Is Trainz a Threat to the Traditional Model Railroad Business Model?

[Franklin_Prestage]

In a lot of ways, v-scale is the only way to go if you want to model something that is very extensive. Of course, you could shorten distances or use hidden holding yards, or any of the other known methodologies, but when it comes right down to it, there are things you simply cannot do in your basement or garage.

For example, a while back it was calculated that our Darjeeling Himalayan Railway, if done in HOn2, would occupy a space 150 feet (45.72M) by 86 feet (26.21M) and require a ceiling height of 19 feet (5.79M). That is a really big chunk of real estate. On your computer, it takes up a little space on your hard drive and that's it.

I have noted with interest the threads dealing with 'model trainz' - the ones apparently constructed on boards rising from the 'floor' in a virtual room (or house, in some cases). This is a perfect melding of both worlds. As also noted in some of those threads, there is quite a bit of reluctance on the part of magazine publishers to allow routes in their magazines to be used as a guide for v-scale. That, in my opinion, seems very short-sighted due to the increased sales of said magazine just to get the details of said route.

Basically, it isn't just that 'board and wire' modelling has waned, it is just that houses themselves have become smaller, income has been pared down to far less discretionary funds, and most telling of all, the skyrocketing prices being charged for consists, objects, and whatnot required to dress that layout. In short, the industry is shooting themselves in the foot and then crying 'foul' against v-scale software manufacturers.

Just my 2-pence.

 

[Zeldaboy14]

In a lot of ways, v-scale is the only way to go if you want to model something that is very extensive. Of course, you could shorten distances or use hidden holding yards, or any of the other known methodologies, but when it comes right down to it, there are things you simply cannot do in your basement or garage.

For example, a while back it was calculated that our Darjeeling Himalayan Railway, if done in HOn2, would occupy a space 150 feet (45.72M) by 86 feet (26.21M) and require a ceiling height of 19 feet (5.79M). That is a really big chunk of real estate. On your computer, it takes up a little space on your hard drive and that's it.

I have noted with interest the threads dealing with 'model trainz' - the ones apparently constructed on boards rising from the 'floor' in a virtual room (or house, in some cases). This is a perfect melding of both worlds. As also noted in some of those threads, there is quite a bit of reluctance on the part of magazine publishers to allow routes in their magazines to be used as a guide for v-scale. That, in my opinion, seems very short-sighted due to the increased sales of said magazine just to get the details of said route.

Basically, it isn't just that 'board and wire' modelling has waned, it is just that houses themselves have become smaller, income has been pared down to far less discretionary funds, and most telling of all, the skyrocketing prices being charged for consists, objects, and whatnot required to dress that layout. In short, the industry is shooting themselves in the foot and then crying 'foul' against v-scale software manufacturers.

Just my 2-pence.

Exactly. I was thinking about getting into the Bachman Thomas and Friends stuff, but when I looked on Ebay and saw it was about $250, I said to myself "just wait till later." That's my only reason for collecting the TOMY and Trackmaster Thomas and Friends stuff, just like Tomix here on the forums does as well. I've seen some of his Tomy trains in video's, but I think I'm starting to get a little off topic now.

 

[hminky]

You are Virtual guys preaching to the choir.

Same as discussing any scale on any forum.

Harold

 

[sdiesel]

In short, the industry is shooting themselves in the foot and then crying 'foul' against v-scale software manufacturers.

pretty much what i was thinking. if an industry doesnt want to adapt to a changing working (eg prr/baldwin steam to diesel), then there isnt much reason for them to survive.

 

[Lots_Trains]

Its quite interesting actually the quality of models of the model industry. My daughter purchased a loco for me for Christmas a couple of years ago an HO Scale Dash 9, Having just completed an v scale dash 9 with around 70,000 polys around the same time I was very very familiar with every nook and cranny of the Dash9 after studying 100's of photos day after day for a good few months. Really the HO model just dosn't stack up in any way shape or form, it is way way inaccurate and just lacks so much in detail, and the couplers!!, its basically just a big bluk compared to what is achievable in the v-world.

Then you can extrapolate that out to actual routes, no AI, no realistic sounds, I have hear the model world attempt there version of sound its pathetic, and smoke and particle effects in the model world are also pathetic.

I find the Model world pretty ho humm actually but every one to there own.

Cheers

Lots

 

[rgcx]

Yes, it is a serious threat to traditional model railroading.

The average age for model railroading is around 56. I would guess the median age of simmers to be in the 20's. That doesn't mean that the hobby is dying, but the younger gen may not have the desire, money or skill to build their own empire. The hobby trend is changing.

I don't have any space for a real model railroad, but I've got plenty of space on my hd.

 

[bendorsey]

I have a 14 foot 6 inch by 40 foot HOn3 model railroad which I haven't touched since getting Trainz and Gmax. The hobby has simply priced itself beyond my ability to afford. I have a HOn3 0-6-0T that ran $495.00. The same loco in Trainz is free once I buy the proper version of Trainz. A K-36 was around $850. A K-37 was around $950. A Sumpter Valley 2-6-6-2 was over $1000.

I'm retired and can only let it sit and gather dust.

Ben

 

[narrowgauge]

Another factor is permanence of abode. Todays labour force have no guarantee they will live in the same house or even the same town or state for life. Model railways of any size are fixtures unless they are constructed as modules in the beginning. The post above is a case in point, how would you transport something 14'6" x 40' and how would you find a house with sufficient space.

I think that the mid range scales are doomed, garden railways will grow as will the mini scales, N scale and downwards and train simulations will step in to fill the middle gap.

Peter

 

[sparky15]

I have to agree with Peter. The economy has everyone on the move with little left over for a hobby that takes up so much space, time and money. I remember when N scale was a joke or novelty. Now the models coming out are fantastic looking but still over priced for most. Z scale has come a long way but expensive. I carried an edition of Model Railroader around for years planning to build the Ohio Southern from the 70s. Now I'm retired space and money isn't there to finally do it. V scale allows me to finally build every model railroad I drooled over for years in the space of my laptop. A room sized layout is possible in a few weekends in V scale and it doesn't need to be torn down to start another.*

My room sized real layout dreams are gone. Started a small table top N scale route on a 30 by 60 inch portable table. Great fun but limited after going with V scale.*

As for RC aircraft, winter is building time. Summer is flying time. Not near the space or money requirements as model railroading. One of the locomotives Ben mentioned could set you up quite nice. Bet those guys are using flight sims when its cold.

 

[Konni]

Hi,

The answer to the original question is yes and no. Model railroading comprizes of numerous niches. The classical low to medium price segment of model railroading may experience a shrinking market. For this particular segment the threat does, however, not come from virtual modeling but the proliferation of other hobbies including computer games.
There is another, and presumably profitable segment, the high priced collectors's items, catering to customers who do not mind spending > 1000 € for a locomotive to keep it in a glass cabinet to look at. This segment is not affected.
And there are the kids of <12 years of age, who will find virtual model railroading just a bore compared to other computer games, but might be attracted to real models.
I agree, the manufacturers for such segments, and more important the many small shops specializing on selling model railway equipment cannot derive any advantage from virtual model railroading.

It is regrettable that railway magazines are oriented very much towards their traditional customers for advertisements. But on the other hand, virtual model railroaders have other means of communication, e.g. the forum, and since traditional magazines don't do anything to cater to the needs of virtual modelling, they loose a newly developing market segment.

What I really regret is that there is almost no one producing hardware for improved virtual modelling. Auran once marketed a special kind of "keyboard" combination of levers supposed to simulate the instrumentation of a diesel locomotive. Here a lot more could be done! Building a realistic cab interior of a locomotive from where trainz could be operated in the driver mode, by handling "real " levers might be a nice project for a model rail way club. A multi user version working offline too might be useful for such activities.

Cheers,

Konni

 

[bwfeldsee]

It's interesting that so many folk, including magazine editors, see the whole thing as model railway versus train sim. It needn't be as the two hobbies can sit quite happily side by side. They are so different - the model railway is an "intensive" hobby (a lot of detail in a relatively small space) whereas Trainz is "extensive" (you can go for miles). I'm sure there are others who have done what I did. I spent 40 years building a layout in N in my 40 ft loft. You can get a lot of N in a loft and I've had many happy hours building and operating. Even so, there comes a time when you begin to wonder what life is like beyond the fiddle yard and now I know. My line extends for 20 miles in each direction beyond the loft thanks to Trainz.
The two sit quite happily together. I even have the same locos and stock in Trainz that I have on the layout so I can drive my model as far as it can go, then continue the journey on the computer.
I'm not sure I agree that the train sim has been a threat to the bricks and mortar model shop. Internat sales are far more dangerous.
Best wishes
Alan

 

[MountE]

I have to agree with Alan. I put up an N scale railway every Xmas and I've run Trainz and before that MST. As far as sales, the main competition for the brick and mortar stores were the train shows and mail order houses. Now people use the internet to get the best price and the train show to get a hands on (or eyes on) view of the loco or rolling stock. What really is lost is the local store where you could get advice from people in the hobby.
Also while much of the items have become outrageously priced you can still get cheap entry level set in N or HO.

Rob

 

[xcrossi]

Hello:
Yes!

Just take a look at Model Trainz detail.
Small V scale layouts with all the detail your computer can handle.
I did invest in a high end system.
Yes some can afford a $2k engine I can't
A good PW has more detail and I appreciate the skill and time it takes to create it.
Real "Scale" is another hobby for the well healed.
I live 4 blks from a yard.

xcrossi

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

The Australian Model Railway Magazine (AMRM) often covers V scale topics in its issues including items of pay wear for trainz in the review section like any other model for sale.

 

[dricketts]

the two hobbies can sit quite happily side by side. They are so different - Alan

Well said!

The Australian Model Railway Magazine (AMRM) often covers V scale topics in its issues including items of pay wear for trainz in the review section like any other model for sale.

Why cant the publishers here in the North America see this too? An opportunity for everyone to prosper. A win / win.

 

[bendorsey]

One reason might be they have been around for so many years with little to no competition they don't know what to do now that they have some competition. Yes - virtual model railroading shouldn't really be thought of as competition and perhaps to a small extent it is but not to extent they think it is. Ditto advertisers. Walthers had an ad in the very first issue of MR mag in 1934. They are still around and (from my experience with them) unchanged.

Ben

 

[GeorgeCW]

Ben, Atill overpriced!

 

[bwfeldsee]

Once again, I think we are trying to compare apples and pears here. The model railway and the train sim are so very different in both concept, manufacture and, perhaps above all, distribution costs that it would be surprising if there wasn't a big difference in price. We shouldn't forget either that model railway detail (and therefore production cost) is vastly greater than not so long ago and you get what you pay for.
Having said all that, Trainz wins absolutely hands down if you want a long prototype length "journey" with realistic sounds and convincing scenery.
Why bother to compare. Just enjoy both.
Alan

 

[bendorsey]

Here's another way to think of it:

A physical Model railroader and a virtual model railroader can both build a 4 by 8 foot railroad. Granted the V-model railroad cost is far less then the physical one. The v-model railroader can increase his to 40 by 80 feet for (literally) nothing. I'd hate to think what a 40 by 80 foot model railroad would cost.

400 by 800 feet anyone, lol?

Ben

 

[sparky15]

I'm into photography. Pick up one of those magazines. Pages after pages of one manufacturer ads. They give the magazine staff a new camera to test. Think the staff will pan it?

Same with model railroad magazines. They write articles to appease the advertisers. One or two virtual train programs couldn't pay their bills