How much detali?

[Mick_Berg]

I hope you respect my opinion too Mick? There used to be a thread called "Trees And Grass vs FPS" and I'll bump it up.

Of course I do, Lewisner, and I apologise for a badly worded post. And I agree, you'd think splines would be the better choice. Wouldn't a test route confirm it? Make two identical simple routes, populate one with spline objects, and the other with the equivalent single objects, and compare the frame rates.
Thanks,
Mick Berg.

 

[Mick_Berg]

I believe that splines require more processing power for the same number of polys, so they can slow down things a bit. They do tend to disappear closer to the viewer (depending on your settings), so they could have a little less impact in that respect. Most spline buildings (I say most advisedly) tend to be a bit lower poly than the static versions by design (compare tafweb's equivalent spline and object models), and this will give some advantage using splines.
So, six of one and half a dozen of the other...
Paul

That's the post I was thinking of. The thread was started by me, called "Tilted Houses". It seems that the net implication of Paul's post is that splines in the end take less resources, so I withdraw, yer 'onour. Anyone fancy a pint?
Mick Berg.

 

[Mick_Berg]

Maybe my next step would be to get into GMAX, and start creating some of my own content from buildings, etc along the route.
FW

Absolutely you should do that. gMax (or one of the other modelling programs) is challenging at first, but the rewards are tremendous. When I'm working on my route, I sometimes get so absorbed into it that I start to think I am back there, where I grew up, fifty years ago! That's partly due to the fairly accurate models I have made in gMax. And of course, the great work of all the Trainz content creators.
Mick Berg.

 

[lewisner]

Mines a Staropramen Mick In TC3 there are vast numbers of "Town Terrace 6" including the variation which has no backyard.If you take a 4 house row of "Terrace 04 Spline" EVEN IF they were similar in polys TT6 has 2 smoking chimnies per row and even though I am no expert on such things it seems to me that all that animated smoke (and lights if they have them) must be a drag on your PCs power? In TRS2006 my route typically had on the trackside - 2 Tracks , 2 Fences , 1 Telegraph spline, 1 Signal wire spline.But things only took a downturn when I discovered JVC Fireweed (Objects) and started planting it all over the place - then my FPS took a dive!

 

[Mick_Berg]

Mines a Staropramen Mick ..... 2 smoking chimnies per row and even though I am no expert on such things it seems to me that all that animated smoke (and lights if they have them) must be a drag on your PCs power?

There's a thread on this too. The smoking chimneys take a lot of power. I made clones of the houses with smoke, removed the smoke by editing the config file, and then only placed smoking houses every tenth one or so.
I think it looks better. With every house smoking it all starts to look like something out of Charles Dickens..........

Enough! that's my post quota for today!

Mick Berg.

 

[lewisner]

Theres a thread on Staropramen ? :mop: I took the easy way out and instead of cloning the Terraces I opened the existing ones and deleted the smoke.If I want any of them to smoke I will stick a "Chimney Smoke" Object in the chimney..

 

[Approach_Medium]

Funny things happen after a while...
I started clocking the saves in TRS to my HDD (I always save with a new filename), and found that disk defragmenting (Diskeeper 2008) makes a big difference if I do it just before I start each session of TRS. The other thing I noticed is that after I have opened, modified, and saved the route, save times start to drop a bit. I'm sure this is due to caching by TRS.
There is a huge cache file, and for a very short time I was thinking of archiving some of those files, but decided to keep them there, since I don't know what TRS needs when.

I have found also, that I cannot use CMP's Archive feature. When I try to do so, I am given an error; my .gnd file is too big. But when I re-installed the archived route, it did so without error. Perhaps some of the content didn't get onto the archive, and since it's already installed there was no issue.
I have adopted a new archive procedure, which is basically manually copying the files from the editing folder (when the asset is open for edit), to a backup location, then deleting the asset in CMP.
I have tested this, and there are no issues. I like to keep lots of backups of previous versions of my route... you never know.
I'm also burning them to DVD every so often.

I also made some changes to my system (Windows XP Pro).
I eliminated the swapfile, and it seems to have boosted performance noticeably, not just in TRS, but with all my apps.
I have 3G RAM, so I guess it's enough to run Windows without the swapfile.
I recall reading in one of the tekkie forums about this, and sometimes it boosts performance.

Finally, I found that by removing baseboards from my Transdem generated map, I have lost or moved my world origin, so I cannot create UTM tiles from Transdem anymore.
That's OK though. I used them mostly when I was building the route in Transdem, and find them a bit awkward now that I've got all the tracks in the right place.
This would have been a disaster if I had not drawn the entire route in Transdem with Polylines, then created track splines for TRS, as I would then have had no way of knowing exactly where to put the tracks in TRS!!

As for GMAX, I assume that one uses a digital camera to get photos of the objects, then imports the photos into GMAX and work with them to create the object?
I'll have to look at it someday. I would like to get a lot further along in grading, placing bridges, paint texture, etc before I get into that.

In any case, it's really been a fun day of Trainz!

FW

 

[MetroNorthFan]

I generally don't even add more than 1 block (landscape extension) from the track fence. Detailing further away, when you can "channel" line through a narrow passage by adding tree splines, hills, fences and objects, running the line throught the occasional cutting or tunnel - various ways I have found, you can use to limit the amount of detailing and scenery when it isn't really needed. And a good thing too because I find that stuff very time consuming, or at least the unnecessarily exacting standards I do layouts to.

Just curious, like the OP, I have an older graphics card, a 6800GS, I wonder if I would get better video performace with a newer card like a Radeon HD 4850? Or is the graphics engine only capable of doing so much on any hardware?

 

[geophil]

Finally, I found that by removing baseboards from my Transdem generated map, I have lost or moved my world origin, so I cannot create UTM tiles from Transdem anymore.
That's OK though. I used them mostly when I was building the route in Transdem, and find them a bit awkward now that I've got all the tracks in the right place.
This would have been a disaster if I had not drawn the entire route in Transdem with Polylines, then created track splines for TRS, as I would then have had no way of knowing exactly where to put the tracks in TRS!!

Nothing is lost.

See the TransDEM Trainz manual, page 48, "Tutorial 3: Adding a World Origin Object to a route."

 

[2stepsteve]

Just curious, like the OP, I have an older graphics card, a 6800GS, I wonder if I would get better video performace with a newer card like a Radeon HD 4850? Or is the graphics engine only capable of doing so much on any hardware?

It would greatly improve performance the 6800GS is quite a slow card, the 4850 is a right fast bargin right now for around the £100 mark nothing comes close.

 

[scorpio48]

Hi fwassner,
Going back a few threads, I fully understand the possibility of 'Going Overboard' when using TransDEM, I done it myself quite recently.
I think it comes down to the following:-
When I create a life-like route the most boring part for me was getting the Terrain correct, especially in a Mountainous, hilly terrain. As TD doe's this for you (extremely well I might add) it takes out the boring, repetitive work of creating a route.
Of course when it comes to filling the terrain with track, roads Etc. Its only then we realise, and the OOPS! word comes out.
Like you fwassner, I have less years ahead of me than behind (unless I live to 120 ).
About Gmax. It's a very rewarding to see the photographs of various buildings come to life in your route, and I enjoy it tremendously, but you have to remember it will at least, double the amount of time it takes to finish your creation.
Finally, do as much cropping as possible in TransDEM before exporting, this will save you loosing your world origin from the route.
Cheers
Pete.

 

[Approach_Medium]

Nothing is lost.

See the TransDEM Trainz manual, page 48, "Tutorial 3: Adding a World Origin Object to a route."

Thanks for the help. I'll try that, although I have had mixed results when trying to 'repair' the WO. Perhaps adding one will work.

FW

 

[Approach_Medium]

It would greatly improve performance the 6800GS is quite a slow card, the 4850 is a right fast bargin right now for around the £100 mark nothing comes close.

Funny how the ref points keep rising, and our once cutting edge hardware becomes 'slow'.
Trainz is the only app that puts high demands on my system, and for now I am getting decent frame rates in Driver. I'll have to see how it works on my route as I build, and try to keep frame rates high.

The sad part is that I once paid over $500 for my 6800 card. But then, that's life in the tek world<g>

FW

 

[Approach_Medium]

Scorpio48;
From what Geophil said, there is a way to restore a lost WO. I have to read the Transdem manual, but I would figure it involves finding the exact coordinates of someplace on the route that you can ID in TRS, then placing the WO there, and typing in the exact numbers, and finally, doing same in Transdem. I'll have to read the manual.

Actually, I'm hoping that I have more years ahead of me than behind. I plan to live to 128 !
128 is the last milepost on the CSX (fka Conrail, fka Penn Central, fka New York Central) Riverline (fka West Shore Line) before it runs into CPSK and enters the yard as Selkirk NY.
Ever since I was a teen, I followed the line, watching trains, and hanging out with the train crews when they were stopped in Teaneck NJ on the passing track waiting, often hours for traffic to clear.
I have always 'associated' my birthdays with mileposts on the line.
I'm at 52 now, which is Cornwall on the Hudson, 3 miles south of Newburg NY.
Perhaps I should have made a habit of going to the milepost that matches my age on my birthday, and watching trains all day.
I've never done that, but maybe on my 53rd, I will. Problem is, the line isn't near any public property in that area.

OTOH, I enjoyed my 48th on the summit of Algonquin Mtn, the 2nd highest peak in NY, in the dead of winter. Didn't see any trains up there<g>

FW

 

[Approach_Medium]

Nothing is lost.

See the TransDEM Trainz manual, page 48, "Tutorial 3: Adding a World Origin Object to a route."

I just read page 48 of the TransDem manual. It says to open ALL of the Geo-referenced maps that were used to create the original route.

For my route, that would be impossible. My computer does not have enough RAM, & CPU to perform such a monumental task.
The problem: The route is so big, that it took several hundred geo-ref maps at 250m eye alt in GE to create it.

I think I'll leave well enough alone, and wing the trackside scenery. It doesn't bother me that a river, station, etc will be 100 yards off from where it is supposed to be.
My track is all in place, and that is what is most important to me.

FW

 

[geophil]

No, you don't need to open all the map and image resources. That's good for small routes only. The basic idea is to locate an appropriate spot where to create a new single-baseboard route which is adjacent to one of the baseboards in the existing route. This should be somewhere near the centre of your route.

As long as you remain in the same UTM zone all baseboards will have the same 720m alignment. Load your route in Surveyor and load a few images/maps in TransDEM. Navigate to a suitable area by comparing the scenes in Surveyor and TransDEM. Switch on the baseboard raster in TransDEM, drag a rectangular mask around that single baseboard you picked and create the new route.

 

[Mick_Berg]

Running numerous trains on a large route has some hit on performance because the AI is keeping track of everything, not just what you can see.
Andy

How nice it would be if that were true......................
Mick Berg

 

[Mick_Berg]

Theres a thread on Staropramen ? :mop: I took the easy way out and instead of cloning the Terraces I opened the existing ones and deleted the smoke.If I want any of them to smoke I will stick a "Chimney Smoke" Object in the chimney..

Well, I'm not sure that that's the easy way out, as if you make a smoke-free clone you only have to do it once, and then you have two Terraces, one smoking and the other smoke-free. But OTOH your method allows for more random placement of smoking chimneys, and random is always a good thing in creating scenery.
Mick Berg.
PS Can you get Staropramen in Los Angeles?

 

[lewisner]

Mick, the cloning method is fine but it means that all the existing chimnies will still be smoking! Its easier do delete the existing smoke and then add it if you want it, which I don't. I dunno if you can get Staropramen in L.A. but I did manage to get a decent bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale in New York near the Brooklyn Bridge a few years ago...

 

[Approach_Medium]

No, you don't need to open all the map and image resources. That's good for small routes only. The basic idea is to locate an appropriate spot where to create a new single-baseboard route which is adjacent to one of the baseboards in the existing route. This should be somewhere near the centre of your route.

As long as you remain in the same UTM zone all baseboards will have the same 720m alignment. Load your route in Surveyor and load a few images/maps in TransDEM. Navigate to a suitable area by comparing the scenes in Surveyor and TransDEM. Switch on the baseboard raster in TransDEM, drag a rectangular mask around that single baseboard you picked and create the new route.

Thanks Geophil; I'll give that a try.

FW