Kuji Rail sim release date Friday 5th October 2007
- Thread starter overmars
- Start date
No need to shout, we're not deaf. I don't think anyone said that TRS was the greatest and KRS the worst but they are both out in public and even many of those in RS forums who were predicting how it would be the best thing since sliced bread have changed their tune, although some are now pinning their hopes on the soon to be released Dev Package. Oh well time will tell.
Me, I take no pleasure in watching RS stumble out of the gate after so many promises. As a creator and route builder I was hoping for another platform to have fun in. And that, I think, is all we ask.
Not to repeat all the things that don't work, there are plenty or threads with users and their stories of woe, but it does make one wonder how you can call something a Rail Simulator if even some of the most fundamental processes have issues? And this not from some new kid on the block but an experienced group who already build one before. Tsk, tsk.:hehe:
zatovisualworks
Veteran but blossoming
That's not the case with animated level crossings, John. They were in Trainz from the beginning and have been working properly with built-in code and animated meshes.
Kujuans have been working in RS for years and IMVHO should have been careful with these details and not only with waving winding grass -much less important to railway operations and more performance-consuming-. We show a big deal of criticism with Auranites after every Trainz release; allowed (up to a certain positive level) and moderated by them here. Just opposite to what's going on at the RS forum: no criticism permitted. ( :hehe: Do you remember the celebrated whiners<-->sunblowers threads after the release of TRS2006? )
Yes, I know, this is just an instance and not a universal but details construct the whole.
Alberte :wave:
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Hi,
why shouldn't I compare this highes praised trainsim with the best available content from old sims ??
The Kuju people had access to all old TRS, MSTS, ZUSI, BVE, EEP or whatever stuff and if they want to build a trainsim, that is worth the name, they should at least be pare in most of the features of this available packages... .
Unfortunately the result is buggy, complicated to use (editor) and not really powerfull in nearly all aspects... .
If the bugs are gone, it will be a nice arcade train game (unfortunately not a really good simulator, something like a Flightsim without rudders and flaps).
why shouldn't I compare this highes praised trainsim with the best available content from old sims ??
The Kuju people had access to all old TRS, MSTS, ZUSI, BVE, EEP or whatever stuff and if they want to build a trainsim, that is worth the name, they should at least be pare in most of the features of this available packages... .
Unfortunately the result is buggy, complicated to use (editor) and not really powerfull in nearly all aspects... .
If the bugs are gone, it will be a nice arcade train game (unfortunately not a really good simulator, something like a Flightsim without rudders and flaps).
This is the most sensible thing anyone has said for at least 3 pages.
The two programmes take a very different approach to trains and the presentation of their world on your PC. There's no doubt that MSTS is the true "simulator". You may not like it - but it's true. People complain (for example) that you can't bounce around from train to train, taking the controls of every loco in the scenario. That's right. In real life you can't do that either! You can't hop from train to train any more than you can jump from one jumbo jet to another or from one racing car to another. It's a simulator - not a game.
I've also noticed that lots of people are complaining about the "complicated scenario building tools". As far as I'm concerned the system can be as complex as you like. The real question is, "does it work?" The MSTS system was always pretty complex but in experienced hands it worked a treat. Trains ran as expected and there were none of those embarrassing TRS hokey-cokey moments where trains dance around (in out, in out) trying to decide what to do next.
(Say what you like about MSTS but the AI in TRS is pants.)
The strength of TRS is its accessibility. The learning curve is pretty modest and route builders are rewarded in only a few mouse clicks. Yes, you can even take control of any locomotive at any moment. Better still, with the weight of this community behind it, there's no end in sight to its development.
For me, the difference between the two programmes is quite simple. If I want to drive a train I turn to MSTS. If I want to watch trains go by I reach for TRS. In my opinion both applications are perfectly suited to these very different roles.
Perch
zatovisualworks
Veteran but blossoming
Thank you for your kind words, Perch.
Talking about "my" digital virtual amusement I prefer being "personal" rather than "sensible". Enjoyment and personal involvement is what matters to me, not really pretending being a "sofa driver", not really very 'real' neither in MSTS, RS or TRS. But of course, you are right: that's my involvement in this, not others', and that's why I say that "There's not only one Trainz, there's one Trainz for every of us". :hehe: Maybe there's a different RS for every of us but I haven't noticed still...
Take care,
Alberte :wave:
hmm,
to be honest, I see it completely different... .
If I want to drive in a simulator, I use TRS or Zusi (with TRS scripting, you can do stuff, Zusi user are still dreaming from), if I want to watch trains from the outside, I use MSTS (most Cabs are "not so nice" so driving in a cab in MSTS is a pain in my eyes)... .
So everyone is different in his likes and dislikes, but I have seen a very common dislike of RS from nearly all sides 
... .
to be honest, I see it completely different... .
If I want to drive in a simulator, I use TRS or Zusi (with TRS scripting, you can do stuff, Zusi user are still dreaming from), if I want to watch trains from the outside, I use MSTS (most Cabs are "not so nice" so driving in a cab in MSTS is a pain in my eyes)... .
So everyone is different in his likes and dislikes
, but I have seen a very common dislike of RS from nearly all sides ... .Hi,
You are right Coerni. As a traindriver in RL i never understand that peeps call MSTS or now at the moment RS Real simulators and Trainz toy like. In my opinion Trainz offer alot more when it comes to Physics and real setup for also signals etc. But you need the good content, route etc to get that feeling. But in my experience Zusi is the best cab driving sim for a traindriver feeling and as a second one TRS.
Greetz Laika:wave:
You are right Coerni. As a traindriver in RL i never understand that peeps call MSTS or now at the moment RS Real simulators and Trainz toy like. In my opinion Trainz offer alot more when it comes to Physics and real setup for also signals etc. But you need the good content, route etc to get that feeling. But in my experience Zusi is the best cab driving sim for a traindriver feeling and as a second one TRS.
Greetz Laika:wave:
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TRS is the only simulator (besides Rail3D) that simulates an entire railway network with multiple AI driven trains and schedules and automated signalling (with some bugs). You cannot setup multiple AI trains with timetables running on their own and switch between them to watch in MSTS or RS. TRS wins hands down in this department with no competition.
...and by the same argument "Call of Duty" simulates WWII combat and "FIFA 08" simulates football. The truth is, however, they are both games - and so is TRS. That doesn't make it any worse than MSTS. It just has a different, more accessible way of presenting the railway experience.
I'm a big fan of TRS. I've made a fair amount of 3rd party content for it but I respect it for what it is and will never pretend it's the "be all and end all" of railway entertainment on my PC.
Perchpole
I think you are missing the point. You can drive a train in TRS as well and simulate everything that you can do in MSTS from the point of view of train driving and other AI trains following their timetables. However, you cannot do in MSTS what you can do with TRS Sessions. There is no concept of Sessions in MSTS or RS for that matter where you can run multiple AI trains to different schedules and simulate an entire network without you having to drive any of the trains.
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I got this last week from Game - bought it mainly because it had part of the Somerset & Dorset Railway as a route (Pretty accurate as I have seen may of the buildings personally and in photos).
My main complaint is that like MSTS before it it needs a hefty PC for all the eye-candy. I have ben running it on an Intel Dual core E6600 2.4 Ghz with 2048 RAM and a stripe 0 RAID and with all the sliders to the right I get 7 - 16 FPS according to FRAPS - on TRS2006 content heavy routes with all sliders right I get 25 - 35 FPS.
Haven't tried their version of surveyor yet but it looks like they are also anticipating having free additional content available based on the D/L section of the website.
Cheers
SIMMYBEAR
My main complaint is that like MSTS before it it needs a hefty PC for all the eye-candy. I have ben running it on an Intel Dual core E6600 2.4 Ghz with 2048 RAM and a stripe 0 RAID and with all the sliders to the right I get 7 - 16 FPS according to FRAPS - on TRS2006 content heavy routes with all sliders right I get 25 - 35 FPS.
Haven't tried their version of surveyor yet but it looks like they are also anticipating having free additional content available based on the D/L section of the website.
Cheers
SIMMYBEAR
johnwhelan
Well-known member
I got this last week from Game - bought it mainly because it had part of the Somerset & Dorset Railway as a route (Pretty accurate as I have seen may of the buildings personally and in photos).
My main complaint is that like MSTS before it it needs a hefty PC for all the eye-candy. I have ben running it on an Intel Dual core E6600 2.4 Ghz with 2048 RAM and a stripe 0 RAID and with all the sliders to the right I get 7 - 16 FPS according to FRAPS - on TRS2006 content heavy routes with all sliders right I get 25 - 35 FPS.
Haven't tried their version of surveyor yet but it looks like they are also anticipating having free additional content available based on the D/L section of the website.
Cheers
SIMMYBEAR
I'd be interested to know what your video card is.
If you could try the benchmark http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=14993 there is a TRS2006 one as well that would be informative.
Thanks John
zatovisualworks
Veteran but blossoming
Yes, sir. Some optimistic MSTS people (willing to have something better than MSTS) claim that RS is being able to handle everything without stuttering. IMHO they shouldn't try deceiving themselves.
My experience:
If you activate the anisotropic and antialiasing filter of your card (overwriting any from RS) not more than 2X/2X is suitable for a series 8 GForce card.
If you let RS control these parameters, try not to use more than level 2 at options and game performance slide at 6-7.
No need to say that my systems works with a P4 medium-high processor and 2 Gb of RAM.
The British route is better performance-friendly than the German one.
Alberte :wave:
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FALSE
I have bee making AI trains in MSTS for AGES...Had no problems at all setting a timetable and a path for the train to follow either....
Tom
________
cheap glass bongs
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This is true, but I don't believe that was what he was talking about...in MSTS you can't move from train to train to check on progress...you are tied to one train to drive...in TRS you don't have to drive any train...or you can drive any of them....
Ok so after two days of playing I have to say this:
Positive:
- excellent graphics engine, the routes really do look amazing;
- very good physics engine - thinking I can save some time, I pushed some coal wagons just past the frog of a junction then backed out to go to the other side to grab the tankers that are there .. no luck mate - in Trainz your loco would go through cars on the adjacent line - not so here, I knocked the cars off tracks!
The Bad:
- the way junctions are set up is weird .. most yards have manually controlled switches, while most of the stuff on mainline is controlled by the game scenarios. In addition, while in cab view (this is a Simulator) you can only switch one junction ahead and one junction behind the train and you do not get any indication of which way the junctions are set other then signals if there are any and visually inspecting what you see. You can also set junctions (the manual ones) by going to free look mode and clicking on switches however this can be tad difficult to do since you can only go so far ahead of your train (about 1-2 miles - not very helpful when train is doing 80 mph).
- terrible interface, part of the junction problem. All driving tools are only available in outside view, basically if you want to do all the driving in cab mode its guess and choose, oh and I suggest under 10mph in yards so you can see if the junctions are set the way you need them. The map is really weird but I have not explored that far enough. Another thing - I have yet to find a button that shows you car numbers over them as in MSTS. So far I had to resort to using the free look option to physically inspect each consist to see if this is what I am supposed to inspect.
Overall I don't mind it, but you won't see a custom content community sprouting over it like it did for Trainz. It's fun while it last but we'll see how complicated building new scenarios and routes can be.
Positive:
- excellent graphics engine, the routes really do look amazing;
- very good physics engine - thinking I can save some time, I pushed some coal wagons just past the frog of a junction then backed out to go to the other side to grab the tankers that are there .. no luck mate - in Trainz your loco would go through cars on the adjacent line - not so here, I knocked the cars off tracks!
The Bad:
- the way junctions are set up is weird .. most yards have manually controlled switches, while most of the stuff on mainline is controlled by the game scenarios. In addition, while in cab view (this is a Simulator) you can only switch one junction ahead and one junction behind the train and you do not get any indication of which way the junctions are set other then signals if there are any and visually inspecting what you see. You can also set junctions (the manual ones) by going to free look mode and clicking on switches however this can be tad difficult to do since you can only go so far ahead of your train (about 1-2 miles - not very helpful when train is doing 80 mph).
- terrible interface, part of the junction problem. All driving tools are only available in outside view, basically if you want to do all the driving in cab mode its guess and choose, oh and I suggest under 10mph in yards so you can see if the junctions are set the way you need them. The map is really weird but I have not explored that far enough. Another thing - I have yet to find a button that shows you car numbers over them as in MSTS. So far I had to resort to using the free look option to physically inspect each consist to see if this is what I am supposed to inspect.
Overall I don't mind it, but you won't see a custom content community sprouting over it like it did for Trainz. It's fun while it last but we'll see how complicated building new scenarios and routes can be.