How much detali?

That said, is it better to stick with a few good textures than to have 100 in a mix?
I like to mix paint textures like grass, dirt, etc to make a more realistic look, but if having so many textures causes a performance hit, then I'll keep it down.

A few good anything is better than 100! 5 trees used 20 times each is better than 10 trees 10 times is better than 100 trees once. Ground textures can (in fact should) be as few as possible for the same reason. Blending, rotating and varying scale can make the same few textures go a long way. A dozen or so should be enough for any route!


Also, looking at my previous post, do you think my route with over 6,000 tiles is too big for any PC to handle, let alone for DLS?
I'm really starting to think about creating a really scaled down version right now, before I start detailing.

6000 tiles will probably be too big for the DLS default 20 meg limit on cdp's. However Auran have in the past put larger routes on the DLS, you need to contact Help Desk and arrange to send the route in on CD, or there are plenty of third party groups who will host routes provided they fall within group guidelines.

As for 6000 tiles being 'too big for any PC to handle', I say again - size doesn't matter....

Andy ;)
 
Its in Diskeeper.. its the technology that allows Diskeeper to run the background defrag.

Its supposed to watch and wait for the free resource rather than have it allocated by the OS. So if it needs access to the disk it waits until its idle before it uses it. Same goes for CPU/network etc. Hence Invisibile Multitasking.
Ok, That makes sense. Sometimes I just shut down DK alltogether while working in TRS.
Games like this should really have their own PC!! Nothing running at all.
But today, that's hard to accomplish, with most every game involving the Internet.

FW
 
A few good anything is better than 100! 5 trees used 20 times each is better than 10 trees 10 times is better than 100 trees once.

That makes a lot of sense!

An enormous route I have had on my computer since the early days of Trainz is Ultimate British Rail (which was updated a few times to become Ultimate British Rail 21 and has been customised with TRS2004 stations and TC3 signals recently. I have also changed signal boxes, traffic and added a loco depot or two!)

My computer has never stuttered or paused when running this route, no matter how long for! It's because, when it was created, apart from a very few "TafWeb" items, there was precious little content on the Download Station and the route builder had to make do with using the same items over and over again!

The repetition, however, does not spoil the route - you're never aware that the houses over the hill are the same ones you saw 10 miles previously!

"Grahams Mill" uses the same sort of tricks, so does "Rivendell" - no stuttering there either! Big Vern's Scottish routes also have no jerks or stutters, nor Glasgow to Falkirk or Glasgow to Oban!

PC railway modelling will always be a compromise (just as modelling with baseboard layouts was always a compromise), and striving to create the right atomsphere is far more important, to me, than photo-realistic accuracy!
 
Dermmy said "Running numerous trains on a large route has some hit on performance because the AI is keeping track of everything, not just what you can see. But that is just background number-crunching. The big performance hit in Traiz is video performance, and that comes back to content and detailing no matter how big the route or how many trainz are running out-of-screen.". This is true.In TRS2006 I experienced a problem where the screen started flashing, and someone suggested I might have too many trains on my route.I deleted most of them and the problem cleared.Also in TC3 the Settle and Carlisle route uses a large number of the 3 varieties of "Town Terrace 6" which have 2 smoking chimnies each.I have turned the smoke off and I think this improves frame rates.
 
I appreciate all the advice I am getting here. It'll really help me, since I'm just starting my huge route.
I have been going over the route removing baseboard tiles more than 2 away from the track, trying to get the file size down so it doesn't take so long to save.

I've also been told that removing unused textures (not sure about objects) from the map does not remove them from the config.txt file. I have to make sure I don't get 200 textures in there like I had with my last attempt at a big route.

This route is a prototype (as much as it can be), but I have to reach a compromise between reality and performance. Surely I'm not going to place every building and every road along the route.

I'm starting to wish that I hadn't started a prototype route, since I am restricted to what I can do with the terrain and scenery. I sometimes get a bit too obsessive about making it look just right, so I swing in the other direction and just "wing it". Does it really matter?
The model is what I want to make it. It may have started as a prototype, but what it ends up being is what I decide to make it. In any case, the track route will be prototype.

FW
 
Hi
Reading this post is very rewarding.
I have also started a large route using TransDEM. Fishgard to Swansea, S & W Wales. Out of curiosity, I loaded the complete Transdem files into 2006 (square map without cropping) just to see the Terrain effects (very impressive thanks to TD).
It resulted in a couple of thousand baseboards, which of course will be greatly cropped as I progress.
I don't see any future problems with frame rates, because most of the terrain is open farm-land, two average size towns and one city, the rest being small towns/hamlets. I intend to concentrate on industry (Milford Haven for example), and station areas for scenery.
In short, I don't think its the size of the route that's important, its the location of the route and the contents it requires. A few thousand miles of track in a desert wouldn't present any problems at all, except boredom:D .
Before I upload the route (quite a while yet) I intend to test it on a computer with just 1 Gb of ram and an average Graphic Card. Either my theory will prove correct or be turned on its head.
Cheers
Pete.
 
Hi!

Popped a query about similar problem I'm having in here last night but it disappeard for some reason!

Full horroe storey to be found in thread "upgrading to TRS2004/2006"

Any suggestions or is what's on that thread just a mnifestation of the same problem?

Cheers

Bista
 
Number of baseboards in my experience is what impacts the amount of time to save a route.

Frame rates are impacted by how much the computer has to draw. By the way the computer doesn't draw what is not within visual distance. For example on my Erie Route when in Wanaque-Midvale, Jersey City is not rendered so whatever is in Jersey City will not impact frame rates in Wanaque or Montclair for example


Howard
 
Number of baseboards in my experience is what impacts the amount of time to save a route.

Frame rates are impacted by how much the computer has to draw. By the way the computer doesn't draw what is not within visual distance. For example on my Erie Route when in Wanaque-Midvale, Jersey City is not rendered so whatever is in Jersey City will not impact frame rates in Wanaque or Montclair for example


Howard
Thanks for that info. I'll have to be careful not to 'over-populate' any particular area.
I'm currently working on the interlocking at West End and the tunnels.
I like the AJS tunnel kit, as it doesn't have the limitations of the standard TRS content.
Of course, as with anything else that is more flexible, it takes a bit more time to lay it out.

I'm not really looking forward to placing all of the catenary wires along the NJT routes, so I'll save them for last<g>.

FW
 
Number of baseboards in my experience is what impacts the amount of time to save a route.
Snip
Howard

True, but what really matters is what's on the baseboards, saving 50 baseboards with just a few trees (for example), wouldn't impact the save time, highly congested baseboards would.
Cheers
Pete.
 
In that light, I can't imaging what the save time for my 5,000+ baseboard map will be once I have a lot of it populated. Right now it's almost completely bare, except for the tracks, and it takes about 2 minutes to save.

FW
 
On the subject of performance, do you find DirectX or OpenGL to be best?
I was using OpenGL for a long time, but just now started having slowdown during placement of an AJS tunnel, so I shut down my AV, etc and it didn't make a diff.
When I switched to DirectX though, it seems smoother when moving splines.
And this is on a map with hardly any objectz.

FW
 
On the subject of performance, do you find DirectX or OpenGL to be best?
Snip
FW

I beleive it depends on your graphic card (although this is open for debate). Before I bought a new card I found DirectX to be the better option, but since I've installed the new card its OpenGL.
It also depends on your sliders, draw distance set to full is very demanding. What I tend to do is set everything on full at the start of construction (except daytime fog), and reduce them when/if the frame rate starts to decrease as I progress.
Of course, this means testing at various stages, which in my opinion is a good habit to get into.
Cheers
Pete.
 
The consensus of opinion seems to be that Objects are the cause of poor FS etc, so try to use Splines where possible.
H'mmm, I read here once that Splines in fact took up more resources than the equivalent single Objects. I can't remember who said it, but it was someone whose opinion I respect. So who knows?
Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
I hope you respect my opinion too Mick? There used to be a thread called "Trees And Grass vs FPS" and I'll bump it up.:(
 
I would think after 24 hours at Surveyor you'd have to de-fragment your brain as well!;)
Mick Berg.

Too true Mick, although it was a 14 and 10 hour stint (Who said 'Get a Life':hehe: ).
Quite a while since I heard from you, if I remember correctly, we started out in Gmax around the same time and I've still got your email in my address book (I forgot what that correspondent was about though.)
About Splines V Objects:confused: , surely a track would use more than a fence, and a Motorway/Freeway would use more than a road, but I think I'm correct in saying that a spline of Terraced Houses would use less than several single houses.
Again it depends on the object or the spline I guess, so its hard to generalise.
I know if I'm completely 'up a gum tree' with this, someone will correct me:) .
Cheers
Pete.
 
Considering that baseboards will eventually be populated, further increasing save time, I have begun an aggressive trimming of my map. There is no way I would ever finish the entire route as it stands anyway. I'm nearly 53 years old now, and would have to live for another 100 years to have a chance of completing it<g>.

I'm going through the route, making decisions on what I want/need to keep and what will go.
I favor industry over track mileage, so a 10 mile run of track with only a few industry will lose out to a congested area like Paterson NJ with it's industrial track (don't even know if that one is still in service).

I have become a bit over zealous in building this route, and I can blame it all on Transdem and Google Earth.
I had a lot of fun marking my route in GE and converting it in Transdem, I just wanted to go further and further from my original plan, which was Northern NJ to Selkirk NY.
As it stands, the run on the CSX Riverline from NJ to Selikrk is about 3 hours, 128 miles. There aren't many industry along that route though, so I needed to extend southward into Bayonne on the National Docs Secondary, and west into Newark and Paterson to get industry.

Somehow, New Jersey Transit got into the mix, and I have included Hoboken station, the light rail, and many of NJT's lines going west from Hoboken.
I've also included the NEC from where it comes across the Hudson to somewhere south of Newark Airport.

I don't have any idea of what kind of performance I will get if I attempt to run trains on all of these routes at once, but I have a suspicion that it will be very choppy.
That's why I've got to at least limit the number of baseboards, and chop the route a bit, so I don't have so many objectz on the route.
I started with 2 baseboards each side of the track, but am trimming it to between 1 and 2, depending on the area. Doesn't make sense to go two baseboards from trackside up in Campbell Hall, where you're in the middle of nowhere!

I suppose I could consider an upgrade of my video system. When I built my system, the BFG GEForce 6800 was the cutting edge, but now Nvidia is up to 8000 series I think, so I'm sure I could help TRS by upgrading.
The system already has 3G of DDR-2 RAM, so all I could do is add another 1G, but I would have to scrap two 1G modules to do so, and I'm not going to do that.

So, it looks like the only way to maintain a 'runable' Trainz route is to keep it to a reasonable size, and watch the objectz density.

Oh, there is one more thing. I could overclock both my video and CPU.
With the Asus P5AD2E Premium mobo and the BFG video card, I have the option to overclock.
The BFG came overclocked right out of the box, and I think I have AI overclocking turned on for the Asus board. I didn't want to play around with these things, since there is the possibility of burning something out, or at least creating an unstable system.
That said, I may take a trip over to the over-clocking forum and see what I can find out.

Lastly, I have to say that Trainz has been the only computer 'game' I play regularly for years, and considering the cost of TRS2006, and the anticipated cost of TS2009, it remains the most fun for my buck.
I don't think of Trainz as a game, but more like a way of life. When I'm building a route, especially this prototype route, it isn't a game at all. It's as though I'm building a prototype railroad. That's one reason I tend to over-populate scenery objectz. I want it to look as close to the real thing as possible.

Maybe my next step would be to get into GMAX, and start creating some of my own content from buildings, etc along the route. I don't see much in the way of objectz from New Jersey on DLS, so I'm sure it would be appreciated.

FW
 
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