Is N3V Rational?

boleyd

Well-known member
Once a customer gets beyond the exaggerated advertisements the rational thing to do is to look at the vendors forum. They want to see "which way the wind is blowing". If I was shopping for a train program and I saw this forum - NO SALE.

I do not know the level of marketing knowledge in N3V but this forum is INHIBITING sales. Fancy graphics may bring customers to the door but the odor of discontent will soon overcome them. N3V is focusing on new customers but making this a development platform for talented artists is pure tunnel vision. Those fine people are the only positive element in this mess. Unless N3V supports existing customers, who use the program to run trains, they are at a dead end for sales volume.
 
Eight years ago, there was TANE. Folks were looking for help, venting frustration(looking for help), posting intentions to quit, seeking knowledge, having fun with Trainz and posting screenshots. The latter two postings convinced me to try out Trainz 8 years ago.
Suspect I’m not alone.
casey
Trainz fanboy
 
I wouldn't say the Trainz forums "made the sale" but when I first heard of Trainz, 21 years ago, the first thing I did was to checkout the forum and see what it was all about. The vibe I got at the was very positive, with plenty of enthusiastic and helpful people. I then got onboard and have enjoyed the ride ever since. And while there have been many changes of the years, good bad and ugly, I find the overall vibe of the forum to still be positive and inviting.
 
Same here Martin. Trainz started out as an alternative for building a model railroad for those with neither the money or the space for a real one. The "routes" we had back then were called layouts, just like model railroaders. Microsoft Train Simulator was the most popular train simulator at the time, but was almost impossible to build your own route with. Trainz came along and made layout building very simple and easy to do. Also, Trainz has always been geared towards the content creator. Anyone who wants to put in the effort can learn to build assets to be imported into the simulator. Same as scratch building a model for your layout. Build a model, import it and view it in game and say "I did that" "I actually built something for a video game that others can use".

Boleyd, if all you want to do is drive trains without all the fuss of building routes or being able to change things to your liking look into Dove Tail train simulator. That is more a game than Trainz is. They built it as such. You drive trains on whatever routes they build for the game. It's a game, like Microsoft Train Simulator was.

You don't have to go with all the fancy new tech N3V is coming up with for us die hard Trainzers. You can stick with a basic version of the software and still get the benefits of being able to do your own thing. Trainz software is basically a game engine like Unreal Engine or Unity. Just geared towards railroad simulation. (That surprised me a bit when I learned how to use Unreal Engine4 in college.) Even though, you could still build your own neighborhood in the game if you wanted. You are only limited by your imagination. Let N3V worry about marketing. I'm sure they have someone to do that for them. I have a half way decent computer and I still get stuttering in some areas depending on model density and other factors with HD terrain. I put up with it because I enjoy being able to do what I can do with the program. HD terrain is still in beta. N3V is using us (the general user) to help sort out the bugs and limitations. Eventually, I hope most of my stuttering and other problems will go away when the final version comes out. My two cents worth.

Jack
 
As much as we kvetch loudly about the quirks, bugs, and pitfalls, is there anything else out there that can do this? Tony and the Brew Crew mean well but they're disorganized. In part this is because they're trying to please everyone instead of focusing on a single direction. This is what has caused the confusion in the product offerings, the less than stellar bug repairs, and a host of other things. I can't say that this is from being a small company because I've seen small companies operate as though they are much larger and do a lot more with many more products. It's all about time management and focus where they need to focus their energy, IMO.

I arrived on the Trainz scene officially in December 2003 when I got TRS2004. I had MS Train Simulator and was frustrated with my constantly crashing computer and a very difficult program to build or modify routes in. We thought TRS2004 was bad, geez, MSTS would GPF or blue screen when editing activities, or did any route editing. They issued a single patch to fix that and the random couple breakage issue but that was too little and too late.

During a trip to CompUSA, I found PaintShed for MSTS and used that to skin some boxcars. It was fun and it was, well PaintShed as we remember from Trainz. The more important part though, was the link to www.auran.com on the package. It was there I found the forums and also downloaded the demo. The demo could barely run on my ATI 9500 and kept crashing with a black screen. I waited, and waited and when I saw an ad for the upcoming new TRS2004, I watched for it and got that the day after Christmas in December 2003. By then, I had upgraded, if we can call it that to an Nvidia card of some kind and the program worked right off the bat.

Like Jack, I remember the layout terminology and always thought of the routes we build as layouts. My very first route, still in existence today, is my model railroad layout expanded to a real-world size. For anyone who has built a model railroad, this is a dream come true. The fact that we can fit so much in so little space, meaning our computers is still spellbinding. One day I thought about this, and said to myself, Imagine, being able to do this when I was a kid, what it would've been like for me then. In 1995 I was working with a 3d modeler on training programs. During our commute, meaning I drove and he gave me gas because he didn't drive and lived a block away, I described a program that I wish we had that could do what we do today. His answer at the time was that it would be impossible to do because that would be too complex. Given the hardware we had at the time, I can see that from his point of view, but he said all the model building, animation, and programming needed to make it all work makes sense. Less than a decade later and it was possible with Trainz 1.0. He has yet to see Trainz in action and I can only imagine his reaction to the graphics and everything else we have today. Our ability to build the world we want and then see it from the cab as a driver/engineer, or passenger from the comfort of a seat in a parlor car is still the best thing.
 
I started with Trainz before there even was a product. Joining the forums shortly after they opened up and long before the game was released. Early days were filled with expectations and what-ifs. Since that time the game has been improved and expanded many times and while none of the versions have been exactly what I or many have wanted It is a pretty darn good program that allows me to practice my love of train operations without the massive monetary expenditure that H.O., N, or any other scale model railroad require. Yes, there are problems, I can think of no game that has zero problems, but, this game does allow me and many others to do something that 30 years ago was just a dream. I have been able to make a D.E.M. of the entire Virginian Railway from Deep Water to Sewells Point. Nowhere else is that possible. So, while the game is not perfect and needs many improvements and fixes. I am happy and hopeful that N3V will keep at it and continue to improve the game as we move along.
 
Once a customer gets beyond the exaggerated advertisements the rational thing to do is to look at the vendors forum. They want to see "which way the wind is blowing". If I was shopping for a train program and I saw this forum - NO SALE.

I do not know the level of marketing knowledge in N3V but this forum is INHIBITING sales. Fancy graphics may bring customers to the door but the odor of discontent will soon overcome them. N3V is focusing on new customers but making this a development platform for talented artists is pure tunnel vision. Those fine people are the only positive element in this mess. Unless N3V supports existing customers, who use the program to run trains, they are at a dead end for sales volume.

What specifically about the forum makes you not want to buy Trainz? What would you suggest N3V do to make the forum better for new users?

If it's the content creation part; there are lots of other areas of the forum, in fact out of the 57 categories, only 3 are truly about content creation... which is 5%!
 
I do not know the level of marketing knowledge in N3V but this forum is INHIBITING sales.
I could not DISAGREE more!

The fact that Auran/N3V allow a "no holds barred" (within the code of conduct) free and open "warts and all" discussion of their products both encourages me and gives me confidence in the future of Trainz. Despite claims to the contrary, N3V does listen to what is said here but of course not everyone will be happy that the response is not always what they wanted. How many company CEOs would be regular posters of their forums?

The alternative? How about a forum that only allows positive posts?
 
I seem to not be completely understanding the issue here, is the root problem what N3V does or what the forum members do, first 2 comments seem to be both?
Anyway, my health is a mess and I kind of do my own thing, as able.

My greatest annoyance and disappointment with Trainz is that computer electronic trains are not anywhere near as simple to repaint to my liking and preferences as my styrene and metal model trains are.
That is likely simply not possible to change.
 
I'd like to know what other product of any genre gives so much to so many users whose only common interest is trains. At one end you can simply drive the routes and sessions straight out of the box package of Trainz. Or you can build an entire trains universe from the pixel and vertex level. The power to do that is quite astounding.

Trainz has been growing and changing since inception and shows no signs of slowing down. I intend to stay onboard for the ride.
 
I could not DISAGREE more!

The fact that Auran/N3V allow a "no holds barred" (within the code of conduct) free and open "warts and all" discussion of their products both encourages me and gives me confidence in the future of Trainz. Despite claims to the contrary, N3V does listen to what is said here but of course not everyone will be happy that the response is not always what they wanted. How many company CEOs would be regular posters of their forums?

The alternative? How about a forum that only allows positive posts?
I totally agree I have been around for about 20yrs now and have on a few occasions said I would leave but I'm still here.The Forum has had no influence what so ever in any decision on leaving or telling someone not to buy this Game/Sim It's whats kept me here with all the help available when it's needed and as said above I have had help from Tony personally in the past as he is on the Forums.This is the only game I have where is virtually 24/7 support where you don't have to wait days to get a reply.
Like John said about his layouts. Mine were Modules from when we were going through that stage.The route I'm working on now is all my modules spaced and joined into a working route,layout dating back to 2004 to present which I've had support in during that whole process from the Forum.
 
C'mon people you all know Trainz is a brilliant SIM to play on..serious/amateur or casual user we all get something from it one way or another. Of course there are detractors but who knows what they actually want from the game.
For me it is simple...build a route and then drive it/share it/modify it/watch your hard work in action. Try to recreate something from the real world or imagined doesn't matter, it give pleasure and fun whichever way you look at it. If its not for you then you can go elsewhere...easy choice isn't it. The forum is enlightening in many ways, not just the negative. Personally I have learned heaps from reading it or asking for help.
Whilst there may be some drawbacks as the SIM evolves they are in no way limiting what can be gained from playing it.
N3V, in my view, do a splendid job in providing an excellent piece of software that provides [me] and no doubt countless others with endless hours of fun, and at times frustration.
Once upon a time some moons ago all I had to build a route was butchers paper a pencil and rubber, and some drafting tools.
Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Well, I guess I was wrong-thankfully.
Unhappy forum users do not stymy new sales with their reports of issues
The point of the forums is to report issues to (hopefully) improve the product, somethings do get improved (somewhat) but as I earn my funds to pay for my FCT from an organization with a multiple decade long underfunded IT environment I have more sympathy to N3V than most
 
I seem to not be completely understanding the issue here, is the root problem what N3V does or what the forum members do, first 2 comments seem to be both?
Anyway, my health is a mess and I kind of do my own thing, as able.

My greatest annoyance and disappointment with Trainz is that computer electronic trains are not anywhere near as simple to repaint to my liking and preferences as my styrene and metal model trains are.
That is likely simply not possible to change.
As models get more detailed there is more objects to paint/skin, newer programs (such as substance painter) make it much more user friendly to the model creator but harder for a subsequent user without the original files to recolor (reskin) the model, this is more of a feature than a problem for most 3D artists so the complaints to the software developers (customers of said software) are not going to be addressed, as such re-skiners are going to have to adapt.. It is unfortunate for freeware but just like alpha channels it is another thing that allows creators of payware to better protect their product. If you want a product that is off label (i.e. reskinned) make it yourself or find someone to commission it. Based on current HO scale model costs you would still come out a head.
 
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There was one thing forgotten here.

Generally, on internet forums, the loudest voices in forums are from those that have a complaint, issue, or beef with the product. This is why the ratio to people saying good things, aka fanbois in gamers terms, is rare.

N3V's forums are different though maybe because they have matured or because the product is unique and for the most part people really want it to work and usually it does. It could be that the product is for all intent in purposes a mature product, meaning a tried-and-true product even if there's a whole new interface and features as the product is being modernized. Then too, there's the ratio of people who have used the product for the long term and have a better understanding of what it is capable of doing and not.

It's not that we don't have our complaints, nitpicks, and other issues. We don't complain as loudly or as soon as the complainers who come to the forums to-do so. And finally, there's the age of the users here. Unlike many forums where the average user age is 12 years (generalizing here), many users here are, ahem, older. We know enough to keep our mouths shut and we're a bit more respectful of others. There are exceptions of course and the moderators do a splendid job in taking care of those that get out of line.
 
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The game environment itself has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 15 years. But therein lies the problem as the quality of the models is lagging. There aren't enough creators who can meet the latest standards in the game and N3V's development of DLC is amateurish at best. Meanwhile the subscription/rental model is the ultimate passion killer that I have for this game. The UK DLC is very poor, and almost all subscription only. With very few high quality models to run in the game I have largely lost interest in the last 12 months. Which is why I will not be renewing my Gold subscription.

Paul
 
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