Is N3V Rational?

[KotangaGirl]

I'm saying HD and S2.0 should have either come with TRS22 or should have been a free update to TRS22.

I certainly glad that it didn't as it would have been a right pain. Both HD and S2.0 are pretty much still in a beta state that needs further work and S2.0 is a nightmare for anyone who has a neurodivergent or visual disability.

 

[UnionPacificFan1005]

I certainly glad that it didn't as it would have been a right pain. Both HD and S2.0 are pretty much still in a beta state that needs further work and S2.0 is a nightmare for anyone who has a neurodivergent or visual disability.

Then like I said, maybe an update when they were all worked out. But TRS22 should have more that differentiates it from prior versions.

 

[pware]

I'm saying HD and S2.0 should have either come with TRS22 or should have been a free update to TRS22.

Then what would be the attraction of getting a subscription? Surveyor 2.0 and HD terrain are/were the main selling points of Trainz Plus. The next Plus exclusive upgrade, TLR, is still very much in beta release. According to past posts from Tony, the Trainz Plus subscriptions are "going very well" and are providing a steady and consistent source of much needed development funding for Trainz. Why throw that away for a short term gain?

Surveyor 2.0 is now provided built-in to TRS22 Platinum. HD Terrain, or its successor, will almost certainly appear as standard in a future non-subscription version of Trainz.

 

[UnionPacificFan1005]

Then what would be the attraction of getting a subscription? Surveyor 2.0 and HD terrain are/were the main selling points of Trainz Plus. The next Plus exclusive upgrade, TLR, is still very much in beta release. According to past posts from Tony, the Trainz Plus subscriptions are "going very well" and are providing a steady and consistent source of much needed development funding for Trainz. Why throw that away for a short term gain?

Surveyor 2.0 is now provided built-in to TRS22 Platinum. HD Terrain, or its successor, will almost certainly appear as standard in a future non-subscription version of Trainz.

Then what's the attraction of getting it now? S2.0 and HD terrain are in platinum now, a one time purchase. And as I said before, Auran can do whatever they want with subscriptions, I can see the value with the DLC things they have going there. But why does that mean TRS22 has to be the same thing as TRS19 with a different year and price tag?

 

[pware]

S2.0 and HD terrain are in platinum now, a one time purchase.

S2.0 is certainly in TRS22 Platinum but HD Terrain is provided as "Read Only". You can load HD routes created by Trainz Plus but you cannot create new HD Terrain. Editing HD is, from reports, allowed but at a much lower resolution (5m??).

 

[Paulsw2]

Well, if the rails are not going in your direction, perhaps you're on the wrong train.

That's an astonishingly arrogant thing to say to someone who has bought this game and is part of our community. I don't know if you speak for N3V (you always seem to be defending them) but a company with that attitude deserves to go out of business!

Paul

 

[marmalade32]

Which is why i lost interest in UK themed routes, loco's and rolling stock a long time back. Any UK simming i do, i do in TSC. Where there is a shed load of good quality, loco's and rolling stock. With the correct cabs, sounds etc and good physics. Some of the UK payware DLC for Trainz is quite poor as well. One loco not even having the correct detail added to the engine room bulkhead.

Also TSC does not try to fry my CPU and GPU, like TRS22 which is poorly optimised.

I have been here since 2001 and nothing really gets any better. Where is the immersion for players like myself, that cannot or are not interested in doing route building. Proper rain effects, on windscreens and platforms with puddles, as per SimRail and TSW. Tunnels that are actually pitch black inside, just to name two things that really get up my nose.

What is this "TSC" I see? never heard of it.

 

[BlackDiamond1964]

What is this "TSC" I see? never heard of it.

Dovetail's Train Simulator Classic.

 

[marmalade32]

Dovetail's Train Simulator Classic.

Ahh.

 

[sd24b]

That's an astonishingly arrogant thing to say to someone who has bought this game and is part of our community. I don't know if you speak for N3V (you always seem to be defending them) but a company with that attitude deserves to go out of business!

Paul

Part of the freedom of this forum is to provide feedback, even if it is negative.
If someone just wants to play a "game" there is products outside of Trainz that will fill those interests.
If someone wants to be able to create there own world to run trains or modify the game to their needs Trainz is the game for them.

Martin's response was harsh but true. If someone does not like the product nobody is making them stick around.

 

[boleyd]

Part of the freedom of this forum is to provide feedback, even if it is negative.
If someone just wants to play a "game" there is products outside of Trainz that will fill those interests.
If someone wants to be able to create there own world to run trains or modify the game to their needs Trainz is the game for them.

Martin's response was harsh but true. If someone does not like the product nobody is making them stick around.

N3V has decided to go for new customers , realizing they will loose some older customers if they do not keep the old editor in updates.. That is business - Risk versus Reward.

I will continue to upgrade until the OLD editor is dropped. Then I will be in "TANE" land.
Hopefully a usable TLR will appear before then.

 

[SRKing783]

I said this before, but a great thing with Trainz is that if you don't like where the product is going you're more than welcome to stick with an older version. Me personally if N3V makes a move I really don't like then I'm downgrading to TANE and sticking with it. But I doubt that Trainz is really gonna go so off track that it has to come to that

 

[Paulsw2]

Part of the freedom of this forum is to provide feedback, even if it is negative.
If someone just wants to play a "game" there is products outside of Trainz that will fill those interests.
If someone wants to be able to create there own world to run trains or modify the game to their needs Trainz is the game for them.

Martin's response was harsh but true. If someone does not like the product nobody is making them stick around.

More arrogance! Are you guys on a retainer?

 

[amigacooke]

Martin's response was harsh but true. If someone does not like the product nobody is making them stick around.

That is pretty obvious.

However, whether N3V will be happy with potential customers being told to move on is more debatable.

 

[JCitron]

As armchair CEOs, we can say a lot of things while sitting in our comfy chairs while playing with Trainz. Apparently, N3V is rational enough to be in business since 2006, or when Auran ceased to exist. If we consider N3V to be a reincarnated Auran, then it's been at least 25 years.

As outsiders, however, we can see the quirks and faults. If the management is rational, then perhaps someone will read the posts here and adjust their business practices for the better. Who knows, right!

 

[pware]

As outsiders, however, we can see the quirks and faults. If the management is rational, then perhaps someone will read the posts here and adjust their business practices for the better. Who knows, right!

If they had followed the advice posted by some of us armchair "business and programming experts" over those years then they would ...

1. never have released a new version until all the bugs in the old version had been fixed (we would be stuck on Trainz 1.3)
2. not have moved beyond TRS2006 (the best version ever - but how would we get there if TRS2004 still had bugs?)
3. not have added layers or sessions
4. not have introduced Surveyor 2.0 and HD until they were completely bug free (see point 1 above) and in their final form
5. give us all free and unlimited DLC access
6. make all new developments backwardly compatible and as a free upgrade to all existing versions

... but would probably no longer be in business.

My idle thoughts.

 

[martinvk]

If they had followed the advice posted by some of us armchair "business and programming experts" over those years then they would ...

1. never have released a new version until all the bugs in the old version had been fixed (we would be stuck on Trainz 1.3)
2. not have moved beyond TRS2006 (the best version ever - but how would we get there if TRS2004 still had bugs?)
3. not have added layers or sessions
4. not have introduced Surveyor 2.0 and HD until they were completely bug free (see point 1 above) and in their final form
5. give us all free and unlimited DLC access
6. make all new developments backwardly compatible and as a free upgrade to all existing versions

... but would probably no longer be in business.

My idle thoughts.

Amazing how irony doesn't always translate well in text.

When I first read this I thought, really, are you serious? Then I read the last line "... no longer in business. " And that is the key. We in the armchairs have very little on the line when we put forth our recommendation. Me perhaps about $1000 over the 22 years I've been in Trainz. That doesn't count costs that I would probably have incurred anyway like computer upgrades, other support software, etc. As for Brew Crew at Trainz, if they make a few too many wrong moves, they can close the lights and go home.

On a side note, why do some have such a dislike for layers? Every CAD , photo editor and design software I used had layers and I don't recall every hearing that they should get rid of it.

 

[BlackDiamond1964]

When a business decides it will no longer listen to it's base majority...(the casual content creator and users), shuts them out in favor of difficult content creation and finding different ways of grabbing every nickle and dime from the user, they have completely lost focus on what the program was created for in the first place. It's really that simple. People will stick around until they no longer enjoy it. Very few are creating new content, there is a real good reasons for that... but that should be saved for another thread. Those few that are creating the new content are probably being paid to do so, or have access to the expensive creation tools needed to pump it out. Meanwhile, the majority the 3rd party creators are still building their content in the older builds. What some forget is that Trainz really didn't start out to be a business, they started out to fill a niche in model railroading for the computer. It far removed from that now.

 

[pware]

When a business decides it will no longer listen to it's base majority...

And there is the problem. How do you tell the difference between the "base majority" and a minority who post loud and often? Web surveys/posts are notoriously unreliable as guides to what the majority think.

I did a survey on this point several years ago in a thread that was complaining about some aspect of Trainz (I forget which). Of the hundreds of users who "viewed" that thread there were less than 10% who posted and of those only a very few were making complaints, often the same posters making repeated posts. One could reasonably conclude that the 90% who did not respond did not have a complaint about that particular issue (or perhaps felt that their view was adequately represented by the posts already there!).

This is not to diminish the value of the opinions of those complaining - I have sometimes found myself in the position of posting about a problem with a Trainz feature only to find that I was the only poster.

Users should be encouraged to post their views and opinions but does that mean that all opinions are equal? That management should act (change direction?) on every one? What happens if you get totally contradictory opinions?

I am reminded of a quote attributed to Winston Churchill who, allegedly, stated that the "The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter".

More idle thoughts.

 

[BlackDiamond1964]

And there is the problem. How do you tell the difference between the "base majority" and a minority who post loud and often?

The lack of new content...it's not that hard to figure out.