Dovetail - N3V 1 : 0

[PortLineParker]

I believe that proper dampers and steamcocks could be done as well, though I take it the steam physics are mostly finished.

As it's not me developing the specs I couldn't say, although with the level of detail that has gone into researching these figures I would be surprised if they were doable and hadn't been spotted by now. Whether or not they could be replicated would be an interesting question though and one that I shall ask!

Cheers,

PLP

 

[EverTrainz]

I would be surprised if they were doable and hadn't been spotted by now.

Ah I was moreso referring to the TNI interface. I’m almost fully confident it wouldn’t be possible with the vanilla physics. Zec has some of the most advanced steam locos Trainz has ever seen and he’s said it’s not possible. It would have to be external/TNI.

 

[ess1]

One thing that has always bugged me about the million MSTS offshoots (TSW, Railworks, TSC, TSW17, Dovetail's whatever) is how dark, soulless and miserable their graphics engine is. It looks great at first glance and then when you start looking at things you notice how flat and poor everything really looks.

Maybe England is just dark, soulless and miserable? Parts of the UK Trainz community makes me think that's just their entire persona in England (to be fair, I'd be pretty miserable too if I sent off our convicts to paradise and stayed in England too ).

Trainz has a lot of faults and a new skybox is sorely needed, but man, I really hate the suggestions saying we should emulate something that already doesn't look good lol

All my family live abroad and are innocent guv.

 

[ess1]

Bashing Brits is the national sport down here in Oz

...and whinging is ours.

 

[PortLineParker]

Ah I was moreso referring to the TNI interface. I’m almost fully confident it wouldn’t be possible with the vanilla physics. Zec has some of the most advanced steam locos Trainz has ever seen and he’s said it’s not possible. It would have to be external/TNI.

That makes sense, it would be fantastic if a TNI plugin ever came to fruition - perhaps one day!

 

[JCitron]

One thing that has always bugged me about the million MSTS offshoots (TSW, Railworks, TSC, TSW17, Dovetail's whatever) is how dark, soulless and miserable their graphics engine is. It looks great at first glance and then when you start looking at things you notice how flat and poor everything really looks.

Maybe England is just dark, soulless and miserable? Parts of the UK Trainz community makes me think that's just their entire persona in England (to be fair, I'd be pretty miserable too if I sent off our convicts to paradise and stayed in England too ).

Trainz has a lot of faults and a new skybox is sorely needed, but man, I really hate the suggestions saying we should emulate something that already doesn't look good lol

At least your ancestors were sent to a warm and sunny tropical place. Mine were sent across the cold Atlantic to a place that's just as dreary with fog, drizzle, and cold for 9-months out of the year. They didn't call it New England for nothing.

 

[amigacooke]

At least your ancestors were sent to a warm and sunny tropical place. Mine were sent across the cold Atlantic to a place that's just as dreary with fog, drizzle, and cold for 9-months out of the year. They didn't call it New England for nothing.

Looks good in the Fall though I understand.

 

[JCitron]

Looks good in the Fall though I understand.

It sure does. ;-)

 

[AFdude06]

One thing that has always bugged me about the million MSTS offshoots (TSW, Railworks, TSC, TSW17, Dovetail's whatever) is how dark, soulless and miserable their graphics engine is. It looks great at first glance and then when you start looking at things you notice how flat and poor everything really looks.

Maybe England is just dark, soulless and miserable? Parts of the UK Trainz community makes me think that's just their entire persona in England (to be fair, I'd be pretty miserable too if I sent off our convicts to paradise and stayed in England too ).

Trainz has a lot of faults and a new skybox is sorely needed, but man, I really hate the suggestions saying we should emulate something that already doesn't look good lol

I think the issue in that case is TSW is locked to Unreal Engine 4. Lot of users have been wanting the game to be moved to UE5, but because of compatibility issues with the game content they currently don't plan to (quite the same reason Trainz is stuck with its current engine). If that game was ever moved to UE5 the difference would be large. UE4 is really outdated now, and current Unreal games are unparalleled for visual fidelity for the most part.

 

[JimDep]

Looks good in the Fall though I understand.

It SURE does !

 

[Paulsw2]

I look forward to Trainz developing newer and better features with better graphics, not more historically accurate locos.

Yeah, because I'm really motivated to create routes with fabulous trees and crap trains. Can we ask that the wheels actually rotate on these trains or is that too 'historically accurate' for you? And god forbid they should have an accurate livery as opposed to something that's been cartoonishly sketched-in. All as long as its featured in a brilliantly-lit, gorgeous landscape. Because 'features' are so important aren't they, so much more so than mere trains!

 

[Paulsw2]

Now I’ll sit back and wait for N3V’s contract modeler to create all 2000 variants of the Class 47 to impeccable detail and accuracy …

Well, so far he's created precisely one variant that scarcely anyone can use. (I feel sure @pware will be here imminently to assure us that it doesn't matter that this version of the class 47 has no prototypical use outside of 2006 because what matters is "newer and better features with better graphics, not more historically accurate locos" so thank god for that!)

 

[pware]

Can we ask that the wheels actually rotate on these trains or is that too 'historically accurate' for you?

Nonsense. Wheel rotation is an animation issue, not a matter of the correct number of rivets in the correct places.

accurate livery as opposed to something that's been cartoonishly sketched-in

I have seen many an example of "cartoonish" liveries on real trains (and aircraft for that matter). Liveries can change as often as underwear.

Because 'features' are so important aren't they, so much more so than mere trains!

Yes they are important. The "rivet counters" who insist on authentically accurate rolling stock will not keep N3V, or Dovetail, in business unless they have very deep pockets. It is the younger generation, many of who will play Trainz on their mobile devices (horror!!!) and not on PCs (that is why the mobile gaming market is now bigger than the PC gaming market) and who could not tell what a Class 47 is (I can't and don't care that I can't either), that is where the market is and they, like in everything else they do, want new features and better graphics and don't care about history.

I feel sure @pware will be here imminently to assure us that it doesn't matter that this version of the class 47 has no prototypical use outside of 2006

You got that right but I have no opinions on its prototypical uses outside of anything.

But each to their own. I am a route builder and I while I try to use rolling stock that was typical of the era represented I really don't care what rolling stock users add to my routes or if it is historically accurate or not.

For example: I have a standard gauge loco (of the right period) running on narrow gauge tracks because the NG version (which did exist) is not available on the DLS. But even @S301 does a similar thing in at least one of his DLC routes. Users can even add Thomas and Friends to my routes if they want. Would you ban TTTE assets as being "too cartoonish"?

To me Trainz is a hobby, not an obsession. A game (sorry to offend the purists with the "G" word) to be enjoyed, not to get stressed over.

My opinions and I am always happy to see the views of others.

 

[johnwhelan]

Yes they are important. The "rivet counters" who insist on authentically accurate rolling stock will not keep N3V, or Dovetail, in business unless they have very deep pockets. It is the younger generation, many of who will play Trainz on their mobile devices (horror!!!) and not on PCs (that is why the mobile gaming market is now bigger than the PC gaming market) and who could not tell what a Class 47 is (I can't and don't care that I can't either), that is where the market is and they, like in everything else they do, want new features and better graphics and don't care about history.

There are pros and cons about rivet counters, some have deep pockets and commission unique physical models but it doesn't quite work that way in Trainz. I think a group of OO modelers have got together to commission a run of a seven plank PO wagon for a mere £34.95 a wagon. It uses a standard body.

For most of us it's a hobby and imagination is a very cheap way to add rivets. Rivet counters are useful on the research side which still takes up thirty percent of the time it takes to create something new but I don't think the majority of Trainz users really care too much about accuracy. I know the springs on most of my wagons are not accurate, but they are approximately correct which is close enough and there have been enough downloads of my work and reskins of my work to demonstrate that and occasionally one will pick up on something wrong that can be easily corrected.

John

 

[Therock]

Rivet counters are useful on the research side which still takes up thirty percent of the time it takes to create something new

I wish I only spent 30% of my time on any given project having to do research

 

[stovepipe]

"Each to their own" unless you have an alternate view when pware has to robustly defend his viewpoint..... again.

For someone who loudly professes to not caring about prototype, you do seem to have a lot of reskins of one loco with just a different number. Now why would you bother doing that? I think maybe your favourite thing about Trainz is getting into a tussle.

 

[EverTrainz]

I wish I only spent 30% of my time on any given project having to do research

When it comes to older/obscure locos and rolling stock research tends to eat up more than half the time!

After looking at the TNI Physics plugin capabilities I should say this is essentially what DTG TS has available to creators - it’s technically possible to have advanced physics scripting in Trainz, it’s just a matter of taking advantage of it.

You would need to do more than just create an enginespec though, since the main scriptwork goes something like:

Throttle -> (content creator accounts for all the calculations between throttle to RPM/governor to generator to motors) -> Force applied at wheels

I’d assume a vacuum simulation is also possible with intricate variables such as brake pad thickness/efficiency, or “pinning” brakes on unfitted wagons, but I don’t think this was a serious problem to begin with apart from “vacuum” parameters not showing up on the HUD - this may be able to be scripted as well

Link:

TNI Physics Interface - TrainzOnline

online.ts2009.com

 

[pware]

For someone who loudly professes to not caring about prototype, you do seem to have a lot of reskins of one loco with just a different number. Now why would you bother doing that?

A reasonable assumption. The reasons for the multiple reskins of the one loco (the SAR T class and tender) were-

1. The route I had created was the South Australian Railways Northern (Peterborough) Narrow Gauge Division which finally closed in the late 1980s. I wanted to use locos and rolling stock that was typical of that era and that gauge, but they did not have to be 100% accurate - my sessions for the route use period rolling stock from other states and systems that never saw any service on the SAR.
2. The original loco, as found on the DLS (and reskinned with kind permission from the creator) looked like it had just rolled out of the paint shop. Shiny black surface, all clean and gleaming. Not at all suitable for a working loco that had been in heavy use for around 40 years. So I created a "dirty" skin with some rust and repair patches.
3. I needed many copies (it was the most commonly used loco in the SAR narrow gauge system from 1917 to the 1960s with 78 of them built - I did my research!) but that particular asset build could not be updated to work with the autonumbering system (and I did not know how to do that anyway) so I created a number of different paint options - a set of dirty textures with some rust for the loco body, tender, buffers, and I added some repaint patches that resembled repair work, etc. And then added the running numbers. All of these could be combined in different ways to create a wide range of "skins" for both the locos and the tenders. Some of those locos I created as non-functional to be used waiting in the depot to be "fired up" or on display in a plinth in a park somewhere.

Was any of that work historically accurate? No idea but probably not. But at least I had a lot of fun doing it and learned a great deal about reskinning which I, sadly, have not put to use since.

Having fun is why I use Trainz, not to be "historically accurate".

"Each to their own" unless you have an alternate view when pware has to robustly defend his viewpoint..... again.

I encourage everyone to put forward their point of view. Isn't that what the forum is all about? And are we not entitled to present arguments for the positions we take?

Putting forward a point of view does not make any of us right or wrong.

I think maybe your favourite thing about Trainz is getting into a tussle.

In real life I avoid "tussles" - perhaps it is the safety and anonymity of sitting behind a keyboard and a screen that lets me "break out".

If someone puts forward a point of view that I don't agree with I feel the need to respond (politely I hope). I have no problems with valid criticisms but there are posts putting forward claims that, in my opinion at least, are exaggerations or read like conspiracy theories. Some are based on mistaken assumptions, misunderstandings and lack of information (for that reason I also created wiki pages). I attempt to correct these or put forward alternatives and I have no doubt that that annoys some. But the alternative is to let these mistaken assumptions and misunderstandings stand and that can mean that the loudest negative voices win.

But thank you for posting your views on these matters. I enjoyed the discussion.

 

[amigacooke]

I enjoyed the discussion.

You enjoyed the 'tussle'

 

[amigacooke]

It's really not that expensive to get into TSW5 at sale time.

Not advertising so no prices or links.