Is Trainz a Threat to the Traditional Model Railroad Business Model?

[MountE]

One thing I don't see much any more is the Christmas garden, growing up lots of locals set a small train set with a few building up for the holidays. After New Year they were boxed up and stored like the lights and tree decorations. As a kid is was exciting to get permission to turn the knob and see the trains run along the track.
Nothing like what you see in the magazines or train shows. Its almost like with model trains, a war like the arms race developed. Bigger and better, more expensive really, is the order of the day.

Rob

 

[ajrf]

trainz and not only trainz (Railworks, Open Rails and so on), taking into account that in spite of spending a decimal fraction of the Price of various locomotives and/or trainsets and a proper computer, the savings are significant, taking into account that creating a route doesn't take any additional cost, specially if the Budget (and space) is so limited to buy a trainset and create a model scenario that fits our tastes.

 

[cressjl]

trainz and not only trainz (Railworks, Open Rails and so on), taking into account that in spite of spending a decimal fraction of the Price of various locomotives and/or trainsets and a proper computer, the savings are significant, taking into account that creating a route doesn't take any additional cost, specially if the Budget (and space) is so limited to buy a trainset and create a model scenario that fits our tastes.

I think that you are right. For those who love Model Railroading, I don't really believe that the train simulator market will dampen their enthusiasm. As the video I posted earlier shows, MR has always been an expensive hobby, even though I believe the arguments that inflation is taking the hobby out of reach even for those who were at one time willing to pay the price.

The cost goes far beyond the individual pieces: you also need space and time. Without sufficient room, it is impossible to create a reasonable setup; and without time to invest in the hobby, it is impossible to create anything of value.

Compare this to T:ANE, where I can purchase everything I would ever want (right now) for the cost of a single locomotive in just about any scale. I can also have far more than one "setup." I don't actually have to create a thing--just jump on board and drive. I can hop on any time I want; carry my model railroad with me; create assets and routes anywhere I go...the list goes on and on.

Other than the pride of ownership and accomplishment, I can't see too many more advantages of Model Railroading over Trainz. Well, unless it would be faster to create a building out of balsa wood than to model it using Blender...

 

[JCitron]

I think that you are right. For those who love Model Railroading, I don't really believe that the train simulator market will dampen their enthusiasm. As the video I posted earlier shows, MR has always been an expensive hobby, even though I believe the arguments that inflation is taking the hobby out of reach even for those who were at one time willing to pay the price.

The cost goes far beyond the individual pieces: you also need space and time. Without sufficient room, it is impossible to create a reasonable setup; and without time to invest in the hobby, it is impossible to create anything of value.

Compare this to T:ANE, where I can purchase everything I would ever want (right now) for the cost of a single locomotive in just about any scale. I can also have far more than one "setup." I don't actually have to create a thing--just jump on board and drive. I can hop on any time I want; carry my model railroad with me; create assets and routes anywhere I go...the list goes on and on.

Other than the pride of ownership and accomplishment, I can't see too many more advantages of Model Railroading over Trainz. Well, unless it would be faster to create a building out of balsa wood than to model it using Blender...

Well said as always. This in particular is the crux of it:

Compare this to T:ANE, where I can purchase everything I would ever want (right now) for the cost of a single locomotive in just about any scale. I can also have far more than one "setup." I don't actually have to create a thing--just jump on board and drive. I can hop on any time I want; carry my model railroad with me; create assets and routes anywhere I go...the list goes on and on.

Right from day one I never thought of Trainz as being a real-scale railroad simulator. For me it was a way of building my dream model railroad as a real-sized railroad, which started with my first route in December 2003. I took a theme I had developed twice actually in N-scale and had to disassemble due to various reasons including re-appropriation of the space I used to build the larger version of the layout. There was much expense that went into the lumber, track, switches, etc., only to have it ripped down one day because the space was needed for something else. The layout was at the point where it was operational and ready for scenicking, but it never made it that far.

And too, to build a model railroad, the size of a Trainz route, even in N-scale is well beyond even the budget of a gazillionaire, and the fact that we can take it with us, work on it whenever, and never have a mess to clean up afterwards is the best part of it all.

Outside of the tangible aspects of the real-deal, I also see no advantage of having actual models and even then they need cleaning and maintenance, are at risk of being broken by cats, visitors, and our clumsy selves, and worse subject to theft. Sure we can lose a laptop or desktop PC as well, but that's not as common as losing a model train that someone can slip in a pocket unnoticed until later, which I have had in the past after we had some not-so-nice "friends" visit. I couldn't prove who it was that took that engine so I couldn't accuse anyone of the theft, but these so-called friends of my drugged out sister, never came by the house again.

 

[Matt3985]

I agree with John on that account, when I got Trainz 2004 many years ago and after I discovered how easy it was to build routes, I was able to build the virtual model railroad of my dreams something I was struggling to do with my O scale layout. I was extremely limited with my basement space and money. With Trainz I have no boundaries and no money issues to worry about to enjoy what I love most building towns, villages, city's and most of all railroads.

 

[Driver_Col]

I have had OO/HO model railways in my life since the late 1950's. I still had an active layout in my basement while running TRS2004, and later TC3 and TS12 on my pc. TANE pretty much changed that and my layout was dismantled, and I now have the OO/HO rolling stock on shelf displays. It came down to the level of realism with TANE, the relative ease (???) of creating Routes, and the incredible range of rolling stock available as freeware and payware. Also gone are the frustrations of trying to focus my eyes on tiny wires and the tip of a soldering gun! The best though is that I can create a single LMS route and, with minimal changes, run early BR Midland on it. A little more updating and I can run late BR Steam/Diesel, and so on through BritRail to privatization! I can only imagine the expense (and the space required) to that with a model railway!

 

[cascaderailroad]

We used to have 125' of soldered flextrack running across the living room rug 20x15, around the Christmas Twee, under the sofa and chair legs, with newspaper as a barrier from rug fibers (which required daily Bright Boy abrasive stone eraser cleaner, and vaaccuumm cleaner to pick up all residue .. It went up the day before Thanksgiving and came down in May.

In the basement we had a bogbone 12x12 layout, and had 4 head end Athearn locos, and two more rear end shoving, with 36 railcars (which nightly picked a switch, and derailed all 36 cars, requiring 2 hours of re-railing) :hehe:

 

[Dap]

My experience is that if you like to build things with your hands, then model railroading meets a need. But I work with my hands every day. I love railroads, but needed to get out of my shop and create a railroad without physical tools and material. Trainz fills that need for me. And I can build multiple railroads that my MR friends just dream of doing.

I really am into railroad operations, am a member of the NMRA Rail Operations Special Interest Group - OPSig and have participated in many operating session around the country. It is lots of fun and I meet lots of railroaders, but on Trainz, I don't have to buy a plane or train ticket, spend a day getting there and back and I don't have to stay in a hotel. And the older I get, the better that suites me. The only thing I find lacking in Trainz is routes that have challenging prototypical sessions. So,I create them for myself and share a few from time to time.

David

 

[metalnwood]

I like model railroading. I like the miniature aspect of it, looking down on a small world that is working and making it work.

Model making has been a past time but often a means to an end, although I had fun perhaps my time would have been used elsewhere if I didn't have to do it to get what I wanted.

I don't know people thoughts on VR but the other day I used google earth BR and I couldnt help but go to some beautiful cities and look down on them and their rail systems. It was so real and I was sitting above it all like it was my own private model railway.

If we can do something like that, something that still keeps the nature of model railway and allows you to interact with it in a very familiar way as you would with your real model railway then I think the possibilities for cross over are very good.

I have a space I use of about 2.5x2.5M for my VR headset and being able to walk around that area and look in to virtual worlds, diarama's etc is fantastic. Just waiting for it to happen with trains.

 

[BNSF9812]

Some might go ahead and laugh at me for saying this, but i honestly prefer the traditional model railroading, even though i do enjoy Trainz and have a decent sized roster that contains some engines i might never have in HO scale. IMHO, technology has gone too far in some areas. Call me old fashioned, call me crazy, i really don't care. I'll continue to drive the half hour from my home to my model railroad club's current building, and spend a good part of my Saturday morning and afternoon working on our new club layout with friends rather than always being around Trainz, even if I only get home once in a while due to my current career of driving trucks for a living.

John

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Model railways as a hobby has been an attraction for many with the necessary financle resources for a great number of years. Train simulation by way of a PC has also been an attraction for many with the necessary finances for the equipment for a considerable number of years.

In the above, both railway interests have survived side by side for more than a decade and a half on parallel courses. Without doubt the inflation, the financle crises and the recession that followed has reduced the number of persons who are in this era capable to affording the now high cost of building a true model railway.

However, rail simulation by way of a PC is also under threat due to changes in the IT world with mobile platforms providing low cost instantly available gaming that has progressed from being virtually unavailable in 2010 to being the largest gaming platform financially by 2016.

Whether the model railway hobby survives we can only wait and see, in the same way we will have to wait and see if PC gaming survives and with it rail simulation. The world always moves on with the old going out or being replaced and the new coming in. That's the way everything has evolved since time in memoria and the way it will continue.

If their are enough people with sufficient finances and interest in the future, then the model railway hobby will continue. Likewise, if there are suffient persons in the future who can be attracted into purchasing a PC for gaming then the rail simulation hobby may well also continue.

As stated, we will have to wait and see.
Bill

 

[cressjl]

...However, rail simulation by way of a PC is also under threat...
Bill

And the threat is a very real one. No one can really shut down the model railroading hobby, for everything including track and locomotives (which I would consider the greatest challenges) can be homemade. There are purists out there that build absolutely everything themselves, deriving great pleasure from it. I felt much the same way, purchasing props more as a convenience to be tolerated until I could build it myself...

Virtual Railroading, on the other hand, is far more prone to permanent obsolescence due to technology trends and development. At the very least, there are quite a few here that have experienced the company basically walking in and wrecking your virtual layouts with an ill-conceived software "upgrade"!

I'll enjoy the Trainz era as long as I can...

 

[clam1952]

Whether the model railway hobby survives we can only wait and see, in the same way we will have to wait and see if PC gaming survives

PC Gaming is currently on the Increase.
Gaming PC sales have increased https://arstechnica.co.uk/gaming/20...-gaming-pc-market-grows-faster-than-expected/

As stated at the End of the Article, PC's are moving towards a Power Users Tool.

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.

PC Gaming is currently on the Increase.
Gaming PC sales have increased https://arstechnica.co.uk/gaming/20...-gaming-pc-market-grows-faster-than-expected/

As stated at the End of the Article, PC's are moving towards a Power Users Tool.

Malc (clam1952), I would agree with your above posting that the PC gaming hardware market is "holding up well" at present, but that must be taken against the huge growth in the worldwide gaming market overall, whether that be on PC, console or the mobile platform(s)

The three reports below will give everyone all the necessary information in regard to the growth throughout 2015-2016 in all three sectors. As can be seen from the statistics laid out the revenue derived from mobile gaming for the first time in 2016 exceeded that of both PC and console gaming. The statistics regarding the foregoing can be viewed by following the links: -
https://ukie.org.uk/research
https://arc.applause.com/2016/09/13/smartphone-apps-mobile-usage/
https://deviceatlas.com/blog/16-mobile-market-statistics-you-should-know-2016

The above gives any reader a detailed view of usage and sales developments in the worldwide gaming market for the past two years. However, the pace of change in regard to the strength of hardware incorporated in mobile devices increasingly brings them much more "on a par" with the traditional PC and high-end laptops. The foregoing many feel will steadily increase the competition in high end gaming which is at present almost exclusive to the PC and the Windows 10 operating system.

By example of the above, towards the end of 2016 there was much disappointment among mobile device users that the Sampson Galaxy Tab 3 tablet was released with the Qualcom Snapdragon 821 processor at is core. The disappointment was especially felt as there had been overheating problems with this processor when incorporated into many different mobile manufacturers high-end devices.

However, the recent release of the Qualcom Snapdragon 835 processor many feel opens up yet another new era for mobile devices which will bring forward ever higher processing speeds and stunning graphics quality. The foregoing processor has already been incorporated into the new Sony XL smartphone and the release of the Samsung Galaxy S8. A YouTube video presentation of the foregoing processor can be viewed by following this link: -
https://youtu.be/QvnaBT79gn0

As can be seen from the presentation above, mobile devices are becoming ever more present in health, science, education and among various research bodies due to not only their versatility and portability, but also the ever-growing processor power the devices bring forward. That power will also be seen in the gaming that mobile devices are able to carry out. Nobody is saying that T:ane will be seen on a mobile device in the near future, but the gap between high end PC gaming and high-end mobile gaming is closing, which will increasingly beg the question, "will gamers be prepared to invest a large amount in a high-end PC system for what will become an increasingly smaller gain".

Bill

 

[mikemike]

operations

I would say no. V scale modeling is nice and it opens up a lot of new doors for the hobby, but in the end, it's just software. To me, nothing compares to the feel of a real model in my hands. That, plus the fact that you can edit any model or kit to fit your prototype, that there are many more models out there for real scales than the 3d world, and the fact that it is so well established make model railroading an entirely different subject than Trainz or any other train sim. If course, Trainz has as many advantages as it has flaws, if not more. The ability to change season, weather, the ability to place an infinite ammount of a single model, and the endless area that you can model in are great features. That's why I think calling it "V scale" is a misnomer, because they are, in essence, different things.

i do operations and i can do that very well in trainz. i have a lenz digital plus system and some nice O and HOn3 and HO equipment, but my studio condo is 11 x 17 feet. i've got a large shelf built for my trains at one end, and a running shelf along one wall -- running across my patio door -- but, it's not enough track to actually do more than a couple of runs. before i built the shelf, i worked out the plan in Trainz. i like looking at my units -- some nice brass O stuff and some good Atlas plastic -- but, i run and build and operate only in Trainz these days. i get on-line ads from model trains stores, but i only really look at what i'd want to own, without thinking of wanting to actually run them.

plastic scenery bores me ( except for the On3 and HOn3 guys. ) getting stuff from one place to another with a railroad interests me.