Coal dust - hype or what?

[schweitzerdude]

I have seen increased numbers of westbound coal trains on the BNSF (mainline northern Idaho, USA) for export to China. My view is anything we can sell to China is a plus for the USA.

Yesterday I'm reading the local newspaper and there is an opposition movement to coal trains, partly due to coal dust fears. I believe this is bogus because the railways have learned (I think I read it in Trains Magazine) that coal dust is destructive to the railbed and therefore they require some sort of anti-dust chemical to be sprayed onto loaded gondola cars. Also, I live across the road from BNSF and if anyone would have seen coal dust, it would be me, and I have not.

Anyone with more specifics might help me to write an editorial to the local newspaper disputing these fears.

 

[JCitron]

I have seen increased numbers of westbound coal trains on the BNSF (mainline northern Idaho, USA) for export to China. My view is anything we can sell to China is a plus for the USA.

Yesterday I'm reading the local newspaper and there is an opposition movement to coal trains, partly due to coal dust fears. I believe this is bogus because the railways have learned (I think I read it in Trains Magazine) that coal dust is destructive to the railbed and therefore they require some sort of anti-dust chemical to be sprayed onto loaded gondola cars. Also, I live across the road from BNSF and if anyone would have seen coal dust, it would be me, and I have not.

Anyone with more specifics might help me to write an editorial to the local newspaper disputing these fears.

Good luck fighting the NIMBYs. Once they get some bee in their bonnet, you're stuck fighting a battle!

Use your Trains magazine as a reference as well as the railroad its self. Contact whoever is involved in shipping the coal and tell them what's going on and what you plan to do. Perhaps they can help supply the facts as well.

John

 

[sparky15]

Don't tell them they use a chemical! Double melt down!

I believe they just changed how they load the cars to prevent dust.

Good luck. Remember, these are the same people requiring HAZMAT response plans and equipment for dairy farms.

Dave.......

 

[sniper297]

What's really amusing is the number of people willing to sign the petition to ban the dangerous chemical dihydrogen monoxide without investigating what it was. :hehe:

 

[mattm]

What's really amusing is the number of people willing to sign the petition to ban the dangerous chemical dihydrogen monoxide without investigating what it was. :hehe:

Oh, dear god!

Please tell me you are kidding, and there wasn't actually a petition to ban that substance. Or if there was, that it was a joke on the part of the people collecting signatures.

People are STUPID!!

Matt.

 

[sparky15]

Don't forget the EPA are going after farmers who bale hay as well. After making them get a CDL to drive tractors in the field.

Dave.......

 

[sniper297]

I wasn't kidding, the kids were;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax

 

[big_b]

I worked in the Underground Coal Industry for over 30yrs dust & explosions are a big problem when cutting it. Thats why there are so many water sprays on the cutting equipment as well as every where up to loading onto rail.The biggest problem we had was coal that was too wet which would sump on loading ( open the loading bin doors & the storage bin would have a bad case of diarrhea )& bury the hopper under the bin.
If it was too dry the hoppers passed under a series of water spray bridges as they moved off wetting the load down.
I have never heard of dust being a problem during transport to the port only once it was there & stock piled waiting for loading onto ships.Again water sprays which can be manually operated or automatic depending on wind direction & speed.

Dave

 

[cascaderailroad]

Coal Dust ... Watch this video !

Coal Dust: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjhnhZ0mFb4
Flat spots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT2DXO_xcU8&feature=related
Smoky Startup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOj6gPwkiXg&feature=related

 

[mezzoprezzo]

Hey cascade, that first video is amazing.

My wife has just said, “That’s not real is it? That’s Trainz. The track looks too clean”.

Great to see good use of “black smoke”, plus Dinorius_Redundicus’ derelict items and Jankvis’ yellow flowers in the foreground.:hehe:

Casper

 

[bendorsey]

Are you sure that coal is going to China? It was my understanding one of the reasons they kept building steam locos for so long after everyone else stopped was because they had vast reserves of coal.

Ben

 

[kws4000]

Last time I heard (a long time ago), (i think) they were opening a new coal-fired power plant every week. In the economic slump, who knows?

 

[jadebullet]

The "chemical" they usually spray onto the coal to keep it from dusting is water.

Trust me, there are towns where everything will get a fine layer of coal dust on stuff just by being there, train or no train. (I am looking at you Tamaqua) It is pretty much harmless unless you are breathing in vast quantities of it. (Black lung)

 

[mattm]

Are you sure that coal is going to China? It was my understanding one of the reasons they kept building steam locos for so long after everyone else stopped was because they had vast reserves of coal.

Ben

Ben,

I was browsing through a recent edition of Trains magazine at my local library the other week, and there was an article about the increase in coal exports, to markets such as Asia, due to events like the Queensland floods, which have effected supply from these areas, which has resulted in the American market picking up a lot of slack.

Edit: Not the trains article, but says the same thing:

One short-term factor driving up US coal exports in 2011 was extensive flooding in Australia that delayed coking coal shipments to Asian countries for steel production.[3] But this is only the beginning, industry analysts say.

Article here: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._coal_exports

2nd edit: Queensland Spurs U.S. Coal Exports to 15-Year High

Matt.

 

[big_b]

A lot of collieries in my area are being bought by some Indian guy who sends all the coal to his businesses in India whatever they are. Been buying all the pits BHP closed down & a few others & reworking them.Money dosen't seem to be an object just needs the coal as much as he can get.He's even putting in new longwalls & other equipment.
The last pit I worked at was supposed to last about 20yrs with longwall. BHP pulled out after 6yrs uneconomical to run & bad conditions.This guy's been there since 1999 & still going strong with no sign of stopping.

 

[schweitzerdude]

I believe the coal is going to China

I asked a neighbor (who is a train buff) and that is what he told me when I asked why we are seeing coal trains recently on the BNSF when we didn't a year or two ago. I did some googling and there are plans for coal export docks in both Longview and Bellingham, Washington USA, and there is opposition (of course) and I'm not sure they are operational yet.

There is no doubt that the USA is exporting coal to China, as is Australia. According to one source (about a year old) the US exports go across the Pacific via Canada. So BNSF could be hauling it to Everett and then north to somewhere near Vancouver. To bendorsey: China has been a net coal importer since 2009, despite their coal reserves, according to the article.

Here is the article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/22/science/earth/22fossil.html?pagewanted=all

The NYTimes article mentions opposition exists in Australia to coal exports as well.

 

[JCitron]

What's interesting is nobody complained years ago when everything ran on coal. Steam locomotives burned the stuff, belched black smoke all over the place. People burned coal in their homes and business for heat, and it's been used for the steel and chemical industry for years.

And... People seem to "love" steam locomotives that blow out black smoke! If you haven't noticed when the there's a rail show, rail fan trip, or museum running a steam train.

What are the people up in Washington state complaining about? By the time the coal reaches them, there won't be any dust!

John

 

[cascaderailroad]

Coal is pulverized to a fine powder today, for spraying into high tech furnace boilers, a century ago coal was in varrious size graded lumps.

Altoona & Pittsburgh was at one time a completely coal smoke filled town, and snow was not white there at all !

 

[schweitzerdude]

To JCitron: the opposition to the coal trains per our local paper

1. Is to coal dust: Bogus and not the real concern.

2. Increased rail traffic - we average 35 freights/day on BNSF (Sandpoint-Bonners Ferry), more than half are container/intermodal, not all that many coal trains: Bogus and not the real concern.

Of course, the real reason for the opposition to coal exports (I believe this is true of opposition not only in the USA but in Australia) is global warming, as if the USA didn't burn coal here, and as if the USA didn't sell coal to China, they would do without coal somehow.

 

[JCitron]

1. Is to coal dust: Bogus and not the real concern.

2. Increased rail traffic - we average 35 freights/day on BNSF (Sandpoint-Bonners Ferry), more than half are container/intermodal, not all that many coal trains: Bogus and not the real concern.

Of course, the real reason for the opposition to coal exports (I believe this is true of opposition not only in the USA but in Australia) is global warming, as if the USA didn't burn coal here, and as if the USA didn't sell coal to China, they would do without coal somehow.

I figured this is a part of it too, but the NIMBYs will use any other excuse to fight railroads anyway.

I wonder if they'd like trucks of coal going through their towns instead.


John