I think now is the best time, if any, to get this off my chest.

Timothetoolman

L.O.V.E.M.U.F.F.I.N
I’m 18 now. To most, this will come as a pointless fact that means little in the way of this place, other than being one of the many late-teenaged patrons, who, when time permits, wants to play some Trainz, hang out on the community forums with fellow-Trainz members and talk about Trainz, railways and simulation. We have threads dedicated to Screenshots, Content Creation, Technical Support and even threads for those who may speak English as a second language, or not at all. I’ve followed this place longer than I have owned Trainz, and when the time came for me to start adding to the conversations, almost everybody was friendly and intelligent enough to respond in both insightful and helpful ways. It was a community that had no rival when it came to Railway Simulation, and whilst we all agreed Trainz, our hobby, was imperfect, we all strived to make the best of it and few complaints were uttered, unless they were the professional constructive criticism aimed at bettering the work of another. Oh have the times changed…

What has become of this place? Where is the professionalism, the cheerfulness, the friendliness and advice? What happened to the good old conversations we all had, discussing matters relating to our hobby? Why it all was replaced, or at least almost all replaced, by the complete and utter rubbish that I’m viewing almost every single day?

That’s right, this is a complaint thread, but one where I will attempt to make an intelligent case against the crap that has befallen this once great community. I will begin with the stupidness that has poisoned most threads…

At least once-a-day I don’t come across a thread that makes me weep for humanity because they seem to always fall on the most petty of subjects. Usually they are asking questions; fair enough, that was part of the trend, because when one asked a question that was legitimate it was usually answered with an equally legitimate response. Now it seems that the questions are repeats of the same question, occasionally by the same person, and quite honestly these questions are as legitimate as owning a swimming pool in Antarctica. They aren’t always Trainz related, which today is not so much asking for advice as it is demanding for content of varying descriptions and in the most horrendous and poorly-written of formats. Again, these are usually asked by the same person over and over again, and whist it was customary to respond politely, it has since turned into a game of “Hunt the Gimmie-Pig.” “Gimmie-Pig” is a terrible description, because it was no doubt invented by an equally unintelligent person to that of the individual being described. Every time Jointed Rail releases an image of a recent render for an upcoming model, the fan boys come out in droves to ogle at its pixelated goodness, and bask in the glow that they are too lazy to aim for themselves. “Oh, please make this while you’re at it”, “make this one”, “OMG, I can’t wait for the x version” are just some of the many responses one can find following such a reveal. This isn’t appreciation, it’s just wannabe creators over-hyping an achievement they could just as easily reach if they put even a smidgen of the effort the JR lads did.

Then there is the pathetic questions that fall outside the creations sector of the forums. In the “General Trainz” and “Prototype Talk” threads alone I see threads that should never have existed in a world for of intelligence. One in particular caught my eye because the same thread was posted not once, not twice, by three times in quick succession, and not because they warranted no real use, oh no, we go further than that, but because it was blocked by the boss-men because it started too many fights, and the ironic thing about it was that the threads were all about “Flame Wars” on the forum. What on Earth does this warrant 3 threads for such a juvenile and diabolically pathetic discussion topic? That would be like me asking why you cook food in a forum dedicated to knitting; how the hell does it provide legitimate discussion? You have got to be kidding me. Of course then you also get the simply rubbish questions that always starts fights such as “Which is the best train in the world?” or “What is the ugliest locomotive in the world?” These titles in themselves spell trouble before the page has even been selected to load up. In the olden days of these forums such a thread would be allowed because they created a discussion that was not fuelled by testosterone-filled boys who are too sissy to pick a fight face-to-face and take it up behind a screen, keyboard and false-identity. One familiar with internet-lingo would call these morons “Trolls”. I would to but not because of their attitudes, but their lack of brain cells. They have the intellectual properties of a troll. If only we could keep any and all definitions on troll in the world of fantasy.

Then of course there is the big one; dealing with these morons. It seems that today everyone is entitle to a second chance, which is fair enough, but then they stuff up again and later are given a third chance, then a forth chance. It’s like AFL football; a player does drugs, gets booted out of the frankly terrible sport and then recruited back because the feel sorry. And we know it’s only a matter of time before they fall prey to the habit again. People don’t learn from bans mods, if you’re reading this, because eventually they will be again. Locking threads and banning culprits isn’t the answer to deal with this people, because it doesn’t work. They will just come back, start another pointless debate and fall back down taking as many witnesses with them to the pit of shame. It is hard for us old regulars to be polite anymore because it is with this sort of scum that is dealt with on a daily basis. I don’t just speak for myself here that we are sick and tired of stupid members, rubbish threads and poor behaviour when it comes to the Trainz Community Forums, and many a once highly-respected member has been lost to the filth that has come to us over the years.

It is hard for people like myself to survive here and to preserve what was once one of the best communities on the world-wide-web, and it is just a shame to see what has become the ‘new’ internet culture wash over it like an oil-filled sea does on a white-sand beach. It is swallowing everything, leaving little to nothing untouched; as is the plague of modern social media. I come here to share in the hobby, not deal with morons who use YOLO, LMFOA and WTF in every day speech, who probably spend more time on Facebook poking at ‘funny’ topics than they do actually coming to understand that humour does not involve an internet meme and foul language. This is a civilised group thank you very much, and alongside my fellow members who stand for the same level of professionalism that I do, will continue to attempt to retain said level of professionalism within this community. We may not be the best model makers, route builders or reskinners out there, because that isn’t the full story when it comes to Trainz. It’s a community effort, and judging by what has come into this community, it is clear that what passes for effort is declining rapidly.

I’ve always said I pray for what humanity has become in the last decade or so, but this place is a little closer to my heart than the rest of the world. You may say it’s just a game, but there are some out there like me who know it is a lot more than that, but if this is what the community is coming to, I think I to will one day see it as just a game, only because the community part no longer welcomes me with the open arms it once did.

Tim
 
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I'm 19, and occasionally I come across my old posts while searching for something I do find them somewhat childish or impatient. I think that young, new, members, we should rightly guide and advise them the proper ways of conduct. Because I was young and childish once too and today I just hope I've not ended up on too many people's ignore lists because of that.

However, I do agree those who refuse to learn after being told many times can get slightly irritating.
 
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I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment of the past 18-36 months. Though it may seems harsh I have no problem with agree with it. If someone is reported, give em a harsh punishment, if they don't learn, forget the chances! People don't want them here!
Obviously it makes sense that all who have the software should be able to post around here but what if they have nothing to contribute or legitimate, unanswered questions to ask? They don't NEED to post here, and when they don't realise it someone has to make it clear, and when they still don't get it, they should be denied access.
I also know that there are people who seek out the threads and posts that are easy to start s***. WHY?! What are you doing!? Get lost! go fight with your friends!

I hope those who know they have been spoken to about what they post read this and TAKE NOTE.

Cheers
 
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While I agree with the general thrust of this thread, it's easy to fall foul of the CoC yourself. Using the term 'moron' falls into that category, using foul language even if 'starred' is another breach.
 
The wonderful thing about Trainz and it's Forums is that people here are of all ages and come from around the world. Some speak english natively while others have learned english just to communicate with the english speaking community here. In other words, we're not all alike. The so called "gimme pigs" may be children in awe of what older Trainzers can make, but haven't learned those skills yet. Weren't we all kids at one time?

So I say to all, be glad for what you have and enjoy the different ages and nationalities of the community. It's truly international here. What a pleasure it can be if you let it.

Cheers

AJ
 
Believe it or not, there are intelligent conversations going on in some forums between Trainzers of all ages. While there are some posters that are excitable or just plain irritating, you can always ignore them. Some of our younger contributors of which, sadly I am not, are very bright and have some really good ideas. That, in my view, needs encouragement. ;)

I don't like the term "gimme pig" either but I have no problems with people asking for stuff. My only concern is that perhaps they do not realise how much effort is required to build such items.
 
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Believe it or not, there are intelligent conversations going on in some forums between Trainzers of all ages. While there are some posters that are excitable or just plain irritating, you can always ignore them. Some of our younger contributors of which, sadly I am not, are very bright and have some really good ideas. That, in my view, needs encouragement. ;)

I don't like the term "gimme pig" either but I have no problems with people asking for stuff. My only concern is that perhaps they do not realise how much effort is required to built such items.

I dislike the "gimme pig", or "gimmie pig" usage as well. I do however, understand and acknowledge the amount of great effort you guys building content takes. I was shocked about timothetoolman, in one aspect, didn't realize he is so young, and that is a great thing. He has done SO MUCH! Very impressed and exceeding my expectations.

So, my hat is off to you guys, the reason I still keep using trainz, along with my father using it, also.

The attacks, trolling, flamewars, and what have you, that all needs to settle down, agreed.

Paul
 
Interesting now go back and read what you've written. If you note the comments they are all more or less two or three lines.

Are you simply writing or are you trying to influence people? If the latter think of a way to say what you've said more concisely because people will simply skip if its too long. I'd keep the language polite otherwise people will stop reading.

The forums have changed over time, but that happens, things evolve. When Trainz was first starting everything was fairly new. How can we do this. These days its much more incremental, how can we improve this. The numbers have grown as well what was a small number of people have swollen over time.

Within the content creation forum most traffic is fairly sensible. In other forums possibly not so. The people who seem over enthusiastic have a roll to play, they buy the Trainz product which means N3V have a little more cash around to survive another day. Those whose English is not so strong so what? Even I use TTFN from time to time.

Oh and its probably better not to pray for people, my god might not be the same as yours, nd you're into religion then. Do you believe that Apple is better than Windows etc.

Relax, learn Blender and learn to ignore parts of the forum.

Cheerio John
 
The wonderful thing about Trainz and it's Forums is that people here are of all ages and come from around the world. Some speak english natively while others have learned english just to communicate with the english speaking community here. In other words, we're not all alike. The so called "gimme pigs" may be children in awe of what older Trainzers can make, but haven't learned those skills yet. Weren't we all kids at one time?

So I say to all, be glad for what you have and enjoy the different ages and nationalities of the community. It's truly international here. What a pleasure it can be if you let it.

Cheers

AJ

I'd add in that it's only a forum, not the UN General Assembly. try not to take it, or yourselves too seriously. Refrain from personal attacks, you can disagree, even argue without losing civility. If something you see really annoys you, step away, let it go by, let the Moderators do their jobs, they are capable and do a good job. Trainz is a great hobby, it's meant to be enjoyed. It's OK to be passionate about it, that's the lifeblood which keeps it going, but keep a sense of perspective about it.

Similar things happened before the Great Forum Crash of 06. I'd hate to see it happen again.
 
I feel that you hit the nail on the head Tim (and the need to rant a bit myself) I think that this has been why I have been so annoyed, discontented, and disjointed with rhis place. On top of all of that, the slightly unnecessary need to constantly hound on the new people is outrageous. I realize that it can get annoying with the constant asking of easy to solve questions (and rather stupid ones as well) and the rather inept attitude they have. All I have to say is that I sure it would be easier to just help them instead of getting annoyed with them (but I will say that sometimes, it can be necessary). There it a point where you just can't take anymore of it. Then of course there is the endless over infatuation with the "Big Ones" (I think you know what I am referring to), that ends up being the only thing anyone cares about. But of course there is always the fact that your past seems to follow you here (or so I have seemed to noticed) , regardless of how much you try to change things. It also would seem that this provides the perfect moment to bow out while I still can. I'm sure I'll still be around, just not in terms of content making. So get it while you can, because it wont be around much longer. Bye now.
 
As all the old timers here would agree, we now live in the era where it is easier to search for and access information (and faster), than at any time in history.
We have seen the change and use the functionality we have developed. Younger people have grown up with the Internet, they have known nothing else, and so they look at it capabilities in a different perspective. Yes, they can find information, but the "search" for yourself attitude seems to have been lost. All they have to do is "ask".
With instant communications comes instant answers.
Times change, so the behavior on forums such as Trainz (and on the net as a whole) also changes. We old timers may not like it, but we can't change it either.
Personally, I read about 1 in 50 threads. If the topic doesn't grab me, then its just ignore and on to the next one.

Bob (CRO)
 
Do you really think the ones this is aimed will even bother to read it?

Well i read it if that helps although it took me a long time, I've never read that much since i left school yonks ago. Nice read Tim.
Cheers Mick.:hehe:
 
This has been something that has been needed to be said for a long time. Cheers Tim, for saying it first!

-D.C.
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I think the thread starter was too serious by half. No problem with someone airing views even if slightly strident but my feeling was that it leaned too far into the critical. When I was around his age, I thought I just knew about everything and when I think back it makes me squirm a bit. Having been so youthful and not with a wider experience of life, it was so easy to be rigid and see no areas of grey. Everything was either very white or very black and no room for anything in between!

Yes there are people who take some things too seriously here and betray those things associated with younger days but I still think the vast majority are reasonable people. It is at the proverbial end of the day just a Forum and it will be a broad church of opinions as in life and I have found Trainz to a great benefit especially when semi-regular health issues kick in. From here where I live, I have "met" people from across the world and enjoyed it all. As a judge there were things I didn't like regarding some folk who stood before me and life styles to frown on but one has to adopt a wide view regarding the good and bad. Do I sigh at some who post here? Yes. Do some frustrate? Yes. But none of it spoils my enjoyment of Trainz and my present project. Penultimately, there are words I remember from the school English class. "All the world's a stage and all the men and women in it merely players. They have the exits and their entrances and one man in his time plays many parts." I am sure this will apply also to Timothetoolman as he grows through life.

From the centre of the universe....Glasgow (!)
 
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