesh by editing with the original software used to create the mesh such as Gmax, 3dsMax, Blender. The original mesh files are not supplied with Trainz - only the "compiled" or "exported" version of the mesh.

I know this is not the answer you are hoping for, but it is the only answer possible in light of Auran's announcement.

Bricey

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi Bushymo
Paintshed was dropped after TRS2006 (TC's and TS2009 WBE do not include it), due to it's age, and the lack of support from content creators (for very good reasons). It is near impossible to make a high detail model than can be used in Paintshed, and requires that your texture mappings be 100% perfect.

In reality, it is easier to reskin using a 'full' image editor (such as photoshop, paint shop pro, the GIMP, etc).

For things such as dents, etc, if the loco is using normals maps, and has 'proper' textures, these can be added into the textures and normals maps. Of course, you don't need a normals map for it. You can do some pretty good stuff without them.

For 'dismantled' or 'semi dismantled' locomotives, many don't do this due to the poly count required, and the amount of detail. To make a convincing model of one would require a lot of time and care. Especially for the engine itself.

 

[Euphod]

I don't know why people keep saying "it's easier to reskin with a graphics manipulation program" when it's just not true. If you know what you're doing, it may be easier, and you may get better results, but that does not negate the beauty of Paintshed.

How can anyone seriously say Paintshed is not the easiest way to reskin a piece of rolling stock, unless they then add a qualifier or two to the statement?

 

[john259]

While PaintShed didn't meet the demands of the tiny number of expert content creators, it provided an excellent introduction and a lot of pleasure for the huge number of Trainz purchasers who had no previous knowledge of the subject. IMHO it did no harm and a lot of good and should be restored in future versions.

John

 

[Tiger313]

While PaintShed didn't meet the demands of the tiny number of expert content creators, it provided an excellent introduction and a lot of pleasure for the huge number of Trainz purchasers who had no previous knowledge of the subject. IMHO it did no harm and a lot of good and should be restored in future versions.

John

I have to agree with this. I like to think I'm an Average Joe when it comes to computer usage, and I find trying to reskin something is a tough job. Using PaintShed you at least have a way to make your own railroad by making fancy colour schemes.

 

[jadebullet]

I don't know why people keep saying "it's easier to reskin with a graphics manipulation program" when it's just not true. If you know what you're doing, it may be easier, and you may get better results, but that does not negate the beauty of Paintshed.

How can anyone seriously say Paintshed is not the easiest way to reskin a piece of rolling stock, unless they then add a qualifier or two to the statement?

It may be easier, but at what cost. Personally, I find that reskinning in photoshop is more rewarding, and fun than skinning in PS.

 

[Euphod]

It may be easier, but at what cost. Personally, I find that reskinning in photoshop is more rewarding, and fun than skinning in PS.

There's no cost involved. Good for you, you like working in Photoshop, some people don't. Paintshed gave people the ability to do reskins, whether those reskins were respected or not, and they didn't have to use Photoshop.

I find the snobbery towards Paintshed counterproductive.

 

[colhad]

I always have to voice my disappoval at Paintshed being axed. The attitude towards it is a disgrace, Paintshed is an excellent program for teaching people how to reskin.

The models in it aren't too bad, the DL500, DL531 and 2100 class are still quite good.

People should be buying TRS2006 before TRS2009 so they have Paintshed available to them.

 

[amigacooke]

I'm stretching my memory here, but wasn't Paintshed limited in the stock that you could use it on?

 

[titaniclover]

You are correct amigacooke. :wave:

I personally only enjoyed PaintShed for the introduction. I never really used it except to try color schemes but even that was useless in the end. In my opinion if you want to reskin, get the programs (Photoshop, GIMP, ect) and do it correctly. Personally I would keep PaintShed as a stand alone product, get it only if you want it type deal. Wasn't it a add-on of sorts for TRS2004?

I agree with jadebullet, Photoshop brings more enjoyment.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[wreeder]

PaintShed was a separate product for the very first retail version of Trainz. It was stand alone product. UTC bundled it with Trainz 1.5. When TRS2004 was released there was an update made available to users that had bought the stand alone version or UTC. (It is still available online at Auran.com if you're clever enough to find it.) It was then bundled with TRS2004 Deluxe and then built-in to TRS2006.

If Auran was smart they would offer it as a download purchase for a small fee.

William

PS..Last time I checked the Auran shop they still had PaintShed for MSTS for sale too.

 

[S301]

Although I'm not sure if it works with TS09 properly, the original PaintShed is still available through the shop.

If anyone DOES already have the original 'stand alone' version of PaintShed, can they possibly do a test of it to see if it is possible to use it for TS09? If it is, then in reality it's still available for all version.

Zec

 

[bushymo]

PRO's and CON's of Paintshed

I still use it but only when I want to produce another DL531 or 2100, but there are thousands and thousands...and thousands....and thousands of them. in the DLS now, but I generally only produce one for myself for a livery that is presently not available on the DLS like CFCLA, SCT (in which case it would be pretty close to being a T Class, like one I saw out at Killburn near Islington working a sbunt job, and that one had an engine sound similar to the one we are all familiar with as the engine sound for the 2100, not the usual Alco sound... It was very much the same shape as a DL531 but had different vents was perhaps a bit newer in shape... and done up in the SCT livery...

There is a new Green and Gold livery getting around now too, but I don't exactly know what it is, it consists of a marking similar to 'Apple Quck Time' the locomotive is predominantly all dark green with a diagonal kind of pointed arrow thing on it... I did see an EL or AN shaped locomotive out at Dry Creek in this new livery... It is yet another one of these new liveries like CFCLA, SCT and El Zorro.

On the day I was out there I also saw a double ended QR National (not sure of the class) but I had a feeling there was one of these BL shaped locomotives in the DLS, with QR national on it...That was in the same consist of locomotives as the new dark green EL/AN and an ARG GM.

So the only time I use paintshed is to produce a DL531 or 2100 in one of these new liveries...

One thing I did see in the Patrick livery was something looking just a little bit like the shape of one of our paintshed Spoornets, done in a tomato red with Patrick on it...that had come from Outer Harbour....

I still have TRS 2006 one one of my laptops for producingn things like these, and then I copy my creation onto a USB stick and take it over to TRS 09 on my other laptop, no real problems except that I do get a yellow 'Warning' exclmation mark in the CMP, sometimes I may also get a red one, but that does not prevent it from running.

I do notice now that in TRS 09, that all of the Paintshed templates have this yellow 'Warning' mark next to them in the CMP....

The only thing I do find happening is that when I go to reskin an item in another program is that they end up coming out alll white after I have done them, some turn out all right, and some end up white, and that has much to do with trying to reskin them with using more layers on top of the present ones...but that all depends on how they are created in the first place, some of them are successes and some go white.

The ones that turr out white, I just deliete and either try again or forget about trying again.

I do agree with the statement that Paintshed reskins are not respected, and that would be more to do with the huge number of paintshed reskins in the DLS and they can become like 'a dime a dozen'....and when browsing the DLS we do tend to skip them or give them the wide berth a bit...

I would have to say that I have grown out of Paintshed, but not yet to the point where I can successfuly do a more professional reskin. dealing with alpha channels, and TGA's are still a bit out of my realm, and this is where I seem to have the most failures...

Another problem area I seem to have is being able to make a Paintshed skin accept a kind or type of load that it presently isn't set up to take, like making a Paintshed 50ft Gondola take a container load, where at present that particular gondola is only set up to take a woodchips load....

I have studied the CMP a bit and seen how some rolling stock has been given extra attatchment points that will allow it to take more than just the woodchips load, but I think I have a fair bit of learning to do yet....

I for one would like to see a really good tutorial done by Auran or some of the more experienced members here on things like this, and dealing with alpha channels, 'digits' (where you can set up an item of rolling stock to accept a 'running number' and to make it behave like one where you can choose your own running number like we can in surveyor.... because there are a number of topics like these where people like myself and others who have graduated from Paintshed, but are still struggling to deal wtih the more technical areas of reskinnning and that of changing rolling stock behavours ie, attatchment points for containers or. being able to choose a 'random or chosen 'running number'

A random running number is like that which occurs with the SRA 8100 and other locomotives like 'The Red Terror' like when you place more than one of them in your layout. you get a different random running number on them automatically, or you can choose to change it.

The same happens with DavidO's NR's where you automatically get a random running number on your NR or you can choose your own running number in surveyor....These are just some of the tricks that a lot of us are not yet able to understand and be able to do ... a Tutorial would be an excellent idea for those of us who need to know how to go that next few steps further...

Yes! you can still create Paintshed items for use in 09, but you must have a copy of TRS 06 installed on your computer or one of your computers somewhere to do this, save them as CDP's so that you can bring them through into 09 commit them, but bear in mind though that you will get the yellow warning mark in CMP, and in some cases you may also get the red mark, but that will not prevent them from being used... Having an Error Red Warning in the CMP does not necessarily mean that they will not run... it just means... expect that they might not run... I have done this myself and though I have had some not work, most of them should still work ...

 

[backyard]

In a short answer...

I'm stretching my memory here, but wasn't Paintshed limited in the stock that you could use it on?

No. As long as the mesh is in (PM then) .im file.

 

[backyard]

Although I'm not sure if it works with TS09 properly, the original PaintShed is still available through the shop.

If anyone DOES already have the original 'stand alone' version of PaintShed, can they possibly do a test of it to see if it is possible to use it for TS09? If it is, then in reality it's still available for all version.

Zec

Yes, present content will work in '09, in compatability mode.

If new content is made using the .im format, you can use it in '09.

 

[S301]

No. As long as the mesh is in (PM then) .im file.

Erm, no. As long as the textures are made to be 100% perfect, with the mapping EXACTLY where paintshed wants it. As has been said on the forums many times, a total of 2 maybe 5 items were made to allow for this. And they had to be kept to UTC era standards to do it. 09 standards literally blow any hope of making a Paintshed compatible item out of the water. As does anything that doesn't conform to the basic box shape (most steam locos, some diesels, and some tank wagons). Well, not unless to make it so simplified that it would have everyone telling you it's a rubbish model...

Zec

 

[Euphod]

09 standards literally blow any hope of making a Paintshed compatible item out of the water.

Yeah, with 2009's lofty standards, (unless it's built in content, or content someone from Auran has made, in which case you simply protect it from error checking) perhaps someone should make a PaintShed for TREES!

 

[backyard]

Popped up out of thin air...I guess...

Erm, no. As long as the textures are made to be 100% perfect, with the mapping EXACTLY where paintshed wants it. As has been said on the forums many times, a total of 2 maybe 5 items were made to allow for this. And they had to be kept to UTC era standards to do it. 09 standards literally blow any hope of making a Paintshed compatible item out of the water. As does anything that doesn't conform to the basic box shape (most steam locos, some diesels, and some tank wagons). Well, not unless to make it so simplified that it would have everyone telling you it's a rubbish model...

Zec

I've heard....

So where did PaintShed come from anyway?

It's very existance is proof it can be done.

I know the thread pertains to TS2009, however the content still runs in '09.

It's the .pm format that is not supported in '09.

 

[S301]

It came from Auran. And as above, has to be 100% made for Paintshed, otherwise it will not work. The mesh has to be made in extremely low quality to be able to work (as I said, it MUST be a UTC standard mesh), otherwise you will end up with details that cannot be painted (things such as handrails, or doors, and so on).

And then the texture map has to be perfect (as in perfect to a point at which most UVW editors struggle). I'm not saying close, I'm saying 100% perfect, otherwise you end up with join lines all over it. Of course, with a very simple object you don't have to worry too much. But once you get into even relatively complex models (basically more than a simple box) you make it very easy to get mapping off by 1 pixel, and have to spend literally hourse just moving points to get that 1 pixel in the right spot... Not something most creators want to do. In fact, not something most creators actually do.

Then, on top of this, you need to map it into specific spots on the texture for Paintshed.

Even just thinking about how much work this would require makes me want to run away screaming!

Of course, if you still want paintshed, it is there in UTC-06, and of course as a stand alone. In regards to the stand along, if anyone DOES have this version, can you please try seeing if you can choose a location to save to, of which you can then import from.

Zec